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Does God invoke FEAR in anyone anymore?

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chris777

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I don't think, fear in the gospels, is "fear" in the sense that we commonly define it. It's defiently not fear of punishment. I think it's more like a fear of dissapointing God. It's definetly not a fear of God's wrath. But more so the fear of leaving the love of God, fear of leaving his presence. The same as we have fear, of disspointing our wife, or children. It's a deeper sense of fear, but not "fear" in the way that we know it.

Because I know, I don't have a "fear" of god, in the sense that I am scared of going to hell, or that he will strike me dead tommorow. I have no fear of his wrath. I don't talk to god, in a formal manner, I perform no rituals, I don't pray for a "good" life, a "good" job, I take my lot and I'm content with it, if he takes it all tommorow, I am still content with it. In this sense, I cannot have a fear of God, because there is nothing he can do, that makes me "fear" him, in the way we commonly refer to "fear".

If you tell me, I am to be scared of the god you believe in, then I have to say I don't believe in your God. Because I love my Lord, and in this Love, there is no fear.

Matt 10:28
28] And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.
luke 12:
[4] And I say unto you my friends, Be not afraid of them that kill the body, and after that have no more that they can do.
[5] But I will forewarn you whom ye shall fear: Fear him, which after he hath killed hath power to cast into hell; yea, I say unto you, Fear him.
What word would you replace fear with in these 2 verses?

And what of the following verses

what would be a more appropriate word than terror in
in the following verses
2 Cor 5:
[9] Wherefore we labour, that, whether present or absent, we may be accepted of him.
[10] For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.
[11] Knowing therefore the terror of the Lord, we persuade men; but we are made manifest unto God; and I trust also are made manifest in your consciences.
[12] For we commend not ourselves again unto you, but give you occasion to glory on our behalf, that ye may have somewhat to answer them which glory in appearance, and not in heart.
[13] For whether we be beside ourselves, it is to God: or whether we be sober, it is for your cause.
[14] For the love of Christ constraineth us; because we thus judge, that if one died for all, then were all dead:


and Rom 11 offers more food for thought
13] For I speak to you Gentiles, inasmuch as I am the apostle of the Gentiles, I magnify mine office:
[14] If by any means I may provoke to emulation them which are my flesh, and might save some of them.
[15] For if the casting away of them be the reconciling of the world, what shall the receiving of them be, but life from the dead?
[16] For if the firstfruit be holy, the lump is also holy: and if the root be holy, so are the branches.
[17] And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, wert graffed in among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree;
[18] Boast not against the branches. But if thou boast, thou bearest not the root, but the root thee.
[19] Thou wilt say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be graffed in.
[20] Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear:
[21] For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.
[22] Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.
[23] And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be graffed in: for God is able to graff them in again.
[24] For if thou wert cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and wert graffed contrary to nature into a good olive tree: how much more shall these, which be the natural branches, be graffed into their own olive tree?

More examples
Phil 2:
[12] Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.

Heb 10:
[26] For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,
[27] But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.
[28] He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses:
[29] Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?
[30] For we know him that hath said, Vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people.
[31] It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.

Heb 12:
[23] To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect,
[24] And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel.
[25] See that ye refuse not him that speaketh. For if they escaped not who refused him that spake on earth, much more shall not we escape, if we turn away from him that speaketh from heaven:
[26] Whose voice then shook the earth: but now he hath promised, saying, Yet once more I shake not the earth only, but also heaven.
[27] And this word, Yet once more, signifieth the removing of those things that are shaken, as of things that are made, that those things which cannot be shaken may remain.
[28] Wherefore we receiving a kingdom which cannot be moved, let us have grace, whereby we may serve God acceptably with reverence and godly fear:
[29] For our God is a consuming fire.

It is a deception to remove the fear from God, of our own accord
 
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hithesh

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Matt 10:28
28] And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.
luke 12:
[4] And I say unto you my friends, Be not afraid of them that kill the body, and after that have no more that they can do.
[5] But I will forewarn you whom ye shall fear: Fear him, which after he hath killed hath power to cast into hell; yea, I say unto you, Fear him.
What word would you replace fear with in these 2 verses?



