Does believing Genesis is wrong make me a bad Christian?

[Job 33:6]

If we took that 1400 number that reflects 1% of the US population of scientists, we would have roughly 130,000-140,000 scientists who accept the theory of evolution. While if we supposed that 3% were Creationists, we might be looking at less than 5,000.

 

[JulieB67]

Nobody can disprove what has been proven, obviously. Proof is everywhere that the whole world and all of nature evolved over billions of years, not less than a week. Mass extinctions including the biggest flood in world history are known to have occurred hundreds of millions of years prior to the existence of humans, especially homo sapiens - the last remaining species. I simply cannot for the life of me believe what the Bible says about the Creation and timing of the Great Flood, at least in terms of being the worst ever, is more accurate than what scientists discover. But in my heart I believe the Bible is God's Word and believe in miracles, so I don't want to feel like I am betraying Him in favor of sinners. Am I screwed up about my religion?

The bible and science can co exist.

Genesis 1:1 "In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth."

We have no time span for this.

Genesis 1:2 "And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep

was
1961 hayah
hayah (haw-yaw); a primitive root [compare OT:1933]; to exist, i.e. be or become, come to pass (always emphatic, and not a mere copula or auxiliary):KJV - beacon, altogether, be (-come), accomplished, committed, like), break, cause, come (to pass), do, faint, fall, follow, happen, have, last, pertain, quit (oneself-), require, use.

void
922
bohuw (bo'-hoo); from an unused root (meaning to be empty); a vacuity, i.e. (superficially) an undistinguishable ruin:
KJV - emptiness, void.

So we see that the earth "became" without form and void.

How did it become that way even before man was created in the flesh?

II Peter 3:5 "For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water:"
II Peter 3:6 "Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished:"

That's the world flood that happened millions of years ago. You said it yourself, science states it. And as we see, the bible states it as well.

We are not talking about Noah's flood. Not one Christian is willingly ignorant about that. But not many realize that "by the word of God" -take into account what I posted about the translation of the word "was" that the heavens were of old and the earth was standing out of the water and in the water. That world perished.

In Isaiah 45:18; "For thus saith the Lord That created the heavens; God Himself That formed the earth and made it; He hath established it He created it not in vain, He formed it to be inhabited: "I am the Lord; and there is none else."

He didn't create it in vain, he formed it to be inhabited and it was.

Jeremiah 4:23 "I beheld the earth, and, lo, it was without form, and void; and the heavens, and they had no light

Jeremiah 4:24 "I beheld the mountains, and, lo, they trembled, and all the hills moved lightly."

Notice how the the mountains trembled and the hills moved lightly? This is what we consider "our big bang" This is why you can look at maps today and it looks like everything used to fit together. This is why there is no true north on a compass and so on. God basically shook the earth in his anger. No more life, dinosaurs, etc. God didn't make the mountains tremble and the hills move during Noah's flood.

Jeremiah 4:25 "I beheld, and, lo, there was no man, and all the birds of the heavens were fled."

Again, this is not Noah's flood. We had Noah and his family.

Jeremiah 4:26 "I beheld, and lo, the fruitful place was a wilderness, and all the cities thereof were broken down at the presence of the Lord, and by His fierce anger."

It was paradise until Satan's downfall.

In Job we have a deeper study if one wants to dive into it.

Job 38:4 "Where wast thou when I laid the foundations of the earth? declare, if thou hast understanding."

God is asking Job where were you if you have understanding?

Job 38:5 "Who hath laid the measures thereof, if thou knowest? or who hath stretched the line upon it?"

Job 38:6 "Whereupon are the foundations thereof fastened? or who laid the corner stone thereof;"

Job 38:7 "When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for Joy?"


Job 40:15 "Behold now behemoth, which I made with thee; he eateth grass as an ox."

God is telling Job he made the behemoth at the same time he made Job, think about that.

And anyone reading God's description of the behemoth knows we are not talking about a water ox. No ox has the tail of a cedar tree.


