Does Evolution Debunk Christianity?

[Aman777]

M:>>Allow me to explain. Theologically, Christianity is based on Christ redeeming us from the Fall of man. If evolution is correct, which I personally believe it to be, then that shines some serious doubt on the validity of Genesis. If Genesis isn't true, then how could man have fallen, and if man didn't fall, why was Christ even necessary?
Could it be that Genesis is symbolic of man's general sinful disposition, and that it is that sinning that separates us from God?

Dear M, IF theistic evolution were true, we could NEVER be redeemed to God, since theistic evolution falsely supposes that we evolved from creatures which had their origin in water. This is completely UnScriptural since Scripture clearly shows that humans were made from the dust of the ground on the 3rd Day. Genesis 2:4-7

Adam was "formed" long before ANY other living creature. All other living creatures were created and brought forth from the water on the 5th Day, which was Billions of years AFTER Adam was made. Adam was made with a higher intelligence level than ANY other creature and had preeminence or first place among ALL other living creatures. This is because humans are destined to have dominion or rule over EVERY other living creature in heaven. Genesis 1:28

Adam was "formed" as a Potter molds the clay, on the 3rd Day. Genesis 2:4-7 Eve was built from Adam's rib on the present 6th Day. Genesis 2:22 BOTH Adam and Eve were "created in God's Image", or born Spiritually, Eternally, on the 6th Day at the SAME time. Genesis 1:27 and Genesis 5:1-2.

Like all people, they were made physically first, and then later were born again Spiritually. We inherited Adam's human intelligence from Noah's grandsons who brought human intelligence to the present Earth. Like Cain, on the first earth, Noah's grandsons had NO other humans to marry.

They married and produced children with the descendants of the sons of God (Prehistoric man) who were here when Noah arrived. Thus we inherited Adam's human intelligence, which is the ABILITY to know good and evil. That is also when we inherited Adam's sin, which means that we will be Judged for the deeds done while in the body. I hope this helps.

In Love,
Aman

 

[SkyWriting]

Could it be that Genesis is symbolic of man's general sinful disposition, and that it is that sinning that separates us from God?

More like it explains why we live in sin.
Because we separated ourselves from God.
Else this would be heaven. And it's not.

 

[Assyrian]

More like it explains why we live in sin.
Because we separated ourselves from God.
Else this would be heaven. And it's not.

That is an odd thing to take from a story of two people who weren't separated from God, who sinned anyway.

 

[Aman777]

Originally Posted by SkyWriting

More like it explains why we live in sin.
Because we separated ourselves from God.
Else this would be heaven. And it's not.
​

Assyrian:>>That is an odd thing to take from a story of two people who weren't separated from God, who sinned anyway.

Dear Assyrian, They were separated from God physically and Spiritually. Only God is good and immortal. To be apart from Him is to be a temporary object, subject to death. The only way to be with Him is to be in Him Spiritually. His name is Jesus. Your faith in Him is what makes you a Christian.

BTW, Scripture records that Adam and Eve were "created in God's Image" at the same time. We will meet both of them in Heaven. Like all men, Adam was first formed physically, and later he was created in God's Image, Spiritually. To list their Spiritual rebirth is an honor which is afforded very few people in Scripture.

In Love,
Aman

 

[lesliedellow]

im sorry but that makes no sense how can something be true but not " literally true"

Why do you think "literally" is there? It is not an adverb surplus to requirements. Something can be true, but not literally true if, for example, somebody writes a story to make a point, or to convey a message, and the point they are trying to make, or the message they are trying to convey, corresponds to reality.

 

[theFijian]

im sorry but that makes no sense how can something be true but not " literally true" do you know what literally even means?

A parable or fable can be true but not literally true, ie. at no point has a hare ever challenged a tortoise to a race, but that story conveys a message of truth. Sounds like it's not him who needs to retake English class.

I haven't found any proof for any supernatural deity and believe me I searched for it ALOT

Funnily enough I don't believe you.

 

[gluadys]

That is not the Orthodox stance, historically it has been affirmed that sin nature is not just a inclination towards sin but rather a sin nature passed down through heredity.

bibleblever wrote:

Yes, sin passed down through heredity is the Catholic orthodox stance on orginal sin.
Papias

So, Orthodox and Catholic both teach that sin is inherited. I am having a bit of trouble with this concept. Do they explicitly teach that sin is inherited biologically? Wouldn't that make a spiritual condition something embedded in DNA?

Or can the reference to "inheritance" be of a different sort? Is there some sort of spiritual inheritance that does not depend on genetic transfer from parent to child.

I would propose as an analogy, the way we inherit our first language. Not a perfect analogy by any means, but I really can't see a sinful nature being part of the genome.

 

[AmericanChristian91]

logicalthinker....you do know that this section of the christianforums is christian only......right?

