Does Evolution Debunk Christianity?

[mbinks89]

Allow me to explain. Theologically, Christianity is based on Christ redeeming us from the Fall of man. If evolution is correct, which I personally believe it to be, then that shines some serious doubt on the validity of Genesis. If Genesis isn't true, then how could man have fallen, and if man didn't fall, why was Christ even necessary?
Could it be that Genesis is symbolic of man's general sinful disposition, and that it is that sinning that separates us from God?

 

[ChristianT]

No; genesis shouldn't be read as an authoritative book on the cosmology or "how" of the created order. If anything, God as Creator of all things was the main point of chapter one, and that man had a special role as the Image bearer of God. In the fall, that image is marred. We become enslaved to sins as humans become enticed and dragged away. Later, Christ takes on flesh and dies in order to partake in our full human experience, and is resurrected to free us from sin and restore us to God. Death lost it's sting and the Image of God is re-realized in Christ.

 

[mbinks89]

So then original sin would be man's natural inclination towards wrong-doing, and not the whole eating from the tree thing?

 

[ChristianT]

Right. I believe this would be the Orthodox stance too (perhaps not all evolution-inclusive, but the description of sin)

 

[mbinks89]

Oh okay. Thanks.

 

[lesliedellow]

You seem to share the atheists' idea that "true" and "literally true" are synonyms. Genesis can be the former without also being the latter.

Genesis 3 contains a mythological account of original sin's origin. It is mythical because its actual origin is unknown, and perhaps unknowable, but it does have some points to make, and number one amongst those points is that human pride had a large part to play in the fall.

 

[lesliedellow]

So then original sin would be man's natural inclination towards wrong-doing, and not the whole eating from the tree thing?

Original sin was never understood to be about God throwing a tantrum because somebody ate from a tree a long time ago. It is about our total inability to live up to even our own ideals, let alone God's commands.

 

[bibleblevr]

Right. I believe this would be the Orthodox stance too (perhaps not all evolution-inclusive, but the description of sin)

That is not the Orthodox stance, historically it has been affirmed that sin nature is not just a inclination towards sin but rather a sin nature passed down through heredity.

 

[Bear.Fr00t]

Allow me to explain. Theologically, Christianity is based on Christ redeeming us from the Fall of man. If evolution is correct, which I personally believe it to be, then that shines some serious doubt on the validity of Genesis. If Genesis isn't true, then how could man have fallen, and if man didn't fall, why was Christ even necessary?
Could it be that Genesis is symbolic of man's general sinful disposition, and that it is that sinning that separates us from God?

When you say evolution is true, what exactly do you mean by evolution? The definition can be broad or narrow, so I'm not sure what you actually believe.

 

[mbinks89]

By evolution I mean Darwinian natural selection. The favoring of nature towards better adapted organisms.

 

[Bear.Fr00t]

I've been reading a really good book called "Evolution Impossible" by John F. Ashton. I highly recommend this book to help understand what evolution claims and what is actually supported by scientific data. Might help with your questions.

 

[The Dark Knight]

Evolution in no way debunks Christianity. First, and most importantly, Christianity is not dependent on a literal reading of a certain part of a certain OT book. There is much more to it than that. But secondly, all truth is God's truth. Scientific and historical research help to reveal portions of that truth. If something we discover seems to contradict a particular interpretation of Scripture, either the discovery process was flawed or the interpretation is wrong. There's really no reason to ever oppose "science" and "religion," since both flow from the same God.

 

[Papias]

bibleblever wrote:

That is not the Orthodox stance, historically it has been affirmed that sin nature is not just a inclination towards sin but rather a sin nature passed down through heredity.

Yes, sin passed down through heredity is the Catholic orthodox stance on orginal sin. That's why the Catholic sources often point out that Adam could have been the first transitional ape-human to be given a soul by God, and to sin. Catholic orthodoxy fully supports evolution and common descent, including our evolution from earlier apes. This is clearly seen affirmations by Pope Benedict, which emphasize that evolution and common descent are fully compatible (and in fact, support) Christianity.

To say that evolution debunks Christianity because Genesis is not literally true is like saying that botany debunks Christianity because a mustard seed is not actually the smallest of all seeds (which Jesus says in Mt 13).

