• Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.

Does believing Genesis is wrong make me a bad Christian?

hedrick

Senior Veteran
Site Supporter
Feb 8, 2009
20,487
10,856
New Jersey
✟1,339,792.00
Faith
Presbyterian
Marital Status
Single
And the genealogies to Jesus? they knew better there, since its something specific, they lied then? made things up to make the gospel look better?
It's hard to read people's minds to know their intent Those were written like 80 years after the fact, and if there had been records, they would have been destroyed when Jerusalem was. I simply don't know where they came from.

They can't both be right, but perhaps there's some historical memory in at least one of them. Probably it's not to make the Gospel look better so much as to illustrate Jesus' heritage from David. I certainly assume that's historical. I'll take a look at a couple of commentaries and see if anything is known about possible sources.
 
Upvote 0

Andre_b

Well-Known Member
May 6, 2020
512
104
44
Ottawa
✟33,857.00
Country
Canada
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Divorced
No. If the author of Genesis intended the account to be historical (and I’m not entirely convinced), he didn’t know better. That’s not lying. Lying is when you do know.

Wow so you are saying God didn't lead in writing the bible and the author didn't know better? Wow. So all the dates of people's ages are just guesses and for fun?
 
Upvote 0

hedrick

Senior Veteran
Site Supporter
Feb 8, 2009
20,487
10,856
New Jersey
✟1,339,792.00
Faith
Presbyterian
Marital Status
Single
Wow so you are saying God didn't lead in writing the bible and the author didn't know better? Wow. So all the dates of people's ages are just guesses and for fun?
Remember, by the time this was written, it was surely tradition that had been passed on for generations. Thus the writer probably didn't make it up.

My theory: Note that there are two creation stories. My guess is that when Genesis was written, there were two traditions, perhaps from different parts of the country. The author might have seen his goal as preserving the traditions involved in Israel's understanding of itself and its relationship to God. Hence he wrote down both of them, rather than trying to merge them into a single consistent account. In later stories (e.g. Noah) you'll also see evidence that the author was working with more than one source.

I'm not an OT expert. There's lots of information in Genesis that scholars look at. Examples: lifetimes slowly decrease, reflecting the distance from creation. Geneologies in the OT often have names that are either names of tribes or nations or of key figures in them. Scholars look carefully to see how Israel regarded those people.

But there's no reason to think that these accounts are completely historical, or that God is in any sense the author. I understand that that idea is important to you, but there's no reason to think it's true. I've seen no arguments for it other than indignation when someone challenges it. The historical background of the patriarchal stories does often seem to have historical elements, so there may well be historical memory in them. Thus it's quite possible that Abraham and Moses existed. But there is zero chance that Genesis and Exodus are completely or even mostly historical.

It's not as if Israel was the only society with traditional stories about origins. As far as I know, most cultures had them. So it doesn't require any special explanation why Israel would.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

GodLovesCats

Well-Known Member
Mar 16, 2019
7,400
1,329
48
Florida
✟125,827.00
Country
United States
Faith
Protestant
Marital Status
Single
Yes Lucy IS a hoax. You believe there are no lies in science? Humans involved in anything will contain lies.

Problems with Lucy and Skull 1470

You just want to believe Lucy is a hoax to fit your anti-evolution agenda, right? That is what I am reading in your posts. Show me how much you understand about scientific observations and methods of research.
 
Upvote 0

Andre_b

Well-Known Member
May 6, 2020
512
104
44
Ottawa
✟33,857.00
Country
Canada
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Divorced
. This is Lucy . Simply because they have her right thigh bone and most of her right shin . That means they know what both legs looked like . The same with her pelvis . There are a lot of other Australopithecus afarensis fossils including skulls ,faces and feet . So we know what the species tended to look like even if we don’t have Lucy’s face and skull. But you creationists are never told about the other fossils which is fairly typical of creationist disinformation. Or the other fossil species and it’s not JUST THE FOSSILS. We have a lot of other information that screams out common descent especially that DNA

Well the grass is green, so succession says that the grass evolved from the green part of the rainbo.

Common part DOES NOT PROVE common ancestry. Only in a person's mind. Since both planes and cars have wheels, electronics, similar sensors, similar computers. They both evolved from a bus?
 
Upvote 0

GodLovesCats

Well-Known Member
Mar 16, 2019
7,400
1,329
48
Florida
✟125,827.00
Country
United States
Faith
Protestant
Marital Status
Single
Humans are immensely more than animals, animals don't even know why they wake up in the morning, have even trouble recognizing themselves in the mirror, can't even do the simplest things people do, they are driven by basically instincts.

The word "human" is strictly defined as a hominid closely related to bonobos and chimpanzees. You aren't talking about what is homo sapiens is or giving other primates credit for their capabilities that are similar to ours.