Who cast who into hell? Is it god, us? Satan?

Who destroy the soul and body in hell, is it god or Satan?
Does God condemn us to hell, or do we?
Is it we who have the power to avoid hell for ourselves?

I said certain aspects of fear in the gospels, is not fear in the sense we know it today. Because 1 John 4, is very clear when it says:

"There is no fear in love, because fear has to do with punishment, and one who fears is not truly in love"

I cannot answer for Paul, but I can say his view stands in somewhat contradiction to John's view here. Eather I am to truly love god in the sense that John put's it, without fear of punishment, or I am not.

Secondly, you can't force yourself to fear something, eather you do, or you don't. I defiently don't have a fear of god in the sense you put it, and yet I deeply love god. It's not because I removed this fear from my life, but that in loving him, the fear was removed on it's own.

[/B]It is a deception to remove the fear from God, of our own accord

You can't force yourself to fear something, eather you do, or you don't. I defiently don't have a fear of god in the sense you put it, and yet I deeply love god. It's not because I removed this fear from my life, but that in loving him, the fear was removed on it's own.

Can you teach me to fear god? Can you get me to fear god? Can you make me fear anything? How?

Tell me what I am to be afraid of? other than me condeming myself to hell?
 
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TOsteve

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We should fear God’s wrath in as much as we understand our salvation. That is, we should do everything in our power (which by His mercy and grace God has asked for very little) to avoid incurring the wrath of God. Thankfully God’s seat of authority is built on righteousness and justice so we need not be terrorized by some image of an omnipotent tyrant, lording His power over the universe. Instead we revere an omnipotent father who lovingly wishes that no human would perish and offers us a clear path to redemption and eternal life.

I agree that all of humanity should fear God, but the nature of that fear should be determined by where we stand relationally with Him. We need not act like we are the potential objects of His wrath when we stand before Him as His children. Should we fear His discipline? Sure, but remember that the writer of Hebrews tells us that God disciplines His children because He loves them. But fear His wrath? Not for this believer who stands assured by the promises of scripture that my life has been redeemed by grace and the chains of slavery removed.

I would definitely urge all believers to revere God and be motivated to do everything in your power to see unrepentant sinners come to know redemption so they can be spared God’s wrath. And in the meantime enjoy a life of freedom as sons and daughters of the Creator of the universe! Because, after all, it was for freedom that we were set free.
 
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hithesh

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Matt 10:28
28] And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.
luke 12:
[4] And I say unto you my friends, Be not afraid of them that kill the body, and after that have no more that they can do.
[5] But I will forewarn you whom ye shall fear: Fear him, which after he hath killed hath power to cast into hell; yea, I say unto you, Fear him.
What word would you replace fear with in these 2 verses?



Who cast who into hell? Is it god, us? Satan?

Who destroy the soul and body in hell, is it god or Satan?
Does God condemn us to hell, or do we?
Is it we who have the power to avoid hell for ourselves?

I said certain aspects of fear in the gospels, is not fear in the sense we know it today. Because 1 John 4, is very clear when it says:

"There is no fear in love, because fear has to do with punishment, and one who fears is not truly in love"

I cannot answer for Paul, but I can say his view stands in somewhat contradiction to John's view here. Eather I am to truly love god in the sense that John put's it, without fear of punishment, or I am not.

It is a deception to remove the fear from God, of our own accord
You can't force yourself to fear something, eather you do, or you don't. I defiently don't have a fear of god in the sense you put it, and yet I deeply love god. It's not because I removed this fear from my life, but that in loving him, the fear was removed on it's own.

Can you teach me to fear god? Can you get me to fear god? Can you make me fear anything? How?

Tell me what I am to be afraid of? other than me condeming myself to hell?
 
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chris777

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Who cast who into hell? Is it god, us? Satan?

Who destroy the soul and body in hell, is it god or Satan?
Does God condemn us to hell, or do we?
Is it we who have the power to avoid hell for ourselves?
Uhh who does Christ SAY to FEAR its pretty clear, is it not?

