Does anyone know what Greek and Russian Orthodox believe?

[All4Christ]

Here’s a discussion of justification by faith from the Greek Orthodox web site. What they say seems similar to the traditional Lutheran position in terms of the role of faith (though not necessarily Luthers personal views). We come to Christ entirely based on faith, but are then responsible for living as Jesus said. How Are We Saved? - Theology - Greek Orthodox Archdiocese of America While most most Protestants teach justification by faith, most also say that if you have continuing, serious unrepented sin you aren’t saved. They differ from the Lutheran position in rejecting monoergism, but that’s typical of most Protestants, too. I think the perspective on that web page is what most Protestants actually believe, even if their commitment to justification by faith would imply otherwise.

FWIW, it actually wasn't that big of a jump for me to go from Holiness / Pentecostal soteriology (and with some Anabaptist and Wesleyan influence) to Orthodox soteriology. It made sense to me, especially since my previous church didn't teach OSAS. I think the hard part was understanding it all, since often it seems like the same words mean different things between different churches - and especially between the Western and Eastern Churches.

 

[Not David]

I wonder if OP is trying to “witness” cradle Non-American Orthodox.

 

[truefiction1]

In Ephesians 2:8-9 it says:
For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast.
Then in Romans it says,
"because by the works of the Law no flesh will be justified in His sight . . . " (Rom. 3:20)
"for we maintain that a man is justified by faith apart from works of the Law." (Rom. 3:28)
"For what does the Scripture say? ‘And Abraham believed God, and it was reckoned to him as righteousness.'" (Rom. 4:3)
"Therefore, having been justified by faith . . . " (Rom. 5:1)
"But to the one who does not work, but believes in Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is reckoned as righteousness." (Rom. 4:5).
In James it says,
"You see that a man is justified by works and not by faith alone." (James 2:24)
" . . . so also faith without works is dead." (James 2:26).
Are we justified by faith or by works?
I don't believe the Bible is contradicting Itself.
We are justified by faith. That is, we are made righteous in the eyes of God by faith as is amply demonstrated by Romans. However, that professed faith, if it is true, will result in deeds appropriate to salvation.
Also, notice that James actually quotes the same verse Paul quotes in Rom. 4:3 amongst a other verses dealing with justification by faith. James 2:23 says, "and the Scripture was fulfilled which says, and Abraham believed God, and it was reckoned to him as righteousness.'" If James was trying to teach a contradictory doctrine of faith and works than the other NT writers like Paul, then he ceatianly would not have used Abraham as an example. So therefore we can see that justification is by faith alone and that James was talking about false faith--not real faith--when he said we are not justified by faith alone.

It's like I already said: we are justified by faith. But saving/justifying faith is never "alone". If there are not works of faith, there is not faith, but only the dead faith of demons.

 

[misput]

It's like I already said: we are justified by faith. But saving/justifying faith is never "alone". If there are not works of faith, there is not faith, but only the dead faith of demons.

You get !t!!! Why is this so difficult to understand by anyone who truly studies the scripture? Amazing!!!

 

[GreekOrthodox]

Why would you need or want to??

Chuckles... I once saw a high school youth group with t-shirts that had a silk screen something along these lines... yes, they displayed a picture of St. Basil

 

[Albion]

It's like I already said: we are justified by faith. But saving/justifying faith is never "alone". If there are not works of faith, there is not faith, but only the dead faith of demons.

That's the usual mistake. When it is said that we are saved by' Faith Alone,' it doesn't mean that Faith is alone. It means that we are saved by Faith and not by anything else.

 

[Euodius]

That's the usual mistake. When it is said that we are saved by' Faith Alone,' it doesn't mean that Faith is alone. It means that we are saved by Faith and not by anything else.

So... since we are saved by faith and not by anything else, then we are not saved by Christ? So Christ is not a part of our salvation?

...

And not the grace He extends to us to give us faith and not by the grace that quickens that faithful?

...

But, yeah, listen to the Systematic Theology of R.C. Sproul who specifically says that "by faith alone we mean faith with works." He goes on to explain that works is accomplished by the putting on of Christ as a garment and being re-conformed to the image of Christ through repentance. Thus R.C. Sproul defends the orthodox teaching of salvation that has been affirmed by the Church by 2000 years in the language that the Orthodox teach of it.

 

[Albion]

So... since we are saved by faith and not by anything else, then we are not saved by Christ? So Christ is not a part of our salvation?

I'm surprised that the familiar reply "We are saved by Grace!" wasn't used instead. But the two--Grace and "Christ"--are similar retorts.

I'm sure you know that when you say "saved by Christ" you are saying "Faith in Christ." Otherwise it would be an affirmation of something along the lines of Universalism. There is nothing wrong with abbreviating a complicated concept that involves a fallen nature, the Incarnation, Christ's death and resurrection, our response to all of that, etc. etc. summarized in a two-word expression (Faith Alone). We Christians do it all the time with other concepts we profess, such as the "Trinity" or "Born Again." So there is little that is different with "Faith Alone."

And not the grace He extends to us to give us faith and not by the grace that quickens that faithful?

Ah. I "spoke" too soon.

 

[hedrick]

So... since we are saved by faith and not by anything else, then we are not saved by Christ? So Christ is not a part of our salvation?

Of course not. It's not our faith itself. Rather, faith unites us with Christ, and it's Christ that saves us.

(Incidentally, this isn't my personal position. I don't accept the Fall in the Western sense in the first place. Since salvation is about fixing the results of the fall, I don't think the question we're talking about even makes sense.)

 

[Euodius]

I'm surprised that the familiar reply "We are saved by Grace!" wasn't used instead. But the two--Grace and "Christ"--are similar retorts.

I'm sure you know that when you say "saved by Christ" you are saying "Faith in Christ." Otherwise it would be an affirmation of something along the lines of Universalism. There is nothing wrong with abbreviating a complicated concept that involves a fallen nature, the Incarnation, Christ's death and resurrection, our response to all of that, etc. etc. summarized in a two-word expression (Faith Alone). We Christians do it all the time with other concepts we profess, such as the "Trinity" or "Born Again." So there is little that is different with "Faith Alone."


Ah. I "spoke" too soon.

You know I couldn't resist, lol.

 

[Knee V]

When I was much younger and an Evangelical I began to learn more about Catholicism so that I could better witness to Catholics. That ended up being the first step down a path that eventually led to me becoming Orthodox.

I am not offended that you want to witness to us or even that you don't think of us as Christinans. I felt the same way in my former confessions, and I expected most Evangelicals to feel that way about me. I became Orthodox with that understanding and expectation. As far as I'm concerned, the fact that you feel that way and want to witness to us means that you love us and care about us enough to make that effort. I don't see any reason to be offended by it.

In the Orthodox subforum we have two "rooms" specifically for people who are not Orthodox to engage us (we like to keep the main part of the subforum free from non-Orthodox teachings, and some of us may have enforced that in an uncharitable manner). One is for simply asking questions, and the other is specifically for debating. In either of those two rooms it would be perfectly on topic to ask questions and raise concerns.

St. Basil the Great's Hall

St. Justin Martyr's Corner: Debate an Orthodox Chr