Job 40:16 "Lo now, his strength is in his loins, and his force is in the navel of his belly."
Job 40:18 "His bones are as strong pieces of brass; his bones are like bars of iron."
Job 40:19 "He is the chief of the ways of God: He That made him can make His sword to approach unto him."
Job 40:20 "Surely the mountains bring him forth food, where all the beasts of the field play,"
Job 40:21 "He lieth under the shady tree, in the covert of the reed, and fens,"
Job 40:23 "Behold, he drinketh up a river, and hasteth not: he trusteth that he can draw up Jordan into his mouth."
Job 40:24 "He taketh it with his eyes: his nose pierceth through snares."

There's no animal on earth today that would fit this. This was a dinosaur from the "world that was". World =age.

And more verses,

Jeremiah 1:5 "Before I formed thee in the belly I know thee; and before thou camest forth out of the womb I sanctified thee, and I ordained thee a prophet unto the nations."

Ephesians 1:4 "According as He hath chosen us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before Him in love:"

John 3:3 "Jesus answered and said unto him, "Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God."

Again in the Greek is 509 word anothen-from the first, from above, from the beginning (very first)

And this lines up with John 3:13


John 3:13 "And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but He That came down from heaven, even the Son of man Which is in heaven."

Going back to the Genesis creations of this world age we see there are two different accounts because they are different. He created man and woman and told them to "replenish the earth" The sea and wildlife were created before man and woman.

With Adam, those animals were created afterwards. And Adam is singled out because it would be through him that Christ would come. Eve is the mother of all living because it is through Christ that we eventually have life.


But the earth had to be populated before the because Cain went east of Eden and found a wife. If you search his bloodline, they are a oriential tribe. Some will say he married his sister but the bible specifically states he went to the land of Nod and found a wife.

Genesis 4:16 "And Cain went out from the presence of the Lord, and dwelt in the land of Nod, on the east of Eden

Genesis 4:17 "And Cain knew his wife; and she conceived, and bare Enoch: and he builded a city, and called the name of the city, after the name of his son, Enoch."


He left the presence of the Lord. He didn't stay around, so he couldn't have stayed around and married a sister down the line. This is not scriptural. Seth was born after he slew Abel.
I don't think these were literal days either with the Genesis creation of the 7 days.


I know this is alot of take in but wanted to show that the bible and science don't have to be one or the other. But felt led to say there is more to the word but we just have to seek it out. Once you do, it starts to make sense. I was where you were at 20 years ago.

I don't think there was a talking snake. I don't know what the serpent was. It didn't become a snake until afterwards when God cursed it.

The serpent is symbolic of Satan. Revelation nails that down.

 

[GodLovesCats]

Well of course you and I both know that nothing is ever proven in science with respect to theories. Even the theory of plate tectonics is not proven (as obvious as it is to be true).

Plate tectonics certainly has been proven. Without them, there would be no earthquakes. Earth would still have only one supercontinent.

 

[GodsGrace101]

And isn't it amazing that the theistic evolution hypothesis is rejected by those who hold Gods Word as fully inspired and also rejected by the secularists who believe in evolution w/o God!

also theistic evolution did not even come to play until the late 1860's. The Father of it was Asa Grey in an attempt to meld Scripture with what was thought as "scientific evidence".

Once again empirical science and science verified by the scientific method shows macro or Darwinian evolution could never take place by mutation preserved by natural selection no matter how many billions of years we give it!

Did I mention Theistic evolution?

 

[GodsGrace101]

The bible and science can co exist.

Genesis 1:1 "In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth."

We have no time span for this.

Genesis 1:2 "And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep

was
1961 hayah
hayah (haw-yaw); a primitive root [compare OT:1933]; to exist, i.e. be or become, come to pass (always emphatic, and not a mere copula or auxiliary):KJV - beacon, altogether, be (-come), accomplished, committed, like), break, cause, come (to pass), do, faint, fall, follow, happen, have, last, pertain, quit (oneself-), require, use.

void
922
bohuw (bo'-hoo); from an unused root (meaning to be empty); a vacuity, i.e. (superficially) an undistinguishable ruin:
KJV - emptiness, void.

So we see that the earth "became" without form and void.

How did it become that way even before man was created in the flesh?

II Peter 3:5 "For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water:"
II Peter 3:6 "Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished:"

That's the world flood that happened millions of years ago. You said it yourself, science states it. And as we see, the bible states it as well.