I said certain aspects of fear in the gospels, is not fear in the sense we know it today. Because 1 John 4, is very clear when it says:

"There is no fear in love, because fear has to do with punishment, and one who fears is not truly in love"

I cannot answer for Paul, but I can say his view stands in somewhat contradiction to John's view here. Eather I am to truly love god in the sense that John put's it, without fear of punishment, or I am not.
Again I point you to the words of Christ himself.
All I can ask you to do is to look at how you are fearfully and wonderfully made. We take so many things for granted, that we seem to loose the shocking nature of what God has layed out in our construction, and the construction of the universe.
You can't force yourself to fear something, eather you do, or you don't. I defiently don't have a fear of god in the sense you put it, and yet I deeply love god. It's not because I removed this fear from my life, but that in loving him, the fear was removed on it's own.

Can you teach me to fear god? Can you get me to fear god? Can you make me fear anything? How?

Tell me what I am to be afraid of? other than me condeming myself to hell?
There are some contradictory statements here, or the yare out of order.
Are you saying thatyou used to fear god, and have learned not to, or that you just align the fear of the lord with the fear of punishment alone?
as for condemning ourselves, there is a reason for a judgement, and that one alone will judge
 
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chris777

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You seem to be concentrating on puritanistic thought.
If they believed the scriptures then I suppose you might say that, but I am not all tha taware of what they though, so I also suppose that if they stated things in contradiction to the scriptures, I would likely disagree.

As for fear , vs love, do not assume that my love has been cast out by my fear.

its more of a realization of who God is, as my maker.
That does not mean I neither love him, or my brothers and sisters.
I know who my neighbors are, and who I am the keeper of.
 
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RonnyRulz

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Jesus said not to fear evil, but rather God.
There's a big difference between the definition of fear, RESPECT and AWE, and the fear of, well, FEAR.

FEAR is of Satan. You can't fear God, because there is no fear in God's Presence.

Fear can only be found in an Evil Presence.

To "fear the LORD" is simply just to revere and respect Him. Not to actually fear Him.

There's no reason to fear God, and there's no fear in the Presence of God.

Anyone who has experience with the Presence of God and the Presence of Evil knows this.
Satan's #1 tool is Fear.
God never uses Fear.
 
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hithesh

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Again I point you to the words of Christ himself.
All I can ask you to do is to look at how you are fearfully and wonderfully made. We take so many things for granted, that we seem to loose the shocking nature of what God has layed out in our construction, and the construction of the universe.
Perhaps you can explain what I am to fear? You can't tell someone, hey "fear this person". You can tell a person to fear the man who will viciously murder you, and in that sense, you fear being viciously murdered. Now, tell me, what am I to fear in terms of God?

I believe I'm living a "good" life. I have a deep love for god, and love for others, I don't ask for much from god, other than my daily bread, so in that sense I don't fear god because he will eventually send me to hell, because I see no reason for him to do such a thing to me. Nor, do fear any trials that he may place me in here. If he were to place me in such trials, such as those given to Job, i would still say to God be the glory.

So i lost the fear of punishment, finite, and infinite, and now remain perfectly in love.

There are some contradictory statements here, or the yare out of order. Are you saying thatyou used to fear god, and have learned not to, or that you just align the fear of the lord with the fear of punishment alone? as for condemning ourselves, there is a reason for a judgement, and that one alone will judge
God does not condemn me, I condemn myself, the murderer is not convicted by the court of law, he is convicted by the act he commited. So god does not condemn me to hell, I condemn myself to hell. God does not condemn the innocent now does he? Apparently I must have done something wrong, that I was well aware of, to be condemned, by our lord who knows everything, just as we do, in terms of self.

I didn't learn, to stop fearing god. I feared God at a time when I was sinful, well aware of my misdeeds, ashamed of them, and yet commiting them, in this I feared God, because he knew everything, just as i feared my concious/soul that knew all things as well. In leaving this sinful life of mine, I knew I was forgiven, and in this I lost fear, because their was nothing to fear, because I was in love. (I say, if you truly feared god, as you say, then perhaps you feel guilty about something you're doing?)

But even here, it was not a fear of punishment, but a fear of disapointing God. Much like when i was younger, and older, I feared dissapointing my parents, long after they lost their ability to punish me for doing deeds that dissapointed them.

