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Does God grade on a curve?

By what standard will God judge us on Judgement Day?

  • perfect conformity to the 10 commandments

    Votes: 1 4.5%
  • some conformity to the 10 commandments

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • the 10 commandments are irrelevant

    Votes: 5 22.7%
  • other (please explain)

    Votes: 16 72.7%

  • Total voters
    22

Shempster

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It's worse than you think.
The only way to truly obey the 10 commandments is to "Love God with all your heart mind and strength, and to love everyone else as much as yourself" and we are absolutely expected to do that. But what God wants is for us to be this way from within our hearts. He isn't impressed with people who follow them like a formula to win the lottery.
God will judge our deepest motives and intentions.
Sounds scary, but the truth is that once your heart is clean, you have nothing to worry about.

Bless
 
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JacksBratt

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Paul says that the church shares the blessings of the gospel along with Abraham:

Galatians 3:8-9
The Scripture foresaw that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, and foretold the gospel to Abraham: “All nations will be blessed through you.” So those who have faith are blessed along with Abraham, the man of faith.

The economy of being under law or grace was the same back then as it is today. Grace was available in the OT because the Gospel was foreshadowed by practically everything Judaistic from the temple to the sacrifice and everything in between. Jesus said He was the temple and in Hebrews, the Psalms are quoted as being the very words of the Christ. For example, see what the author does in Hebrews 10:5-10 with Psalms 40:6-7,

Consequently, when Christ came into the world, he said,

“Sacrifices and offerings you have not desired,
but a body have you prepared for me;
in burnt offerings and sin offerings
you have taken no pleasure.
Then I said, ‘Behold, I have come to do your will, O God,
as it is written of me in the scroll of the book.’”

When he said above, “You have neither desired nor taken pleasure in sacrifices and offerings and burnt offerings and sin offerings” (these are offered according to the law), then he added, “Behold, I have come to do your will.” He does away with the first in order to establish the second. And by that will we have been sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.


The OT is dripping with the Gospel. We just need to learn where to find it.
Yes, I agree.

I believe that Christ's work on the cross was to save those before Him and after..

I just think that we have a different method of acquiring salvation than those before Calvary.
 
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JacksBratt

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How does a heart become clean and when does this happen?
I don't think it ever does.

I think that, even after we accept Christ, we are still flesh. We still sin as we are born to it.

However, it is Christ that covers us with His blood so that in God's site... we are righteous. We take on the righteousness of Christ. Washed in His blood.
 
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Saint Steven

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It will be on the basis of whether they have received or rejected Christ. The Scripture says that those who love have fulfilled the Law, and a person who is truly converted loves God with all his heart and loves his neighbor as himself. The truly converted believer will not be at the great white throne judgment as a defendant, but as a witness. He won't be judged because he has already judged himself as a hopeless sinner and thrown himself on the grace and mercy of Christ. But the one who has rejected Christ will be presented with the evidence of his rejection to show that he is guilty without excuse.
Hey Oscarr,
You used the term "truly converted" twice in your post.
Could you elaborate on what you mean? Thanks.
 
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JAYPT

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I don't think it ever does.

Absolutely it does, Jesus cleaned house and moved in. The Holy Spirit does not dwell in "dirty places". Romans says we are obedient from the heart. We are clean and close, not dirty and distant.

However, it is Christ that covers us with His blood so that in God's site... we are righteous. We take on the righteousness of Christ. Washed in His blood.

Jesus bold does NOT cover our sins. What does John the baptist say? Here comes the Lamb that takes away the sins of the world. The difference is that the blood of bulls and goats could never take away sins but only cover them. We are righteous, we dont "take it on". And yes we are washed by His blood, again we are clean and close, not dirty and distant.
 
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JAYPT

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How does a heart become clean and when does this happen?

When you ask, Jesus sets up shop, he cleans house and moves in. It is not a feeling but a knowing. Believing with your heart and confessing with your mouth. Done deal.
 
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royal priest

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When you ask, Jesus sets up shop, he cleans house and moves in. It is not a feeling but a knowing. Believing with your heart and confessing with your mouth. Done deal.
Confession of sin is one time act and then you never sin again?
 
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JAYPT

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Confession of sin is one time act and then you never sin again?

No, confession of sin over and over again is not required for forgiveness. The bible say Jesus died once for all, one time for all sin for all people. When did you sin happen in relation to His death? In his future. So He looked down the timeline of your life and forgave you of all your sin. Once for all. The bible says we are forgiven, again and again and again. It is not progressive or "positional" as some may tell you.
 
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royal priest

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No, confession of sin over and over again is not required for forgiveness. The bible say Jesus died once for all, one time for all sin for all people. When did you sin happen in relation to His death? In his future. So He looked down the timeline of your life and forgave you of all your sin. Once for all. The bible says we are forgiven, again and again and again. It is not progressive or "positional" as some may tell you.
You don't consider confession of sin as a part of repentance from sin?
 
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JAYPT

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You don't consider confession of sin as a part of repentance from sin?

What is repentance? Repentance is a change of mind, not a speaking of your mouth. Do we have a Godly sorrow for what we do? Of course. Do we hate sin? Of course. These have no bearing on our forgiveness. We are a forgiven people.
 
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Presbyterian Continuist

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Hey Oscarr,
You used the term "truly converted" twice in your post.
Could you elaborate on what you mean? Thanks.
True conversion is a total transformation of the heart toward Christ. Before, the sinner loved and enjoyed sin and was totally resistant to anything to do with Christ. This is the natural state of mankind. Their hearts are set against God and Christ and without a work of the Holy Spirit, they will never want to understand or obey the gospel.