We are not talking about Noah's flood. Not one Christian is willingly ignorant about that. But not many realize that "by the word of God" -take into account what I posted about the translation of the word "was" that the heavens were of old and the earth was standing out of the water and in the water. That world perished.

In Isaiah 45:18; "For thus saith the Lord That created the heavens; God Himself That formed the earth and made it; He hath established it He created it not in vain, He formed it to be inhabited: "I am the Lord; and there is none else."

He didn't create it in vain, he formed it to be inhabited and it was.

Jeremiah 4:23 "I beheld the earth, and, lo, it was without form, and void; and the heavens, and they had no light

Jeremiah 4:24 "I beheld the mountains, and, lo, they trembled, and all the hills moved lightly."

Notice how the the mountains trembled and the hills moved lightly? This is what we consider "our big bang" This is why you can look at maps today and it looks like everything used to fit together. This is why there is no true north on a compass and so on. God basically shook the earth in his anger. No more life, dinosaurs, etc. God didn't make the mountains tremble and the hills move during Noah's flood.

Jeremiah 4:25 "I beheld, and, lo, there was no man, and all the birds of the heavens were fled."

Again, this is not Noah's flood. We had Noah and his family.

Jeremiah 4:26 "I beheld, and lo, the fruitful place was a wilderness, and all the cities thereof were broken down at the presence of the Lord, and by His fierce anger."

It was paradise until Satan's downfall.

In Job we have a deeper study if one wants to dive into it.

Job 38:4 "Where wast thou when I laid the foundations of the earth? declare, if thou hast understanding."

God is asking Job where were you if you have understanding?

Job 38:5 "Who hath laid the measures thereof, if thou knowest? or who hath stretched the line upon it?"

Job 38:6 "Whereupon are the foundations thereof fastened? or who laid the corner stone thereof;"

Job 38:7 "When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for Joy?"


Job 40:15 "Behold now behemoth, which I made with thee; he eateth grass as an ox."

God is telling Job he made the behemoth at the same time he made Job, think about that.

And anyone reading God's description of the behemoth knows we are not talking about a water ox. No ox has the tail of a cedar tree.


Job 40:16 "Lo now, his strength is in his loins, and his force is in the navel of his belly."
Job 40:18 "His bones are as strong pieces of brass; his bones are like bars of iron."
Job 40:19 "He is the chief of the ways of God: He That made him can make His sword to approach unto him."
Job 40:20 "Surely the mountains bring him forth food, where all the beasts of the field play,"
Job 40:21 "He lieth under the shady tree, in the covert of the reed, and fens,"
Job 40:23 "Behold, he drinketh up a river, and hasteth not: he trusteth that he can draw up Jordan into his mouth."
Job 40:24 "He taketh it with his eyes: his nose pierceth through snares."

There's no animal on earth today that would fit this. This was a dinosaur from the "world that was". World =age.

And more verses,

Jeremiah 1:5 "Before I formed thee in the belly I know thee; and before thou camest forth out of the womb I sanctified thee, and I ordained thee a prophet unto the nations."

Ephesians 1:4 "According as He hath chosen us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before Him in love:"

John 3:3 "Jesus answered and said unto him, "Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God."

Again in the Greek is 509 word anothen-from the first, from above, from the beginning (very first)

And this lines up with John 3:13


John 3:13 "And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but He That came down from heaven, even the Son of man Which is in heaven."

Going back to the Genesis creations of this world age we see there are two different accounts because they are different. He created man and woman and told them to "replenish the earth" The sea and wildlife were created before man and woman.

With Adam, those animals were created afterwards. And Adam is singled out because it would be through him that Christ would come. Eve is the mother of all living because it is through Christ that we eventually have life.


But the earth had to be populated before the because Cain went east of Eden and found a wife. If you search his bloodline, they are a oriential tribe. Some will say he married his sister but the bible specifically states he went to the land of Nod and found a wife.

Genesis 4:16 "And Cain went out from the presence of the Lord, and dwelt in the land of Nod, on the east of Eden

Genesis 4:17 "And Cain knew his wife; and she conceived, and bare Enoch: and he builded a city, and called the name of the city, after the name of his son, Enoch."