Of course, they are both (Gen and Mt 13) not to be taken literally, and are filled with symbolism.

Papias

 

[SayaOtonashi]

If you look at the Hebrew word day which is yom it doesn't only mean day.

Word Study Yom

 

[pshun2404]

That is not the Orthodox stance, historically it has been affirmed that sin nature is not just a inclination towards sin but rather a sin nature passed down through heredity.

The Orthodox stand as it has been explained to me by Orthodox leaders is that death (the consequence of and not judicial punishment for sin) is what is inherited...not a sinful nature but a corrupted nature which wills to be lord of its own life deciding good and evil for itself in disregard for God or His word.

Also God did not say if you eat I will punish you for what you did, He warned them out of love like as if we say to our children "Do not run out into the highway for in the day you do you'll get killed"...He was telling them of the danger so they would avoid it because He loved them...but they acted through their free will...when Adam partook of the fruit of this knowledge from Eve, he sinned right then and there already knowing he was disobeying his Abba (his Dad)...he did not become fallen only after eating...he already acted as a god (Genesis 3:5) in disregard for the plenary word he knew and had heard for himself...and he partook anyway...

We inherit death not Adam's sin not the guilt of his sin (God says in the law and the prophets that He does not hold the sins of the fathers against the children...the soul that sins, IT must die...for its own sin not that of his/her ancestors)

In His love

Paul

 

[WisdomTree]

So long as the theory does not say that the "human soul" was the result of the evolutionary process, it is not contradictory with Christianity.

 

[elopez]

If evolution is correct, which I personally believe it to be, then that shines some serious doubt on the validity of Genesis.

Evolution only causes a problem for those who read Genesis literally. If we read it the way it is written, in poetic form, there is no such issue.

If Genesis isn't true, then how could man have fallen, and if man didn't fall, why was Christ even necessary?

By affirming evolution we are not denying the validity of Genesis. What we are denying is the thesis that the earth is 6,000 years old and creation took 6 days. So, Genesis is still true; God created the universe, earth, and all life, just not within that YEC time frame. There was still a historical Adam who sinned by disobeying God, and consequently a Fall. It's simply a common misconception that TE reject Genesis or certain parts of it. It's just not true.

Could it be that Genesis is symbolic of man's general sinful disposition, and that it is that sinning that separates us from God?

That is one thing Genesis is symbolic of.

 

[SayaOtonashi]

if you look like at the hebrew word used in Geneis for day it doesn't simply mean day.

Other Uses of Yom


Day is not the only translation for the word Yom. Here are some other uses.

Time

It is interesting to note that in 67 verses in the Old Testament, the word Yom is translated into the English word "time." For instance, in Genesis 4:3, it says "And in process of time it came to pass, that Cain brought of the fruit of the ground an offering unto the Lord." In this instance, Yom refers to a growing season, probably several months. Again, in Deuteronomy 10:10, it refers to a "time" equal to forty days. In I Kings 11:42, it says "And the time that Solomon reigned in Jerusalem over all Israel was forty years." In this case, Yom translated as the word "time" is equivalent to a 40 year period.
In Isaiah 30:8, it says "Now go, write it before them in a table, and note it in a book, that it may be for the time to come for ever and ever." In this case, Yom is equal to "forever." How long is forever? An infinite number of years...billions upon billions upon billons of years. If Yom can equal trillions of years here, then why not billions of years in Genesis?

Year

Four times in the Old Testament Yom is translated "year." In I Kings 1:1, "David was old and stricken in years..." In 2 Chronicles 21:19, "after the end of two years" and in the very next verse "Thirty and two years old." Finally, in Amos 4:4, "...and your tithes after three years." In each case, Yom represents years, not days.

Age

Eight times in the Old Testament Yom is translated "age." These range from sentences like "stricken in age," meaning old age (Genesis 18:11 and 24:1; Joshua 23:1 and 23:2), and other times it says "old age" (Genesis 21:2, Genesis 21:7). Genesis 47:28 refers to "the whole age of Jacob," therefore yom here refers to an entire lifetime. In Zechariah 8:4, it says old men and women will sit in the streets of Jerusalem, "each with cane in hand because of his age."

Ago

One time Yom is translated "ago." 1 Samuel 9:20 says "As for the donkeys you lost three days ago, ..."

