Does Evolution Debunk Christianity?

[frogman2x]

u must have misread my statement I said ive done research for the EXISTIENCE of any supernatural deity as in logical research (not using any holy text as proof BUT using events from said text to search for the truth)<<

There is no way one can do research on the supenatural an draw any valid conclusions. They like you do start witha a preconceived agenda and since there is no way you will accet that God does exist, you draw a conclusion that also cannot be verified.

I will give you all the evidence you need---the heavens arfe declaring the gloyre oof God. Now if you can explain, logically of course, how the universe came into being apart from God, you will have soemthing to hang your hat on.

>>
it wasn't an attack on your god in specific I have read your bible as well as many others and from a non biased point of view ( seeing god as our equal and should be held to the same standards we hold ourselves to)<<

To see God as our equal proves you do not understands the Bible. You may have read it, now try studying it .

>>
If your god truly existed he couldn't be all loving for I would never order genocide on those I love , he couldn't care for all of us or why would sickness exist also I think if I was god I would make people be born with knowledge of me that way no one is doomed to hell but that isn't the case god didn't do that why??<<

That is part of the curse for man disobeying God. There is not a way to avoid the cure of the fall but ther is a way for man to avoid the wrath of "God when He eliminates this univierse and produces a new one.


>> he had the power to he must have known people would kill each other over opposing religious beliefs but didn't do anything?? also about your bible written in differing literature types I might have missed that I read books based on whether their nonfiction or fiction nonfiction I read as everything inside the book written from truth in one mindset I don't know how to explain it to a neurotypical but its difficult for me to see changes in literature types as you say so I thank you for informing me about that i will have to reread the bible knowing that so what part of the bible are narrative , poetry ,parable metaphors and allegory I honestly wouldn't be able to tell by myself any help is appreciated

You are to be commended for admitting there are things in Biblical literature that you were unfamilar with and are willing to take a second look at.

Why not start with the parable of the prodigal son(Luke 15:11-32).

I will be glad to share what I learned from it and I am sure there are many others in the fourm that will do the same.

k

 

[logicalthinker123456]

You are to be commended for admitting there are things in Biblical literature that you were unfamilar with and are willing to take a second look at.

Why not start with the parable of the prodigal son(Luke 15:11-32).

I will be glad to share what I learned from it and I am sure there are many others in the fourm that will do the same.

k

There is no way one can do research on the supenatural an draw any valid conclusions. They like you do start witha a preconceived agenda and since there is no way you will accet that God does exist, you draw a conclusion that also cannot be verified

Actually u see I was a Christian most of my life but like everyone my belief was challenged .I began my search for a god after my son died before birth I was heart broken ..but inside I felt he was still with me somehow I couldn't explain why I felt this way I would talk to my self at night so sure he could hear me.....so I felt I had to make sure I would finally meet him someday I actually started my search hoping and praying god did exist I miss Ian ive never met him but I wanted to believe one day I would hear his voice and be able to hold him...but slowly I started to see what I call "proof" maybe im wrong..i hope Im wrong...but if gods is infallible and the bible is gods word there shouldn't be any mistakes in it but comparing what I know thru science the bible doesn't line up with science but iknow science is logical while religion is emotional you must think im a religion hating atheist but really im a person looking for a way to be reunited with what was denied to me...when I went to church people would always tell me it was just god testing me and it drove me crazy ..I got a mindset of why would god kill the only thing I cared for just to test me It drove me further from him but I still searched for him I still prayed to him...I still believed. I believe actions should dictate whether we enter heaven or hell not if we believed in him.....u have to understand I felt god abandoned me so I abandoned him but I still set out to help his creations the reason I try to make people think "logically" like I say, is because as long as we are controlled by our emotions our progress as a whole is slowed...everyone on earth is the same we are humans but we build walls around us BECAUSE OF EMOTION I don't know the exact words for every emotion we feel but it is these emotions that lead to war if everyone on the world thought logically instead of emotionally where would we be now? if we had no fear for punishment for thinking a certain way(scientifically or which ever branch goes against your god) we would be a utopia everyone would only take what they need and give the rest to the needy....I think so at least because we would understand "they are me" that's how I think at least as I would not want others to cause harm to me I don't cause harm to others not for fear of punishment but because I know how it would make me feel and I don't want anyone to have to feel that.....little side note parable of the prodigal son(Luke 15:11-32) ok so if I got this right the son is us the father is god the son left and lived in sin but he returned to his father just like if we lose our direction we should always return to god I know im probably wrong so could u correct me if I am and tell me what it means?
thank you

 

[logicalthinker123456]

Well, that is a tall order. First, there are few hard and fast divisions of this sort in the bible, because they were not particularly meaningful to writers of that age. Then the bible is not A BOOK; it is actually a library gathered together and collected from various sources--so that is why there are so many different styles in it.

Then, of course, even in secular literature, there are crossover styles, which one also finds in the bible e.g. narrative poetry, or history embellished with legend and national myth. Metaphor is such a useful device, it is found as frequently in plain historical narrative as in more poetic literature.