He left the presence of the Lord. He didn't stay around, so he couldn't have stayed around and married a sister down the line. This is not scriptural. Seth was born after he slew Abel.
I don't think these were literal days either with the Genesis creation of the 7 days.


I know this is alot of take in but wanted to show that the bible and science don't have to be one or the other. But felt led to say there is more to the word but we just have to seek it out. Once you do, it starts to make sense. I was where you were at 20 years ago.




The serpent is symbolic of Satan. Revelation nails that down.

I agree.
Did you get the above from a book?
I've been trying to remember either the book title or author of a scientist (Christian) that wrote a book about how Genesis has a lot of scientific facts in it.

 

[Job 33:6]

Plate tectonics certainly has been proven. Without them, there would be no earthquakes. Earth would still have only one supercontinent.

In a lay-sense it is proven, much like the theory of gravity and plate tectonics. But the thing is that, if we said that such theories were truly proven, we would be suggesting that they have no room for growth or development. But everything in science is subject to indefinite growth and development. So long as there is a fossil to discover or a genome to sequence, the theory of evolution will always have room for development, forever. And so scientifically, we can't say that it is in its final state of pure, proven completed fact. Rather it's an explanation of a body of facts that indefinitely grows.

Newton's theory of gravity was once thought to be or considered to be fact by some people. But Newton's theory basically was just grown by Einstein and added to, into Einsteins theory of relativity. But we cannot say that any theory of gravity is proven. Because if we do that, we would be suggesting a perfect state. Rather the theory of gravity is more an explanation of a body of proven facts such as things fall at 9.8m/s ^2 when in a vacuum. It's an explanation for facts that we observe.

A theory is an explanation of proven facts. But a theory is never technically fact in and of itself.

But in a general sense, yes I agree that plate tectonics is a real thing and it is a truthful theory based on observed facts of continental drift, subduction, orogenesis and more.

But to be fair, there are unknowns details in plate tectonics. Just as there are in any theory. Fine details yet to be discovered.

 

[JulieB67]

Did you get the above from a book?

Just from many people that have planted seeds for me over the years and told me to line up with everything in the bible. I hadn't even read the bible in it's entirety until those seeds were planted for me 20 years ago. Even though I had called myself a Christian and had so many questions like Genesis. But having a Hebrew/Greek dictionary can help at times with certain words because we lose certain meanings in translation. And people used to always tell me, the bible is not a history book but there are certain truths we can seek out and also apply common sense lol. Which I have always tried to do.

I've been trying to remember either the book title or author of a scientist (Christian) that wrote a book about how Genesis has a lot of scientific facts in it.

I would be interested in that title. I just think when we realize God and science don't have to be separate it opens up the bible in a whole new way as well.

 

[GodsGrace101]

Just from many people that have planted seeds for me over the years and told me to line up with everything in the bible. I hadn't even read the bible in it's entirety until those seeds were planted for me 20 years ago. Even though I had called myself a Christian. But having a Hebrew/Greek dictionary can help at times with certain words because we lose certain meanings in translation. And people used to always tell me, the bible is not a history book but there are certain truths we can seek out and also apply common sense lol. Which I have always tried to do.

I would be interested in that title. I just think when we realize God and science don't have to be separate it opens up the bible in a whole new way as well.

I used to teach our faith to kids aged 8/9 to 11/12.
They were taught that science and the bible are not enemies and do not even really conflict.

But one would have to understand that not all of the O.T. is literal and perhaps 6 days does not mean 6 literal days...otherwise we'd have a problem on our hands since it's obvious the earth is billions of years old.

I hope you can note when God is speaking and when a man is speaking and trying to teach something.

This is not true for the N.T.
The entire N.T. (except Revelation) is history.

 

[Favoredclay]

Some more questions,

Why does it matter if we evolved or was singularly created?

Is man only a physical being or are we spiritual?

If we are only physical then we have little need of God.....just throwing a thought out there

If we are spiritual then God matters more. So what evidence is there of spiritual evolution?

What did Jesus mean when he told Nicodemus we are born both of water and spirit?

