Does God allow abortions?

[Pedra]

You are normal. Nobody believes what I have discovered.
They all say the scripture below is Hogwash.

1 Peter 2:13-17
Titus 3:1
1 Timothy 2:1-3
Psalms 22:28
Daniel 2:20-21
Romans 13:7
1 Timothy 2:1-2
Deuteronomy 16:18-20
Revelation 1:5
Romans 13:4
Proverbs 21:1
John 19:11
Mark 3:24
Proverbs 29:2
Proverbs 8:15
Psalms 94:20
Deuteronomy 28:1-68
Daniel 2:21
John 19:10-11

Your arguments are all based upon peppering us with reams of scripture taken out of context & twisting it's meaning.

 

[Pedra]

Jesus believed that the Father worked though local law.
John 19
10 So Pilate said to Him, “Do You refuse to speak to me? Do You not know that I have authority to release You and authority to crucify You?” 11 Jesus answered, “You would have no
authority over Me if it were not given to you from above.

Saying that "Jesus believed that the Father worked through the local law." forms wrong logic, then, was GOD "working through" Nero to torture & martyr Christians? or God was "working through" Stalin to brutally murder 20 million innocent people?or "working through" Hitler to murder 6 million Jews? Instead He was telling Pilate this was His destiny being fulfilled. It was preordained by the LORD that Jesus was the sent Messiah, Savior, to be the pass-over lamb slaughtered by crucifixion on Calvary for the sins of the world, for all who would repent & believe on Jesus death & His resurrection. The Bible tells us this is a fallen world under the sway of Satan, but Christian's are to be salt and light and stand apart from the world & occupy until we see Jesus.

 

[CaspianSails]

You be the judge:

1 Peter 2:13-17
Be subject for the Lord's sake to every human institution, whether it be to the emperor as supreme, or to governors as sent by him to punish those who do evil and to praise those who do good. For this is the will of God, that by doing good you should put to silence the ignorance of foolish people. Live as people who are free, not using your freedom as a cover-up for evil, but living as servants of God. Honor everyone. Love the brotherhood. Fear God. Honor the emperor.

Titus 3:1
Remind them to be submissive to rulers and authorities, to be obedient, to be ready for every good work,

and now:
New York State Assembly Passes Third Trimester Abortion Bill

No God does not support murder of babies. And no this does not mean you condone a government which supports murder.

 

[RDKirk]

I forget the book, but I am pretty sure there are literally instructions on how and when to have an abortion in the bible.

There is a place in the Mosaic Law in the case where a husband believes his wife is being unfaithful, and if pregnant, that the baby is not his.

The law prescribes a potion to be mixed and drunk by the woman. If she gets seriously ill (stomach swells), then she had been unfaithful. If not, then she has been falsely accused and all sorts of legal restrictions are placed upon the husband for the rest of his life.

The thing is: The potion is distasteful but harmless. This law is similar to the law for the case where a bridegroom accuses his bride of not having been a virgin on their wedding night. The legal proof of her virginity is totally in the hands of her mother, so that any mother who could not prove her daughter had been a virgin would be a very stupid mother indeed.

In both cases, the law is transparently biased toward the woman.

 

[(° ͡ ͜ ͡ʖ ͡ °) (ᵔᴥᵔʋ)]

Obeying government takes precedent over the written code in scripture.

1 Timothy 2:1-3
First of all, then, I urge that supplications, prayers, intercessions, and thanksgivings be made for all people, for kings and all who are in high positions, that we may lead a peaceful and quiet life, godly and dignified in every way. This is good, and it is pleasing in the sight of God our Savior,

If a local law contradicts the Bible, what should we obey?

 

[(° ͡ ͜ ͡ʖ ͡ °) (ᵔᴥᵔʋ)]

Context, my good man.

When Paul and Peter wrote to submit to civil authority, Nero was the emperor. While bowing down to the Roman/Greek pantheon was not required by Romans, it was STRONGLY encouraged. But both said to worship the God of Abraham Isaac and Jacob exclusively.

So you are saying worshiping those idols was OK with God, Peter and Paul?

Acts 5:29 “We must obey God rather than human beings!"

 

[(° ͡ ͜ ͡ʖ ͡ °) (ᵔᴥᵔʋ)]

Best you read that in context and let God explain. Forum posters are notorious for boasting what we think we know.

Released from the Law
7 Or do you not know, brothers[a]—for I am speaking to those who know the law—that the law is binding on a person only as long as he lives? 2 For a married woman is bound by law to her husband while he lives, but if her husband dies she is released from the law of marriage. 3 Accordingly, she will be called an adulteress if she lives with another man while her husband is alive. But if her husband dies, she is free from that law, and if she marries another man she is not an adulteress.