Always

Four times yom is translated as "always," in Deuteronomy 5:29, 6:24, 14:23, and in 2 Chronicles 18:7. Always here can be interpreted as a lifetime...for instance, we are to keep the commandments of the Lord always (Deut. 5:29).

Season

Three times yom is translated "season." In Genesis 40:4, "...and they continued a season in ward." Again, in Joshua 24:7, "dwelt in the wilderness a long season," and in 2 Chronicles 15:3, "...a long season Israel hath been...". In each case yom represents a multi-month period.

Chronicles

When used in conjunction with the word dâbâr, yom is translated "chronicles" (27 times).

Continually

When used in conjunction with kôwl, yom is translated as "continually" (11 times). Once, in Psalm 139:16, it is translated continuance (without the kôwl).

Ever

Ever is used to represent a long period of time, such as in Deuteronomy 19:9, "to walk ever in his ways." Nineteen times Yom is translated "ever." The old testament uses "for ever" instead of the word forever. In sixteen cases of use of the word ever, for is placed before it, indicating a infinite period of time. I will not list them all (consult Strong's Concordance for a full listing) but here is an example. In Psalm 23:6, it says "Surely goodness and mercy shall follow me all the days of my life; and I will dwell in the house of the Lord for ever." Here Yom is translated as the final word of this verse, ever. Thus, Yom in this verse, and 16 others, represents eternity.

Evermore

In one instance, when yom is used in conjunction with kôwl, Yom is translated "evermore." Deuteronomy 28:29, "...and thou shalt be only oppressed and spoiled evermore;" thus representing either a lifetime or eternity.

Word Usage in the Old Testament

As you can see, Yom is used in a wide variety of situations related to the concept of time. Yom is not just for days...it is for time in general. How it is translated depends on the context of its use with other words.
Yom in the Creation Account

Even within the creation account, Yom is used to represent four different time periods.

1. Genesis 1:5 "And God called the light Day, and the darkness He called Night." Here, Moses uses Yom to indicate a 12-hour period
2. Genesis 1:14 "And God said, "Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night, and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years." Here, Moses uses Yom to indicate 24-hour days
3. Genesis 2:4 "...in the day that the Lord God made the earth and the heavens." Here, Moses uses Yom to indicate the entire creative week.

The fourth usage of Yom in the creation account is in the summary for each of the six creation days, "and there was morning and evening the first day". Yom is used to represent a finite, long period of time, usually either millions or billions of years. To show support for this, consider the uses of Yom by Moses.
Moses Other Uses of Yom

Moses, the author of the first five books of the Bible, and of Psalm 90, used Yom in many different ways.

1. Genesis 4:3 "And in process of time it came to pass, that Cain brought of the fruit of the ground an offering unto the Lord." In this instance, Yom refers to a growing season, probably several months.
2. Genesis 43:9 "...then let me bear the blame for ever." Here, Moses uses Yom to represent eternity
3. Genesis 44:32 "...then I shall bear the blame to my father for ever." Again, Moses uses Yom to represent eternity
4. Deuteronomy 4:40 "...that thou mayest prolong thy days upon the earth, which the Lord thy God giveth the, for ever." Here Yom represents a physical lifetime
5. Deuteronomy 10:10, "Now I stayed on the mountain forty days and nights, as I did the first time,..." Here, Yom is a "time" equal to forty days.
6. Deuteronomy 18:5 "...to stand to minister in the name of the Lord, him and his sons for ever." Again, Yom is translated as eternity
7. Deuteronomy 19:9 "...to love the Lord thy God, and to walk ever in His ways..." Here, Yom represents a lifetime. As long as we live we are to walk in his ways

As you can see, Moses used the word Yom to represent 12-hours, 24 hours, the creative week, forty days, several months, a lifetime, and eternity.

 

[SayaOtonashi]

Double post

 

[SayaOtonashi]

he Bible itself states that the covenant and laws of God have been proclaimed to a "thousand generations" (Deuteronomy 7:9, 1 Chronicles 16:15, Psalm 105:8). Even if a generation is considered to be 20 years, this adds up to at least 20,000 years. A biblical generation is often described as being 40 years, which would represent at least 40,000 years