What makes us superior to all other animal species obviously is not biological. That does not mean there is no way homo sapiens can be part of the Animal Kingdom. I don't know why this is so hard to understand.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: Job 33:6
Upvote 0

NBB

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Apr 19, 2013
3,994
1,874
46
Uruguay
✟646,709.00
Country
Uruguay
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
The word "human" is strictly defined as a hominid closely related to bonobos and chimpanzees. You aren't talking about what is homo sapiens is or giving other primates credit for their capabilities.

We are actually more related to God, in what is worth, than to animals, our body is where similarities end, and yes animals are very less capable than people, you just need to be real, and tell people are leagues ahead of the most advanced animal, they don't even think why they are living.
 
Upvote 0

GodLovesCats

Well-Known Member
Mar 16, 2019
7,400
1,329
48
Florida
✟125,827.00
Country
United States
Faith
Protestant
Marital Status
Single
We are actually more related to God, in what is worth, than to animals, our body is where similarities end, and yes animals are very less capable than people, you just need to be real, and tell people are leagues ahead of the most advanced animal, they don't even think why they are living.

I am just saying what the word human means - a great ape species. What is so hard to understand about that? Biologically that is all we are, great apes. The other stuff from God does not change that.
 
Upvote 0

GodLovesCats

Well-Known Member
Mar 16, 2019
7,400
1,329
48
Florida
✟125,827.00
Country
United States
Faith
Protestant
Marital Status
Single
Well the grass is green, so succession says that the grass evolved from the green part of the rainbo.

Common part DOES NOT PROVE common ancestry. Only in a person's mind. Since both planes and cars have wheels, electronics, similar sensors, similar computers. They both evolved from a bus?

Why don't you stick to biology? Man-made objects are the exact opposite of the discussion topic.
 
Upvote 0

NBB

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Apr 19, 2013
3,994
1,874
46
Uruguay
✟646,709.00
Country
Uruguay
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Remember, by the time this was written, it was surely tradition that had been passed on for generations. Thus the writer probably didn't make it up.

My theory: Note that there are two creation stories. My guess is that when Genesis was written, there were two traditions, perhaps from different parts of the country. The author might have seen his goal as preserving the traditions involved in Israel's understanding of itself and its relationship to God. Hence he wrote down both of them, rather than trying to merge them into a single consistent account. In later stories (e.g. Noah) you'll also see evidence that the author was working with more than one source.

I'm not an OT expert. There's lots of information in Genesis that scholars look at. Examples: lifetimes slowly decrease, reflecting the distance from creation. Geneologies in the OT often have names that are either names of tribes or nations or of key figures in them. Scholars look carefully to see how Israel regarded those people.

But there's no reason to think that these accounts are completely historical, or that God is in any sense the author. I understand that that idea is important to you, but there's no reason to think it's true. I've seen no arguments for it other than indignation when someone challenges it. The historical background of the patriarchal stories does often seem to have historical elements, so there may well be historical memory in them. Thus it's quite possible that Abraham and Moses existed. But there is zero chance that Genesis and Exodus are completely or even mostly historical.

It's not as if Israel was the only society with traditional stories about origins. As far as I know, most cultures had them. So it doesn't require any special explanation why Israel would.

Jesus mentions Moses, so in the gospels he took him seriously, what you can say about that? are gospels story of Jesus phony? why should we trust that he resurrected? i know this is a critical thing to believe about Jesus and God, since the gospel is to believe in the sacrifice and resurrection of Jesus, this is very important to receive eternal life and be able to be a son of God.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Andre_b
Upvote 0

NBB

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Apr 19, 2013
3,994
1,874
46
Uruguay
✟646,709.00
Country
Uruguay
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
I am just saying what the word human means - a great ape species. What is so hard to understand about that? Biologically that is all we are, great apes. The other stuff from God does not change that.

Biologically we share similar things to apes and monkeys, but that is were it ends, evolutionists like to think we are just an ape with a more grown brain and thats it, we know that is not true.
It could be God just liked to make things in nature with a similar 'trend'.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Andre_b
Upvote 0

Andre_b

Well-Known Member
May 6, 2020
512
104
44
Ottawa
✟33,857.00
Country
Canada
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Divorced
You just want to believe Lucy is a hoax to fit your anti-evolution agenda, right? That is what I am reading in your posts. Show me how much you understand about scientific observations and methods of research.

No, it's because it's actually ridiculous. I was an atheist evolutionist until I studied more into it, in more detail and came to the conclusion it was ridiculous. I eventually came across creationist scientific studies which made much for sense as well as studying the bible in more detail.

I had just accepted science because I figured they were professionals and knew what they were doing, but like in many fields, money and greed, etc is involved.

Lies are hidden and then ridiculed, just like many ridicule Jesus as a fairly tale.
 
Upvote 0

GodLovesCats

Well-Known Member
Mar 16, 2019
7,400
1,329
48
Florida
✟125,827.00
Country
United States
Faith
Protestant
Marital Status
Single
It's what the world fed you up to believe, and they reject God. They need a naturalistic explanation badly. They ignore death is not the end, and that is what is most important anyway for people is to know Jesus, you need to assume a lot of wacky stuff with evolution, like animals were stripped out of their minds, and God placed within one generation souls and spirits, that is almost a different gospel in my view, because WE have a human soul and spirit.

