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Does Colossians 2:16 refer to weekly Sabbaths?

BobRyan

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Yes, and I'm asking you to prove why you think Colossains is referring to a "shadow Sabbath".

Col 2
16 So let no one judge you in food or in drink, or regarding a festival or a new moon or sabbaths, 17 which are a shadow of things to come, but the substance is of Christ.

New Moon, and the annual Sabbaths are "shadows" of the future reality - Christ.

"Sacrifices and offerings" of Heb 10:4-12 end with the sacrifice of Christ.
"Christ our Passover has been slain" 1 Cor 5

The annual Sabbaths with their sacrifices pointed forward to Christ.

That is all I want. I know the Sabbath was created before the Mosaic law, there's just no biblical evidence to believe it was observed before the Mosaic law (Nehiamiah 9:14).

There is no text in the OT saying "Do not take God's name in vain" before Sinai Ex 20:7.
Genesis 4 -- murder is 'sin' even before Exodus 20 saying that Murder is sin.
Genesis 7 - clean vs unclean animals even before Lev 11 defining clean vs unclean animals.

Ex 20:11 pointing to Gen 2:1-3 as the time "when" Sabbath is set aside as a holy day.

Ex 16 the Sabbath was to be observed before Ex 20:8-11 Sabbath in stone.

Mark 2:27 "Sabbath made" for mankind.
Ex 20:11 Sabbath was "made" in Eden

=======================

I am glad these Sunday sources all affirm the Ten Commandments for Christians.

And Sabbath in Eden

The Baptist Confession of Faith,
the Westminster Confession of Faith ,
D.L. Moody,
R.C Sproul,
Matthew Henry,
Thomas Watson
Eastern Orthodox Catechism
The Catholic Catechism.
 
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ace of hearts

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Do you really believe this when referring to MK 2:27-28? I doubt it.
 
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ace of hearts

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Anything to draw people away from the text.
 
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ace of hearts

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He understands alright. What he's saying is you're wrong because you don't believe like him.
 
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BobRyan

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Paul doesn't say "let no one pass judgment with regard to burnt offerings/blowing trumpets/sacrificing rams on a festival sabbath".

And Jesus said "do not judge" Matthew 7.

Same rule before the cross as after.

Why are you judging and condemning?

The mere reference to the text...is sufficient cause to give rise to strong objection to it.
 
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BobRyan

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In this other Col 2 thread we see that the OP gives some clarity on the subject of Col 2...

 
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Soyeong

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I think it does, as that is the most simplistic reading of the text, and there is nothing of great strength contextually to suggest otherwise.

Indeed it does. In Colossians 2:16-23 were keeping God's holy days in obedience to God's commands in accordance with the example that Christ set for us to follow, they were being judged by those teaching human precepts and traditions, self-made religion, asceticism, and severity to the body, and Paul was encouraging them not to let any man judge them and keep them from obeying God.
 
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ace of hearts

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No it's clearly the 7th day keepers raising the issue. See Acts 15.
 
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Soyeong

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No it's clearly the 7th day keepers raising the issue. See Acts 15.

If you look at Colossians 2:16 by itself, then it is not clear whether it is saying not to let anyone judge them for keeping God's holy days or for not keeping them. However, if we look at the context of the views of the people judging them as well as the theme that we must obey God rather than man, then it becomes clear.

Colossians 2:8 See to it that no one takes you captive by philosophy and empty deceit, according to human tradition, according to the elemental spirits of the world, and not according to Christ.

Paul would never have described those who were teaching obedience to the holy, righteous, and good commands of God in accordance with the example that Christ set for his followers as taking people captive by philosophy and empty deceit according to human tradition and not according to Christ. He went into more details about what these elemental spirits of the world are later in verses 20-23, so Paul's issue was with human teachings and precepts, self-made religion, asceticism, and severity of the body, not with those teaching obedience to God.

In Acts 15:1, they were wanting to require all Gentiles to become circumcised in order to become saved. However, God's Law does not require all Gentiles to become circumcised and the reason that it requires all Jews to become circumcised was not in order to become saved, so circumcision was being used for a man-made purpose that went above and beyond the purpose that God required it for, which was actually contrary to His purposes. So the Jerusalem Council upheld God's Law by correctly ruling against that requirement, and again you should not take something that was only against obeying man as being against obeying God.
 
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BobRyan

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Amen!
 
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ace of hearts

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Paul isn't supporting teachers of the law in Colossians or any other of his letters.
 
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Soyeong

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Paul isn't supporting teachers of the law in Colossians or any other of his letters.

So if you think that Paul spoke against obeying God and that God therefore spoke against obeying Paul (Deuteronomy 13:4-5), then it shouldn't be difficult for you to figure out which one has the higher authority, which one you ultimately answer to, and which one you should follow. The bottom line is that we must obey God rather than man, so you should be quicker to disregard what Paul said than to disregard what God commanded. However, the reality is that Paul was a servant of God, not His enemy, so he never spoke against anyone obeying any of God's laws, but rather he said our faith upholds God's Law (Romans 3:31).
 
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ace of hearts

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I've no idea why you're projecting on me I think Paul is promoting sin except you're really trying to protect your law keeping requirement.

Paul is promoting neither concept of keeping or not keeping holy days. It plainly says -

Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:

It says in respect to/of meaning about. It doesn't say anything about the custom of which day if any or how it's kept.

The problem you have is a failure to recognize and accept Christians have a new and different covenant and the carrying over parts of the previous covenant you think are required for salvation in the new covenant. I can't do anything with your unbelief and rejection of the new covenant. That's your choice.

Then I have to deal with your implication Paul is a false teacher. You simply don't believe Paul was inspired by God to write what he did. God chose Paul to do as he did according to Acts 9 where Ananias got in an argument with God over the issue. God told Ananias -

But the Lord said unto him, Go thy way: for he is a chosen vessel unto me, to bear my name before the Gentiles, and kings, and the children of Israel:

You illegitimately place Moses over Paul. Paul is providing details about the New Covenant. Yes that's different and contrary to the previous covenant just like it was promised. NTL it's from the same God Moses spoke to. You have to deal with a false doctrine that God never changes. While it's true God never changes, He changed the rules as He intended before creating the earth. Reading the Bible one easily sees progression - line upon line or precept upon precept. Isa 28:10 You can argue with God about His program all you want.

You can't convince me to disregard Paul's writings. Christians call them Scripture - Holy Writ. Religious people reject anything they don't like and make up their own rules.

Rom 3:31 doesn't say we're to live by the law, when 7:6 says we're now delivered from the law or that we're dead to the law in Rom 6.
 
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ace of hearts

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hint: all the Apostles in Acts 15 -- Sabbath keeping Christians.
No. Paul jumped all over Peter for living like a gentile. Besides that those Apostles you speak about said noting about a requirement to keep the sabbath anywhere in Scripture.
 
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