 

[AmericanChristian91]

actually I didn't thank you for letting me know but if I wasn't here you would only have one point of view and it would have a very limited knowledgeable worth you would only learn what you already believe and I wouldn't be able to learn how the Christian thought process works not calling you different I know my thought process is different I am just trying to expand my own knowledge base more then it is I am sorry if I offended I have trouble understanding when I offend I was raised Christian I believed I was being watch all the time kind of freaked me out its only when I looked at it from a non biased point of view did I find holes in my own religion I just want to help people look at there own beliefs from a non biased view I may be doing it wrong Im sorry

Don't worry i wasn't offended, so you don't have to feel sorry

Carry on.

 

[gluadys]

I would propose as an analogy, the way we inherit our first language. Not a perfect analogy by any means, but I really can't see a sinful nature being part of the genome.

im sorry im trying to understand your analogy are you saying sin is something learned not something that is hardwired into us just as our first language is something we learn as infants[/quote]

The interesting thing about language is that we ARE hard-wired to learn language, but not hard-wired as to which language we learn. So we learn language because that capacity is hard-wired into us, but we learn the language we do because that is the one we are exposed to.

I do think it somewhat the same with sin. We are not born sinners for we have committed no sin yet. But we will. We can't help but learn to sin, just as we can't help but learn a language. We have no choice about it because we are immersed in a world of sin, with no non-sinful examples (other than Christ) to guide us, and because it is part of our spiritual nature to favour our ego over our relationships to others, including our relationship to God.

That makes more sense to me than thinking sin is inherited via the DNA in our parents' eggs and sperm.

 

[theFijian]

ok so the point is true but the story isn't is that what ur trying say? so going by that the point the bible makes is true but the bible as a whole is false ok I can agree with that

Dear me, don't you know the Bible contains many types of literature? Some is narrative, some is poetry, parable, some uses metaphor and allegory. Did you not know this? I thought you had done loads of research?

 

[frogman2x]

Allow me to explain. Theologically, Christianity is based on Christ redeeming us from the Fall of man. If evolution is correct, which I personally believe it to be, then that shines some serious doubt on the validity of Genesis. If Genesis isn't true, then how could man have fallen, and if man didn't fall, why was Christ even necessary?
Could it be that Genesis is symbolic of man's general sinful disposition, and that it is that sinning that separates us from God?

Why do you accept evolutions as a prove fact?

Are you not aware that evolution is b iologically impossible?

Do you have any evidence that Genesis is not literally true?

Can you explain how all of the matter in the universe came into being?

kemrit

 

[frogman2x]

actually I didn't thank you for letting me know but if I wasn't here you would only have one point of view and it would have a very limited knowledgeable worth you would only learn what you already believe and I wouldn't be able to learn how the Christian thought process works not calling you different I know my thought process is different I am just trying to expand my own knowledge base more then it is I am sorry if I offended I have trouble understanding when I offend I was raised Christian I believed I was being watch all the time kind of freaked me out its only when I looked at it from a non biased point of view did I find holes in my own religion I just want to help people look at there own beliefs from a non biased view I may be doing it wrong Im sorry

I am glad you are here. I think it is important to try and explain our way of thinking to non-beleivers.

I dislike the (for Christians only). That makes it a holy huddle which I don't God would approve of.

Compuserve has a "fellowship forum." You will be welcome there. Hope to see you here.
kermit

 

[sfs]

Why do you accept evolutions as a prove fact?

Evolution is a whole set of facts and theories. The core idea -- that all life shares a common ancestor -- is immensely well supported by a wide range of facts.

Are you not aware that evolution is b iologically impossible?

I'm certainly not aware of that, nor is the entire field of biology.

Do you have any evidence that Genesis is not literally true?

Yes. Humans (and other species) have clearly not been through a tight genetic bottleneck (as both recent creation and a global flood would require) in hundreds of thousands of years.

Can you explain how all of the matter in the universe came into being?

The matter? Sure -- it coalesced as the hot early universe of the Big Bang cooled. Where did the Big Bang come from? No scientific data on that.

 

[frogman2x]

Evolution is a whole set of facts and theories. The core idea -- that all life shares a common ancestor -- is immensely well supported by a wide range of facts.<<

The how about providing some of these so called facts.


>>I'm certainly not aware of that, nor is the entire field of biology.<<

The explain how the first life for(which is a guess and not a good one) that did not have bones, did not need bones and did not have a gene for bones had a kid with b ones. No gene, no characteristic. That is what Biology teaches, but you say differently.


>>Yes. Humans (and other species) have clearly not been through a tight genetic bottleneck (as both recent creation and a global flood would require) in hundreds of thousands of years.<<
That is just the usual evo rhetoric. Where is your evidence?

>>The matter? Sure -- it coalesced as the hot early universe of the Big Bang cooled. Where did the Big Bang come from?<<

That is more of the usual evo rhetoric. Where did the matter that went bang originate and where did the energy necessary for the BB originate?

>> No scientific data on that.