The world observes the real things in every possible way. The real things are PROOF evolution happens in all regions of the earth and always has since the beginning.
 
  • Haha
Reactions: Andre_b
Upvote 0

hedrick

Senior Veteran
Site Supporter
Feb 8, 2009
20,487
10,856
New Jersey
✟1,339,792.00
Faith
Presbyterian
Marital Status
Single
Jesus mentions Moses, so in the gospels he took him seriously, what you can say about that? are gospels story of Jesus phony? why should we trust that he resurrected? i know this is a critical thing to believe about Jesus and God, since the gospel is to believe in the sacrifice and resurrection of Jesus, this is very important to receive eternal life and be able to be a son of God.
If you look at Jesus' references to Moses, they are all to the Law or commands, not to his life or any stories about things he did. 1st Cent Jews referred to the Law as the Law of Moses, which included not just the 10 commandments, but most OT laws. So it would be appropriate for him to use that terminology. Note that I said above that Moses may well have existed.

the people who transmitted Jesus’ sayings probably considered a Moses historical. So we need to be slightly skeptical of the exact wording. Might Jesus have said simply the Law or a command, and it ended up as Law of Moses? I think that’s possible. You can see variations of wording at least that serious in the same account across several Gospels. But still, it’s quite possible that he did refer to it as the Law of Moses. It’s also possible that there was an actual Moses who gave at least some laws.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

GodLovesCats

Well-Known Member
Mar 16, 2019
7,400
1,329
48
Florida
✟125,827.00
Country
United States
Faith
Protestant
Marital Status
Single
Biologically we share similar things to apes and monkeys, but that is were it ends, evolutionists like to think we are just an ape with a more grown brain and that's it, we know that is not true.

It could be God just liked to make things in nature with a similar 'trend'.

Evolutionists are only responsible for discovering and observing the biological details. Rejecting God is not necessary to understand what we are biologically. It is very important to understand "human" does not mean "animal with soul and spirit" because it is a biological term. The word "person" is the one that separates human capabilities from those of all other primates.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

Andre_b

Well-Known Member
May 6, 2020
512
104
44
Ottawa
✟33,857.00
Country
Canada
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Divorced
Why don't you stick to biology? Man-made objects are the exact opposite of the discussion topic.

No it's not. I'm showing you how ridiculous the evolution theory is. God made animals with similar features, some not. Just like man made vehicles with similar features some not.
 
Upvote 0

GodLovesCats

Well-Known Member
Mar 16, 2019
7,400
1,329
48
Florida
✟125,827.00
Country
United States
Faith
Protestant
Marital Status
Single
No it's not. I'm showing you how ridiculous the evolution theory is. God made animals with similar features, some not. Just like man made vehicles with similar features some not.

We are talking about nature, not technology.
 
  • Haha
Reactions: Andre_b
Upvote 0

Andre_b

Well-Known Member
May 6, 2020
512
104
44
Ottawa
✟33,857.00
Country
Canada
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Divorced
2 Peter, explains this very well

3 Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts,

4 And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation.

5 For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water:

6 Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished:

7 But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.

Same for the fake sciences. I'm not against science, just against lies claiming to be science.

1 Timothy 6
20 O Timothy, keep that which is committed to thy trust, avoiding profane and vain babblings, and oppositions of science falsely so called:

21 Which some professing have erred concerning the faith. Grace be with thee. Amen.
 
Upvote 0

Andre_b

Well-Known Member
May 6, 2020
512
104
44
Ottawa
✟33,857.00
Country
Canada
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Divorced
We are talking about nature, not technology.

We are talking about a ridiculous theory based on similarities in biological parts. As if you can't understand the same analogy in different objects.

Apes have eyes, arms and legs, and some similar bone structures, oh that means we come from apes? Sorry but it's funny.
 
Upvote 0

NBB

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Apr 19, 2013
3,994
1,874
46
Uruguay
✟646,709.00
Country
Uruguay
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
If you look at Jesus' references to Moses, they are all to the Law or commands, not to his life or any stories about things he did. 1st Cent Jews referred to the Law as the Law of Moses, which included not just the 10 commandments, but most OT laws. So it would be appropriate for him to use that terminology. Note that I said above that Moses may well have existed.

the people who transmitted Jesus’ sayings probably considered a Moses historical. So we need to be slightly skeptical of the exact wording. Might Jesus have said simply the Law or a command, and it ended up as Law of Moses? I think that’s possible. You can see variations of wording at least that serious in the same account across several Gospels. But still, it’s quite possible that he did refer to it as the Law of Moses. It’s also possible that there was an actual Moses who gave at least some laws.

So the transfiguration, we know God can do anything, is all made up too? Moses and Elias appeared, bringing to them importance? why trust the gospel at all if you are not going to believe most of what is written?

If you say because you believe in Jesus, that is ok, perfect, but its a bit weird for me.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: Andre_b
Upvote 0