If you want to pursue this study, look for some basic texts in "form criticism": this is the branch of biblical study that focuses on what form the text is written in.

Very often several different forms are found in the same text as it passes from one to another in a paragraph or two. Sometimes too, appearances are misleading if one does not know the context. Is the book of Ruth history, a romance or a political tract? Could actually be all three.

I will look into form criticism before I reread the bible thank you
but as for your last sentence I don't understand arnt romance and political tract genres not literature styles? how can I compare genres to literature styles if they are not the same thing? one last thing the story of adam and eve what literature style is that is it narrative , metaphor ,parable or is it not even to be taken literally (I have a lot of trouble knowing when to take something nonliterally so I would really appreciate some clarity on the subject thank you

 

[logicalthinker123456]

hi Kermit I don't quite understand your proof maybe it was a typo?? as for logical proof for the formation of the universe im still working on that but I don't understand why you said a logically apart from god, from my understanding there is no logic behind god it appears to me like people say " we cant find out how * shrugs shoulder* god must have done it" without any logic or reason behind it.. I cant think thru your mindset .. it would be awesome if I could, so could you explain your reasoning behind god being a logical explanation for the formation of the universe and if I could add a few more questions , who created god , and where was god before he created the universe and as for seeing god as my equal I understand if he exist he must be leagues above my level of comprehension but does that really excuse his actions? if it does we are not his children but rather his playthings not to be rude but that's what it looks like to me

 

[frogman2x]

>>
Actually u see I was a Christian most of my life but like everyone my belief was challenged .<<

If y ou were eve a Christian, you still are. Justa sone cnnot be u nborn naturally, noen cnnot be u nbornspiritgually. You may be aprodigal but he found the truth and returned to Hhis Father and sdo will you.

>>I began my search for a god after my son died before birth I was heart broken ..but inside I felt he was still with me somehow I couldn't explain why I felt this way I would talk to my self at night so sure he could hear me.....so I felt I had to make sure I would finally meet him someday I actually started my search hoping and praying god did exist I miss Ian ive never met him but I wanted to believe one day I would hear his voice and be able to hold him...<<

My wife miscaried with our first child also, bu I believe she is in heaven waiting for us when we get there. I think we will see Jesus first as Stephen did and we will see he next.


>>but slowly I started to see what I call "proof" maybe im wrong..i hope Im wrong...but if gods is infallible and the bible is gods word there shouldn't be any mistakes in it but comparing what I know thru science the bible doesn't line up with science but iknow science is logical while religion is emotional you must think im a religion hating atheist but really im a person looking for a way to be reunited with what was denied to me.<<

Don't confuse evolution with real science. There is no contradicions in the Bible with real science.



>>..when I went to church people would always tell me it was just god testing me and it drove me crazy ..I got a mindset of why would god kill the only thing I cared for just to test me It drove me further from him but I still searched for him I still prayed to him...I still believed. I believe actions should dictate whether we enter heaven or hell not if we believed in him.<<

God allowed yur child to die but He did not kill him. IMO, all children who have no reached the age of accountabiiyt(20 years) go to heaven when they die.

>>....u have to understand I felt god abandoned me so I abandoned him but I still set out to help his creations the reason I try to make people think "logically" like I say, is because as long as we are controlled by our emotions our progress as a whole is slowed..<<

At one tiem in my life I wuld have fel the same and might even oday if my son or grandchildren died prematurely.

>> ok so if I got this right the son is us the father is god the son left and lived in sin but he returned to his father just like if we lose our direction we should always return to god I know im probably wrong so could u correct me if I am and tell me what it means?
thank you[/quote]

"We are A son, not THE SON and Jesus did not lived in sin. He lived ina sinful world but He was sinless. All prodiiigals will return to their heavenly Father one day.

k

 

[gluadys]

There is no way one can do research on the supenatural an draw any valid conclusions. They like you do start witha a preconceived agenda and since there is no way you will accet that God does exist, you draw a conclusion that also cannot be verified

Actually u see I was a Christian most of my life but like everyone my belief was challenged .I began my search for a god after my son died before birth I was heart broken ..

I am so sorry to hear about your loss. I can understand it deeply. A little over a year ago I also lost my son. One morning, just 3 weeks after his 30th birthday, he was found dead in his apartment by a co-worker coming to pick him up & drive him to work. What made it particularly difficult to deal with is that no known cause of death was ever established. An autopsy revealed no sign of trauma such as a stroke, heart attack or internal bleeding and the toxicology report showed no sign of any food poisoning or drug overdose. And it also happened just as his life was coming together after a couple of rough years: he was getting his driver's licence, had been accepted for post-grad work and even got his first credit card in his own name. He seemed to be happy and looking forward to the future. And then, he wasn't there.

I haven't lost my faith. In fact, it has sustained me through this time.

Interestingly, though, it is said that Darwin lost his faith largely as a consequence of the death of his young daughter--a fact he could not reconcile with a God of love.