If you were to say that fear of God, means Awe and Respect, than I do fear God, but since the "fear", you present is not this, then I do not fear god.
 
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TOsteve

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"I tell you, my friends, do not be afraid of those who kill the body and after that can do no more. But I will show you whom you should fear: Fear him who, after the killing of the body, has power to throw you into hell. Yes, I tell you, fear him. Are not five sparrows sold for two pennies? Yet not one of them is forgotten by God. Indeed, the very hairs of your head are all numbered. Don't be afraid; you are worth more than many sparrows. I tell you, whoever acknowledges me before men, the Son of Man will also acknowledge him before the angels of God. But he who disowns me before men will be disowned before the angels of God. And everyone who speaks a word against the Son of Man will be forgiven, but anyone who blasphemes against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven.” Luke 12:4-10

Looking at the above scripture in context and reading the entirety of God’s word in context we should see that the redeemed have no reason to live in terror of God’s wrath. As recipients of God’s saving grace we still have a fearful reverence for His authority, however can rest in the knowledge that we have been adopted into His family:

“Therefore, brothers, we have an obligation—but it is not to the sinful nature, to live according to it. For if you live according to the sinful nature, you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the misdeeds of the body, you will live, because those who are led by the Spirit of God are sons of God. For you did not receive a spirit that makes you a slave again to fear, but you received the Spirit of sonship. And by him we cry, "Abba, Father." The Spirit himself testifies with our spirit that we are God's children. Now if we are children, then we are heirs—heirs of God and co-heirs with Christ, if indeed we share in his sufferings in order that we may also share in his glory.” Romans 8:12-17

I was once terrified of God’s wrath, but have been set free from this bondage and live in the freedom of my new nature as a son of God. So much so that I can cry: “Abba, Father”. Abba being an Aramaic word for the most intimate expression of parental love – almost like God is saying you can call me “daddy” although there is no perfect English equivalent to express the tenderness of this word.

Revere God, but as His child and heir you need not be terrorized by Him!
 
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chris777

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Are you three saying we should fear satan?

I understand what you are saying, and I agree, that there is forgivness, and easing of fear.

There were 2 reasons I started the post, 1 to demonstrate, how many have diminished the soverignty of God and turned him into a cuddly teddy bear, when the lost and sinning should be afraid.

and 2 to demonstrate how God is to be feared above satan.

In many of the verses I listed the word fear cannot be exchanged with respect, or the meaning is changed.
 
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TOsteve

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Are you three saying we should fear satan?

I am certainly not saying this.

I understand what you are saying, and I agree, that there is forgivness, and easing of fear.

Cool, this was the only distinction I was trying to make. When the nature of our relationship with God changes and we trade the spirit of fear for the spirit of sonship - the nature of our fear for God also changes.

Terror describes a slavery to fear and I don't believe Christians should relate this way to God.

There were 2 reasons I started the post, 1 to demonstrate, how many have diminished the soverignty of God and turned him into a cuddly teddy bear, when the lost and sinning should be afraid.

I agree that when the lost come to a revelation of the fear of God, it is the beginning of understanding that their relationship needs to change.

Hence the many OT scriptures stating that the fear of God is the beginning/essence of knowledge/wisdom.

and 2 to demonstrate how God is to be feared above satan.

Agreed.
 
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chris777

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I've always struggled with fear of life without God. I have an entire family who's not saved, and have no immediate intention of getting to know Jesus, despite my constant attempts.
That Scares me to death!

it rends my heart apart, Sometimes I have to Just shut down when I try comprehending the concept of just how truly many will be lost.

It also reminds me of how little I do, and my need to sacrfice more and more of my own flesh that some might be saved.
 
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RonnyRulz

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how many have diminished the soverignty of God and turned him into a cuddly teddy bear,

God is more like a cuddly teddy bear than anything else. That's an amazing description of Him.
If you disagree, you have a lot to learn about God. :cool:
He is the best cuddly teddy bear!!!

Are you three saying we should fear satan?