So you accept that it did happen on faith alone, right?

That is also impossible without an omniopentent God.

kermit
kermit

 

[Scott4Him]

Most posters on this thread have missed a vital point.

Death is a result of the fall. (Genesis 2:15-17, 3:19; Romans 5:12-14)

Without death there could be no natural selection. Death prior to Genesis 3 is unbiblical.

This makes evolution incompatible with the Bible.

 

[Assyrian]

Most posters on this thread have missed a vital point.

Death is a result of the fall. (Genesis 2:15-17, 3:19; Romans 5:12-14)

Without death there could be no natural selection. Death prior to Genesis 3 is unbiblical.

This makes evolution incompatible with the Bible.

THe bible doesn't say anything about animal death being the result of the fall.

 

[sfs]

So you accept that it did happen on faith alone, right?

Accept that what happened on faith alone? The Big Bang? I think it's likely that the Big Bang happened, because all of the physical evidence points to the universe having been in a hot, dense state. I don't accept any idea about how it got into that state bceause I have no evidence on that question.

 

[logicalthinker123456]

Why do you accept evolutions as a prove fact?

Are you not aware that evolution is b iologically impossible?

Do you have any evidence that Genesis is not literally true?

Can you explain how all of the matter in the universe came into being?

kemrit

hi kemrit first off I apologize for posting here again I just wanted to respond to what u say but cant send private messages

Why do you accept evolutions as a prove fact?
I accept evolution because their is proof for it we can observe organisms evolve ....viruses and bacteria evolve all the time they gain immunity to the antibodies of their host organism as well as medicines we make those that don't die out ' while those that do continue to reproduce in a nutshell(am I using this metaphor correctly) this is the theory of evolution (theory in science has a different meaning then theory in casual jargon in science theories are backed by logical facts such as my example of viruses and bacteria's )

Are you not aware that evolution is biologically impossible?

actually as I have stated in my answer above it is very much possible before reading the rest of this answer please do it without having your god or your theories in mind cuz it will taint your opinion thank you

but for more info evolution is simply survival of the fit enough. random mutations in the animals dna code can have drastic effects maybe not on the first but now this mutation is part of this animals genetic structure so all of its offspring will carry that mutation and as the bloodline continues the mutation has time to change the animals base structure remember this involves many generations not an over night change every living animal will attempt to reproduce some may have positive or negative mutations but as long as its able to procreate it gets that mutation into the "genepool" I have stated why I think its possible I think its only fair you tell me why its impossible

Do you have any evidence that Genesis is not literally true

reread why evolution is possible above animals were not created as is in one day it took millions of years to get where we are not 6000 years....that's my proof it isn't true....again I may be wrong I understand that....but do you have any proof genesis is literally true?(bible excluded as you cant use what your trying to prove as proof )


Can you explain how all of the matter in the universe came into being

Honestly no I cant I wish I could I try to find the answer to that almost every day you see I have higher functioning autism (Asperger's syndrome) and my interest in knowing everything about evolution psychology and the origin of matter and life are so intense I sometimes spend my whole day off researching as I lack many social skills I dedicate my life to finding the answer an altho I haven't even come close to find the source of matter(and I refuse to simply say god made it as that isn't logical as then who created god) I have come up with a few theories on how life started If you would like I can tell u some of them but as for your question. I'm sorry I cant , but you know what neither can you , you cant say something as complex as our universe NEEDED to be made by a more complex being as this leads to if god is so complex how did he come into being? was he created by an even more complex being and what about that creator was he created by an EVEN MORE complex being an so on and so forth so I end this loooonnngg post with

Can you explain how all of the matter in the universe and God came into being?

have a great day I look forward to reading your response

 

[gluadys]

also about your bible written in differing literature types I might have missed that I read books based on whether their nonfiction or fiction nonfiction I read as everything inside the book written from truth in one mindset I don't know how to explain it to a neurotypical but its difficult for me to see changes in literature types as you say so I thank you for informing me about that i will have to reread the bible knowing that so what part of the bible are narrative , poetry ,parable metaphors and allegory I honestly wouldn't be able to tell by myself any help is appreciated

Well, that is a tall order. First, there are few hard and fast divisions of this sort in the bible, because they were not particularly meaningful to writers of that age. Then the bible is not A BOOK; it is actually a library gathered together and collected from various sources--so that is why there are so many different styles in it.

Then, of course, even in secular literature, there are crossover styles, which one also finds in the bible e.g. narrative poetry, or history embellished with legend and national myth. Metaphor is such a useful device, it is found as frequently in plain historical narrative as in more poetic literature.

If you want to pursue this study, look for some basic texts in "form criticism": this is the branch of biblical study that focuses on what form the text is written in.

Very often several different forms are found in the same text as it passes from one to another in a paragraph or two. Sometimes too, appearances are misleading if one does not know the context. Is the book of Ruth history, a romance or a political tract? Could actually be all three.