4 Likewise, my brothers, you also have died to the law through the body of Christ, so that you may belong to another, to him who has been raised from the dead, in order that we may bear fruit for God. 5 For while we were living in the flesh, our sinful passions, aroused by the law, were at work in our members to bear fruit for death. 6 But now we are released from the law, having died to that which held us captive, so that we serve in the new way of the Spirit and not in the old way of the written code.[c]

The Law and Sin
7 What then shall we say? That the law is sin? By no means! Yet if it had not been for the law, I would not have known sin. For I would not have known what it is to covet if the law had not said, “You shall not covet.” 8 But sin, seizing an opportunity through the commandment, produced in me all kinds of covetousness. For apart from the law, sin lies dead. 9 I was once alive apart from the law, but when the commandment came, sin came alive and I died. 10 The very commandment that promised life proved to be death to me. 11 For sin, seizing an opportunity through the commandment, deceived me and through it killed me. 12 So the law is holy, and the commandment is holy and righteous and good.
Bible Gateway passage: Romans 7 - English Standard Version

"So I guess love thy neighbor as thy self" is obsolete too then?

 

[(° ͡ ͜ ͡ʖ ͡ °) (ᵔᴥᵔʋ)]

That's pretty messed up considering Jesus said the opposite below.
(Paul never met Jesus.)

But Peter did.
Acts 5:29 “We must obey God rather than human beings!"

 

[(° ͡ ͜ ͡ʖ ͡ °) (ᵔᴥᵔʋ)]

This topic is altogether bizzare. Since when is the federal government commanding us to get abortions? This is not an imperial system as it was back in the apostles time. Peter specifically says to honor the emperor.

We however are in a democracy- which means we choose what the government does. We are supposed to be represented.

What an odd way to go about this argument.

Perhaps we are blessed that in the United States, no such law requires anyone to have an abortion. However, that is not the point. There are other countries, like China when they had their one child policy, that forbid having more than one child. Many were forced to either abort their second child, or pay a heavy fine. The OP is suggesting that a Chinese Christian ought to have an abortion in those situations.

 

[(° ͡ ͜ ͡ʖ ͡ °) (ᵔᴥᵔʋ)]

His Will be done.

Apparently, until a local law says otherwise.

 

[Natsumi Lam]

Obeying government takes precedent over the written code in scripture.

1 Timothy 2:1-3
First of all, then, I urge that supplications, prayers, intercessions, and thanksgivings be made for all people, for kings and all who are in high positions, that we may lead a peaceful and quiet life, godly and dignified in every way. This is good, and it is pleasing in the sight of God our Savior,

What if the Government tells you to take the mark and bow to the beast? Your going with the government over the Word?

 

[(° ͡ ͜ ͡ʖ ͡ °) (ᵔᴥᵔʋ)]

As I read it, the people of that time will have no choice.

"15 The second beast was given power to give breath to the image of the first beast, so that the image could speak and cause all who refused to worship the image to be killed. 16 It also forced all people, great and small, rich and poor, free and slave, to receive a mark on their right hands or on their foreheads, 17 so that they could not buy or sell unless they had the mark, which is the name of the beast or the number of its name.Revelation 13:15-17)
They will have a choice. Either accept the mark or be killed. Many will choose death. I will choose to die before receiving the mark and forfeiting my soul.

Those who receive the mark of the beast were "deluded".
"19 Then I saw the beast and the kings of the earth and their armies gathered together to wage war against the rider on the horse and his army. 20 But the beast was captured, and with it the false prophet who had performed the signs on its behalf. With these signs he had deluded those who had received the mark of the beast and worshiped its image. The two of them were thrown alive into the fiery lake of burning sulfur. 21 The rest were killed with the sword coming out of the mouth of the rider on the horse, and all the birds gorged themselves on their flesh.

Whose who chose not to receive the mark and were killed came back to life. Those who chose to receive the mark were destroyed.
3 He threw him into the Abyss, and locked and sealed it over him, to keep him from deceiving the nations anymore until the thousand years were ended. After that, he must be set free for a short time.

4 I saw thrones on which were seated those who had been given authority to judge. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony about Jesus and because of the word of God. They[a] had not worshiped the beast or its image and had not received its mark on their foreheads or their hands. They came to life and reigned with Christ a thousand years. 5 (The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were ended.) This is the first resurrection. (Revelation 20:3-5)

 

[(° ͡ ͜ ͡ʖ ͡ °) (ᵔᴥᵔʋ)]

People just make stuff up sometimes.

The irony.

 

[(° ͡ ͜ ͡ʖ ͡ °) (ᵔᴥᵔʋ)]

The law is in my heart.

You just ignore it in favor of the laws of men.