STOP MAKING ASSUMPTIONS!!!!!!!!!!!!
I am really getting tired of people taking something and COMPLETELY translating it to mean something COMPLETELY different. How people take "Fear is of Satan" and turn it into "We should fear Satan" is beyond me. It's very frustrating when you say something, and people ask you, "So you are saying the opposite of what you mean?" If someone did not specifically say, "We should fear Satan" then DO NOT, I REPEAT DO NOT, DO NOT DO NOT DO NOT DO NOT make an assumption.
It is so incredibly frustrating that everyone on these forums takes what you say and assumes you also believe in something ridiculous. Assumptions are bad.

What ever happened to giving your christian brothers the benefit of the doubt?

We have no reason to fear Satan, butfear is of Satan.

I'm going to quote 3 bible verses. This will end the debate of fear and God.

1 John 4:8
God is love.
1 John 4:16
God is love.

1 John 4:18
There is no fear in love. But perfect love drives out fear, because fear has to do with punishment. The one who fears is not made perfect in love.



Read it all if you want. It's 3 verses.

1 John 4:16-18
And so we know and rely on the love God has for us.
God is love. Whoever lives in love lives in God, and God in him. In this way, love is made complete among us so that we will have confidence on the day of judgment, because in this world we are like him. There is no fear in love. But perfect love drives out fear, because fear has to do with punishment. The one who fears is not made perfect in love.
 
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chris777

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STOP MAKING ASSUMPTIONS!!!!!!!!!!!!
I am really getting tired of people taking something and COMPLETELY translating it to mean something COMPLETELY different. How people take "Fear is of Satan" and turn it into "We should fear Satan" is beyond me. It's very frustrating when you say something, and people ask you, "So you are saying the opposite of what you mean?" If someone did not specifically say, "We should fear Satan" then DO NOT, I REPEAT DO NOT, DO NOT DO NOT DO NOT DO NOT make an assumption.
It is so incredibly frustrating that everyone on these forums takes what you say and assumes you also believe in something ridiculous. Assumptions are bad.

What ever happened to giving your christian brothers the benefit of the doubt?

We have no reason to fear Satan, butfear is of Satan.

I'm going to quote 3 bible verses. This will end the debate of fear and God.

1 John 4:8
God is love.
1 John 4:16
God is love.

1 John 4:18
There is no fear in love. But perfect love drives out fear, because fear has to do with punishment. The one who fears is not made perfect in love.



Read it all if you want. It's 3 verses.

1 John 4:16-18
And so we know and rely on the love God has for us.
God is love. Whoever lives in love lives in God, and God in him. In this way, love is made complete among us so that we will have confidence on the day of judgment, because in this world we are like him. There is no fear in love. But perfect love drives out fear, because fear has to do with punishment. The one who fears is not made perfect in love.
I wasn't making an assumption, I really was asking a question, particularly in regards to how You perceive
the following verses from the gospels, and how you reconcile them
With the vereses youve quoted.
Matt 10:28
28] And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.
Luke 12:
[4] And I say unto you my friends, Be not afraid of them that kill the body, and after that have no more that they can do.
[5] But I will forewarn you whom ye shall fear: Fear him, which after he hath killed hath power to cast into hell; yea, I say unto you, Fear him.

That was why I even asked Because the replies were somewhat ambiguous from several, not just you.

God is more like a cuddly teddy bear than anything else. That's an amazing description of Him.
If you disagree, you have a lot to learn about God.
He is the best cuddly teddy bear!!!

Question, and again it isnt an accusatory, but more of a puzzlement.
what do you think of all of the old testament views, of God, and his Judgements on israel, and the hebrews?
Love is an aspect, of God, A very important one, probably the most important one, But it is not the only aspect.
We will all be Judged, and many who deny him, Shall not enter the kingdom of heaven.

To remove all aspects of God save one is diminishing from all the other scriptures that describe God. I have little doubt that his love for us exceeds most if not all the other aspects of God, but it does not eliminate them.

Can you possibly elaborate more, as to clarify, your view.
I dont really want to start quoting verses, yet, because I am unclear on your position, and It is not my aim, to insult, and cause strife, but rather as I have stated in my other post.
 
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