What happens is that someone shares the gospel with a sinner. He hears the gospel but does not understand it and is resistant to its requirements. The believer then prays that God will enlighten the sinner. As a result, the Holy Spirit gives the sinner understanding that he is an unworthy sinner, deserving of hell, and that the only way to be accepted of God is through the death and resurrection of Christ.

This causes the sinner to come under intense conviction of sin and he is moved to praying and seeking after God. As a result of his prayers, the Holy Spirit gives him saving faith to receive Christ as Saviour. Once having received Christ as Saviour, he goes through a total transformation as his spirit comes alive to God, and he receives a new heart to love God and Christ, and hate his own sinfulness. This transformation is what I mean by true conversion. Most, if not all of this process is done privately with God.

As you can see, this is quite different than a person making just an outward profession of Christianity without a total change of heart toward God. A person can decide to attend church, read the Bible, live a moral life, but all this comes from his old carnal nature and not the new nature that is formed by an inner, heart conversion to Christ. His religion is just an outward observance to religious observances before others, but he reverts to his natural carnal self when away from the religious influences.

But the genuinely converted believer has no confidence in himself to make himself holy, but loves Christ and strongly desires to live the way Christ would want him to live, whether he is at church, home, at work, or mixing socially. He is not afraid to be a Christian believer in any environment, because it is in his heart to want to please Christ in all he does. He hates it when he loses the battle with the flesh, and this causes him distress that he has failed his Lord.

It is almost impossible to tell the difference between a truly converted believer and a religious hypocrite but looking at them. Often a religious hypocrite will appear more saintly and holy in many cases than the true believer. But appearances can be deceiving, because man looks on the outward appearance and God looks upon the heart where we cannot see.

This is why, as truly converted believers, we must hate the sin in ourselves, but love everyone else no matter who they are.
 
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JAYPT

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It's worse than you think.
The only way to truly obey the 10 commandments is to "Love God with all your heart mind and strength, and to love everyone else as much as yourself" and we are absolutely expected to do that. But what God wants is for us to be this way from within our hearts. He isn't impressed with people who follow them like a formula to win the lottery.
God will judge our deepest motives and intentions.
Sounds scary, but the truth is that once your heart is clean, you have nothing to worry about.

We are not called to obey the 10 commandments. We are called to trust Jesus. Can you love your God with all your heart, mind and strength? I would say not. James says if you stumble in one point of the law, you are guilty of all of it. Quit trying to be a law keeper and be a Jesus truster. He was the fulfillment of the law, the law is a ministry of condemnation and death. Jesus is life.

God is not going to judge you, the bible says Jesus will return without reference to sin for those who eagerly await Him, do you eagerly await Him? Then there will be no reference to your sin.
 
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Presbyterian Continuist

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What is repentance? Repentance is a change of mind, not a speaking of your mouth. Do we have a Godly sorrow for what we do? Of course. Do we hate sin? Of course. These have no bearing on our forgiveness. We are a forgiven people.
Repentance is a change of attitude to God and Christ. This can come only through a work of the Holy Spirit. Natural man cannot repent of his own accord. His natural bent is to resist God and love sin. Only the Holy Spirit can change that and cause the sinner to start calling upon God to save him. Once that happens, the conversion process can start to turn him completely to Christ as his Saviour and Lord.
 
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JAYPT

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Repentance is a change of attitude to God and Christ. This can come only through a work of the Holy Spirit. Natural man cannot repent of his own accord. His natural bent is to resist God and love sin. Only the Holy Spirit can change that and cause the sinner to start calling upon God to save him. Once that happens, the conversion process can start to turn him completely to Christ as his Saviour and Lord.

Almost.... Natural man can repent, we have a choice to make, we are not completely absolved of not being able to make the choice. If there was no choice to make, the would have been no reason for anyone to preach to the lost (you and me at one time). However, no one can convince us, I agree, we need to listen to the Holy Spirit. Jesus stands at the door and knocks, He doesnt push it down, why? Because we need to respond. We are then given a new heart, not of stone but of flesh.
 
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royal priest

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What is repentance? Repentance is a change of mind, not a speaking of your mouth. Do we have a Godly sorrow for what we do? Of course. Do we hate sin? Of course. These have no bearing on our forgiveness. We are a forgiven people.
I apologize for all the questions but I'm just trying to understand your position.
So, you're saying that a believer's heart is clean forensically, and not actually?
 
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ViaCrucis

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When you ask, Jesus sets up shop, he cleans house and moves in. It is not a feeling but a knowing. Believing with your heart and confessing with your mouth. Done deal.

Why can't I just trust the Gospel and what it says?

-CryptoLutheran
 
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JAYPT

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I apologize for all the questions but I'm just trying to understand your position.
So, you're saying that a believer's heart is clean forensically, and not actually?

No problem, ask all you want. No a believers heart is clean period. Romans says we are obedient from the heart, we are clean and close. The Holy Spirit lives in a clean place. You are actually forgiven, you are actually obedient, why? Because at the heart, you hate sin. You dont like it, it frustrates you, you can stand it. Have you ever asked why that is? Because you have had a heart change, a"DNA swap" as it were.
 
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ViaCrucis

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No problem, ask all you want. No a believers heart is clean period. Romans says we are obedient from the heart, we are clean and close. The Holy Spirit lives in a clean place. You are actually forgiven, you are actually obedient, why? Because at the heart, you hate sin. You dont like it, it frustrates you, you can stand it. Have you ever asked why that is? Because you have had a heart change, a"DNA swap" as it were.

Explain Romans chapter 7 then.

-CryptoLutheran
 
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