 

[(° ͡ ͜ ͡ʖ ͡ °) (ᵔᴥᵔʋ)]

@SkyWriting . I am no longer looking at this as an abortion issue. This is now an "I am concerned for your soul" issue. I am serious and I am not trying to be rude. I am genuinely concerned for you because of how deceived you have become. Look around on this forum and ask yourself how many people actually agree with your position. I haven't found one. What does that tell you? Be honest. Do you think it is possible that all these God fearing Christians are right and you are wrong? Jesus commanded his disciples to take up their cross. What does that mean to you? Jesus said "My mother and my brothers are those who hear the word of God and do it." Luke 8:21 ESV.
James then says :
"Do not merely listen to the word, and so deceive yourselves. Do what it says. Anyone who listens to the word but does not do what it says is like someone who looks at his face in a mirror and, after looking at himself, goes away and immediately forgets what he looks like. But whoever looks intently into the perfect law that gives freedom, and continues in it—not forgetting what they have heard, but doing it—they will be blessed in what they do."
James 1:22‭-‬25 NIV

So please let go of the pride and stubborn rebellion against God.

 

[Ttalkkugjil]

You be the judge:

1 Peter 2:13-17
Be subject for the Lord's sake to every human institution, whether it be to the emperor as supreme, or to governors as sent by him to punish those who do evil and to praise those who do good. For this is the will of God, that by doing good you should put to silence the ignorance of foolish people. Live as people who are free, not using your freedom as a cover-up for evil, but living as servants of God. Honor everyone. Love the brotherhood. Fear God. Honor the emperor.

Here Peter mentions instances in which his instructions concerning Christians' behavior over against unbelievers should find their application, "Submit yourselves to every human authority for God's sake."

This admonition was needed in the early Church's days. Some Christians felt that the government was none of their concern, and that they owed no allegiance to the ruler. So Peter states that believers are to submit themselves to human authorities.

Since by God's authority all governments exist, the government's authority should be recognized and its existence by God's order acknowledged. One of government's functions is to punish those who refuse to keep the peace, who are disobedient to the laws.

The people that do well, those that live in conformity with the land's law, the government should protect against wickedness.

☆ Christians can't be obedient to the government if it extends its authority to spiritual matters. ☆

The motive for the Christians' obedience is given by Peter, "God's will's that in well-doing you silence fools' error, as free, and having your freedom as God’s servants."

The Christians in this way will do more to silence the wrong ideas, the errors which fools hold with regard to their status in the state, than by books written in explanation of their tenets.

☆ In our days, we must do good works, meanwhile changing neither our religion nor the means of grace. We should remember that we partake of the freedom which Christ earned for us. We should submit as Peter admonishes. ☆

No true believer will plead freedom from the Law as his excuse for not obeying the government, for not fulfilling God's will. They won't become guilty of sins. That'd be an abuse of the freedom to which Jesus has called us.

We're God's servants, whose delight it's to show the new life in works which will please God. As such people, that serve God in obedience, the Christians are glad to hear Peter in his call, "Give honor to all; love the friends; fear God; honor the ruler."

To their fellow believers, the Christians are to give the honor which is due them in whatever position they hold in the state. To their friends they should show that love which is proper among God's children.

☆ They should fear God, other considerations being relegated to the background in view of this demand. ☆

To the government, they'll give the honor which is due according to the Fourth Commandment.

☆ Christians are to be active in showing an attitude which is bound in obedience under God's Word. ☆

 

[Dave-W]

Acts 5:29 “We must obey God rather than human beings!"

Correct... WHEN obeying man makes us directly disobey God. The rabbinic authorities told the disciples to NOT teach about Jesus; but HE ordered them to preach the gospel starting there in Jerusalem.

Do not take that as carte blanch to just disobey civil or religious authority.

 

[SkyWriting]

What if the Government tells you to take the mark and bow to the beast? Your going with the government over the Word?

Does scripture say to not take the mark of the beast?
I've not gotten into this mark of the beast issue.

 

[SkyWriting]

Acts 5:29 “We must obey God rather than human beings!"

He was telling that to the High priest and group of bishops.
How was explaining that the church leaders were bunk.

 

[SkyWriting]

@SkyWriting . I am no longer looking at this as an abortion issue. This is now an "I am concerned for your soul" issue. I am serious and I am not trying to be rude. I am genuinely concerned for you because of how deceived you have become. Look around on this forum and ask yourself how many people actually agree with your position. I haven't found one. What does that tell you? Be honest. Do you think it is possible that all these God fearing Christians are right and you are wrong? Jesus commanded his disciples to take up their cross. What does that mean to you? Jesus said "My mother and my brothers are those who hear the word of God and do it." Luke 8:21 ESV.
James then says :
"Do not merely listen to the word, and so deceive yourselves. Do what it says. Anyone who listens to the word but does not do what it says is like someone who looks at his face in a mirror and, after looking at himself, goes away and immediately forgets what he looks like. But whoever looks intently into the perfect law that gives freedom, and continues in it—not forgetting what they have heard, but doing it—they will be blessed in what they do."
James 1:22‭-‬25 NIV

So please let go of the pride and stubborn rebellion against God.

Thanks! I do appreciate your resistance to battle.