I assume, from your brief references, that you were raised in a fairly conservative (fundamentalist?) type of belief which emphasized heaven and hell. I wonder how often life's tragedies, coupled with such an interpretation of Christian faith, leads to unbelief.

Have you ever read "Why Bad Things Happen to Good People" by Harold Kushner? It's a very good read about the misconceptions we often have of ourselves and of God in the face of suffering and loss. It might help you toward that reuniting of yourself with what you lost that you speak of.

Personally, I think your difficulty is less with God than with a defective theology you imbibed about God and the bible. But I also know it is not easy to work your way out of that.

.little side note parable of the prodigal son(Luke 15:11-32) ok so if I got this right the son is us the father is god the son left and lived in sin but he returned to his father just like if we lose our direction we should always return to god I know im probably wrong so could u correct me if I am and tell me what it means?
thank you

Both the prodigal son and his older brother are us. And the father loves them both. That is the truth the older brother could not accept.

It is interesting--at the beginning, it is the younger son who turns his back on his family---but he returns and is restored. At the end, it is the older brother who turns his back on his family. But all the way through the love of the father for both sons is constant.

 

[gluadys]

I will look into form criticism before I reread the bible thank you
but as for your last sentence I don't understand arnt romance and political tract genres not literature styles?

Yes, they are both literary genres. Heck, a shopping list is a literary genre. Literature is not just what you studied in English class. Any writing is literature. And some texts do double and even triple duty.

Did you know that many children's nursery rhymes (Mother Goose rhymes) started out as political commentary? We have lost the history behind many of them, and just remember the rhymes.

(PS: Language & Literature were my college majors-so I know a bit on that topic.)

how can I compare genres to literature styles if they are not the same thing?

A genre is the form a piece of writing takes, such as a sonnet, an advertisement, a news report, a joke, etc. Style is more individual, coming from the writer. So two poets may both write a sonnet, but one may use a spare, terse style with short, punchy, familiar words and few adjectives, but another a florid style with longer, more latinate words and lots of descriptive terms. Similarly two ad writers may both write up a short ad to go onto a flyer, but one may use lots of exclamations and convey excitement about this "great deal" and another be more sober and scientific-sounding (4 our of 5 doctors agree....). Same genre, different style.

one last thing the story of adam and eve what literature style is that is it narrative , metaphor ,parable or is it not even to be taken literally (I have a lot of trouble knowing when to take something nonliterally so I would really appreciate some clarity on the subject thank you

First, I would like to understand what your emotional attachment is to "taken literally". Some churches encourage people to only take seriously what they can take literally, as if a literal meaning is more valid and truthbearing--more "real"--than a non-literal meaning.

I consider this both literary and theological nonsense.

But if this is the idea that has been drummed into you, characterizing any part of the bible as metaphorical, non-literal, figurative, may seem to be a way of saying "this is not important, you don't need to believe this, this is false." TEs are very accustomed to being told by literalists that we have tossed out the scriptures, dismissed them, no longer believe scripture, etc.

Nothing could be farther from the truth. We do acknowledge that much of the bible is not couched in terms we would call "literal" but we also recognize that the non-literal, the figurative, the metaphorical is to be taken just as seriously, just as connected to reality and truth as the literal.

In fact, this used to be the normal way of listening to scripture. From the days of the early church to the time of the Enlightenment biblical scholars immersed themselves in the allegorical interpretation of scripture. They even devised different categories of allegory and would seek to interpret every verse of the bible (even the indubitably literal verses) in terms of various allegories. Here is an example. There is a verse in one of the Psalms which says "He brought his son out of Egypt". This is a metaphorical reference to the Exodus when God brought the people of Israel out of slavery in Egypt.

So the literal meaning is "God brought the Israelites out of Egypt".
However, Matthew, in his gospel also gives it an allegorical meaning citing in in reference to the Holy Family returning from Egypt where they had fled to escape Herod.
Medieval scholars also provided two other allegorical meanings:
1. It refers to the believer being brought out of sin into salvation.
2. It refers to the soul leaving the mortal body and entering immortality.

Which of these meanings is the true meaning? All of them.

The main point here is that while the literal meaning is valid, it is not the only meaning, nor necessarily the most important meaning. It has no priority over other meanings. All the meanings are important and bear on truth.

Sometimes the most important truths cannot be expressed in literal terms. Only in poetry and metaphor.


With that in mind, while you will get differing opinions on the adam and eve story--here is mine.
Yes, it is narrative
Yes, it is metaphor
No, it is not history
Yes, it is true

 

[lesliedellow]

how can I compare genres to literature styles if they are not the same thing?

Poetry is a genre. So is travel writing and science fiction. But within those genres, different authors can have very different styles.

Within the Bible, myth is not the same thing as history, which is not the same thing as poetry, which is not the same thing as a letter, which is not the same thing as an apocalypse, which is not the same thing as prophesy.......

As for styles, to me Jeremiah comes across as being much more gritty than Isaiah, for example. In Jeremiah there is much less along the lines of, "A virgin shall conceive....." and much more about the impending threat from the Babylonians.