 

[Archivist]

Project Steve - Wikipedia

Project Steve is a list of scientists with the given name Stephen or Steven or a variation thereof (e.g., Stephanie, Stefan, Esteban, etc.) who "support evolution". It was originally created by the National Center for Science Education as a "tongue-in-cheek parody" of creationist attempts to collect a list of scientists who "doubt evolution," such as the Answers in Genesis's list of scientists who accept the biblical account of the Genesis creation narrative or the Discovery Institute's A Scientific Dissent From Darwinism. The list pokes fun at such endeavors while making it clear that, "We did not wish to mislead the public into thinking that scientific issues are decided by who has the longer list of scientists!" It also honors Stephen Jay Gould.[1] The level of support for evolution among scientists is very high. A 2009 poll by Pew Research Center found that "Nearly all scientists (97%) say humans and other living things have evolved over time."[2]

However, at the same time the project is a genuine collection of scientists. Despite the list's restriction to only scientists with names like "Steve", which it turns out is roughly 1 percent of scientists,[1] Project Steve is longer and contains many more eminent scientists than any creationist list. In particular, Project Steve contains many more biologists than the creationist lists, with about 54% of the listed Steves being biologists.[3] The "List of Steves" webpage provides an updated total of scientist "Steves" who have signed the list.[4] As of February 10, 2020, Project Steve has 1,448 signatories.[4]

So approximately 1500 members out of, according to UNESCO, 7,800,000 scientific researchers worldwide. That is a tiny number. No wonder 97% of scientists believe in evolution.

 

[Archivist]

"human like skeleton"

You mean like Piltdown Man? Which was the jawbones and tooth from an orangutan and the skull from medieval human.

Or maybe Nebraska Man which was later found out to be a tooth from a peccary, an animal closely related to pigs.

or maybe those poor exploited humans that they used in circuses including Julia Pastrana (1834–1860) said to be “semi-human, "between a human being and an Ourang-outang”, “Darwin’s missing link”. While in reality the poor woman suffered from several genetic diseases.
Another Darwinian ‘missing link’ was a little girl named Krao Farini (1876–1926) She was first 'exhibited' in Europe in the early 1880s when she was only about six or seven years old. First, she was called an “ape-child”, then as she grew an “ape-girl”, and last an “ape-woman” What a lovely life. To better convince the public of her ape-human status she was fraudulently presented as having pouches in her mouth, prehensile toes, cartilage in her nose, and other simian features. She was photographed in a jungle setting in poses that deliberately reinforced the public perception of her as an ape-human hybrid.
Lionel the lion-faced man born in Poland in 1890, Grace Gilbert (billed as “the woolly child”) Jo-Jo, the dog-faced boy who was born in Russia as Fedor Jeftichew. He was described in advertisements as a “savage” that he could not be civilized. In fact, he was very civilized and spoke Russian, German, and English. Probably far more civilized then his jailers.

Any evidence from the current century? These are all one or two centuries old. Further, they were all discounted by scientists after errors were discovered.

 

[Job 33:6]

So approximately 1500 members out of, according to UNESCO, 7,800,000 scientific researchers worldwide. That is a tiny number. No wonder 97% of scientists believe in evolution.

Well that's why we have surveys. Obviously the world's scientists named Steve aren't going to be tracked down across the planet. But surveys suggest somewhere around 97% accept evolution.

Which means that if 7.8 million scientists, perhaps only 250,000 might be creationists (assuming the world is comparable to america).

Also, the irony is that this list is still greater in number than creationists lists, despite only including people named Steve.

 

[GodLovesCats]

Some more questions.

Some more answers.

Why does it matter if we evolved or was singularly created?

Evolution follows creation. It is not either/or.

Is man only a physical being or are we spiritual?

Humans are physical. We are members of a mammalian species in the primate taxonomic category.

If we are only physical then we have little need of God . . . just throwing a thought out there.

Wrong. God made us. We need Him for many things - survival, quality of life, you name it.

If we are spiritual then God matters more. So what evidence is there of spiritual evolution?

The Holy Spirit entered us when we were saved. There is no spiritual evolution in that sense.

What did Jesus mean when he told Nicodemus we are born both of water and spirit?

We are "dead through Adam, alive in Christ." It is about being born again.

 

[Job 33:6]

Here's another:
Scientists overwhelmingly agree that humans evolved over time, and most Americans are aware that this is the case. Among scientists connected to the American Association for the Advancement of Science, 98% say they believe humans evolved over time. Roughly three-quarters (76%) of Americans perceive that most biological scientists hold this view, according to the new study. Those in the general public who reject evolution are divided on whether there is a scientific consensus on the topic: 46% say most biological scientists think humans have evolved due to processes such as natural selection, and 52% say most biological scientists think humans have always existed in their present form.

Among white mainline Protestants, just 16% say humans have always existed in their present form. Similar shares of Catholics (13%) and the religiously unaffiliated (11%) say the same.

For Darwin Day, 6 facts about the evolution debate

 

[Job 33:6]

This is a good one too:
How many scientists question evolution?

If we take the Creationist descent from Darwin list, and file it down to only Creationists named Steve, there would only be two dissenters versus 683 pro science steves.

That's 1/3 of 1%.

0.29% of scientists.

I think the bottom line is that, any survey we look at, generally suggests a significant majority in favor of biological evolution.

 

[coffee4u]

I don't know, if the sun was not there why a imaginary 'light sourrce' maybe the stages were of different time period some short and some more long. Its possible, why the hard stance on a 24 hour period if there was no sun the first day. Maybe the 'night and morning part' was to illustrate that the periods ended and not literal morning and night.

If you came across any other piece of writing where it said
there was evening, and there was morning—the first day.
there was evening, and there was morning—the second day.
there was evening, and there was morning—the third day.
ETC what would you think?

Would you think hmm this must be some metaphor, the author couldn't possibly mean a 24 hour day, they must mean some extended period of time.
You wouldn't. You would read it and say it was a day.

Which means you are only doing that to this passage because of science and you want to marry scripture together with science.

You wont find even one scripture to back up that interpriation.

 

[NBB]

If you came across any other piece of writing where it said
there was evening, and there was morning—the first day.
there was evening, and there was morning—the second day.
there was evening, and there was morning—the third day.
ETC what would you think?

Would you think hmm this must be some metaphor, the author couldn't possibly mean a 24 hour day, they must mean some extended period of time.
You wouldn't. You would read it and say it was a day.

Which means you are only doing that to this passage because of science and you want to marry scripture together with science.

You wont find even one scripture to back up that interpriation.

I believe in the bible, but i am not certain about this, it could be something else, like i said there was no sun so how there was evening and morning?... i take genesis seriously but i believe it seems the earth is old, however i don't think evolution is true, we are designed by God.

 

[coffee4u]

Any evidence from the current century? These are all one or two centuries old. Further, they were all discounted by scientists after errors were discovered.

Like Lucy? (Australopithecus)

 

[NBB]

This is a good one too:
How many scientists question evolution?

If we take the Creationist descent from Darwin list, and file it down to only Creationists named Steve, there would only be two dissenters versus 683 pro science steves.

That's 1/3 of 1%.

0.29% of scientists.

Scientists need a naturalistic not God involved explanation, the world like it is demands it, and they came up with it, i believe firmly that there is sufficient design evidence. And knowing God... that is a big change in your mind, when you know God, you know you have a soul, this soul is not some mistic air going on has specific things about it, and is matching our bodies, you don't see even christians scientists saying this i don't know why.

For example when you see a beatiful woman, there is some things going on on your spiritual heart, that means our heart is made so we can love appreciate the opposite sex etc. There is high level of detail.

Sorry for my english if i'm not expressing very well with it my thoughts.

 

[NBB]

How could you think random change can build an eye / brain, i mean everyone says evolution is not random but listen, random change needs to build, if it doesn't build is not going natural selection to select anything, i don't believe in the capability of random change to build an eye or brain and the whole animal without it dying in millions of tiny changes that builds up with the natural selection. For me its just insane.

Also all credit should be given to God for create us, get out of my face with silly evolution being credited. Sorry!

And theistic evolution... if God made things like this, is not evolution is design, since he directed the steps then it is design then, the credit goes to God, and not just change and death.