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DOES ANYONE BELIEVE THAT PAUL WATER BAPTIZE ?

Discussion in 'Dispensationalism' started by Dan Perez, Jul 23, 2021.

  1. Dan Perez

    Dan Perez Active Member

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    And I say Paul NEVER water Baptized ever and 1 Cor 1:15 says so .

    All you have to do is check the Greek text and see !

    What say you ?

    dan p
     
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  2. HTacianas

    HTacianas Well-Known Member

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  3. HTacianas

    HTacianas Well-Known Member

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  4. BeyondET

    BeyondET Well-Known Member Supporter

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  5. Dan Perez

    Dan Perez Active Member

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    And what does Acts 18:6 and 7 then mrean ?

    And then there is Acts 19:2-6 , and how were rhe disciple of verse one , Baptized ?

    Looking at the Greek text , that in verse 3 , there is the Greek word BAPTIZED / BAPTIZO but the ones said into the BAPTISM / BAPTISMA of John , so what what does BAPTISMA then mean ?

    Then in Acts 19 :And having heard this , they were baptized in the name of Lord Jesus .

    Verse 6 says how they were BAPTIZED , and Paul having laid HANDS UPON THEM , HOLY SPIRIT came upon them and they were SPEAKING in languages and were Prophesying , and is this what is happening today ??

    dan p
     
    Last edited: Jul 31, 2021
  6. GallagherM

    GallagherM Well-Known Member

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    He did baptize some people, in water like John the Baptist it was only because they desired to be baptized; in water.
     
  7. Dan Perez

    Dan Perez Active Member

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    And look closely at 1 Cor 1:13 where the Greek word ME /UN IS USED , and STRONG'S , G3361 what that Greek word means .

    dan p
     
  8. HTacianas

    HTacianas Well-Known Member

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    Generally speaking, baptism refers to water baptism. The laying on of hands was to gift to them the Holy Spirit. If we take a detour for a minute and look at Hebrews 6:1-3. The writer wants to move on from the "elementary principles", and then lists the elementary principles:

    1. Repentance
    2. Faith
    3. Baptism
    4. Laying on of hands

    We see that after baptism comes the laying on of hands. It is what is known as chrismation, and gifts the Holy Spirit to the newly baptized person. There is another explicit account of it beginning with Philip and the men of Samaria at Acts 8:5. Philip baptized the men of Samaria in water, but was unable to lay hands on them. He sent for Peter and John to do it.

    And as far what is happening today, yes, it is still the practice of the Orthodox Church.
     
  9. Dan Perez

    Dan Perez Active Member

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    And I believe in Holy Spirit baptisma and in Eph 4:5 says that there is only ONE BAPTISMA which means there is only ONE BAPTIZER , the HOLY SPIRIT.

    Now all can that explain what 1 Cor 15:29 means , what the BAPTISM of the dead means .

    dan p
     
  10. Albion

    Albion Facilitator

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    Because the Holy Spirit is imparted in baptism does not mean that this is all that baptism is about.

    And we have Christ's own words on that. Consider that when he gave the "Great Commission" to his Apostles he said to them to "go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit."

    In other words, there is a human to administer baptisms, in this case those Apostles. And of course the other famous examples of baptisms in the New Testament involve someone who performs the ceremony, who baptizes a convert.
     
  11. HTacianas

    HTacianas Well-Known Member

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    That Ephesians 4:5 says there is but one baptism, it means there is only Christian baptism.

    The "baptism of the dead" of 1 Corinthians 15:29 is simply misunderstood when it is taken out of 1 Corinthians and left on its own. The writer speaks of Christ having died and then been resurrected. The "dead" refers to Christ. We are baptized into Christ. The writer says "if the dead are not resurrected why then be baptized for the dead" to mean "if Christ has not been resurrected why be baptized into Christ".
     
  12. sandman

    sandman Senior Member

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    Just some information that i pulled from my files you might find interesting regarding that verse in Mat 28:19....for what it's worth.


    The writings of Eusebius 260-340 A.D, the Bishop of Caesarea is called the father of Church History due to his extensive writings on the subject. Eusebius quotes from Matthew a number of times in his writings. He quotes Mat 28:19 as "Go disciple ye all the nations in my name” 17 times including an oration in Praise of Constantine.

    Eusebius was present at the council of Nicaea and was involved in the debates about Arian teaching whether Christ was God or a creation of God. If the manuscripts that he had in front of him were written as in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit…. Eusebius never would have quoted it as saying “in my name”

    Oration in Praise of Constantine

    "What king or prince in any age of the world, what philosopher, legislator, or prophet, in civilized or barbarous lands, has attained so great a height of excellence, I say not after death, but while living still, and full of mighty power, as to fill the ears and tongues of all mankind with the praises of his name? Surely none save our only Savior has done this, when, after his victory over death, he spoke the word to his followers, and fulfilled it by the event, saying to them, 'Go ye, and make disciples of all nations in my name.' The Oration in Praise of Constantine, Chap. 16, page 907-908 of The Master Christian Library, Version 6.02 (CHURCH FATHERS: Oration in Praise of Constantine (Eusebius))

    I used to have the names of the earlier manuscripts that quoted “in my name” but I don’t know what I did with it…
    However, the big problem with “in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit” It does not explain the deliberate disobedience of the Apostles ….since there is not a single occurrence of them baptizing anyone by that formula. All the records in the NT have them baptizing in the name of Jesus Christ.

    I believe Mat 28:19 was an early alteration to give credence to the trinitarian doctrine along with a few others in the NT that have taken place over the years.
     
  13. Albion

    Albion Facilitator

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    Very well. Now please address the point that I was making, which was that Jesus told his Apostles to do the baptizing, so Baptism cannot be viewed as something in which the unseen power of the Holy Spirit alone confers the sacrament.
     
  14. Dan Perez

    Dan Perez Active Member

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    And how will you address 1 Cor 10:2 and all were BAPTIZED /BAPTIZO unto Moses in the Cloud and in the SEA .

    All baptisms are not all ALIKE .

    Will you give me your take on this verse ?

    dan p
     
  15. Dan Perez

    Dan Perez Active Member

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    And what point were you making and write a verse that explain what you mean ?

    dan p
     
  16. Dan Perez

    Dan Perez Active Member

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    And all have see what the Greek text says in 1 Cor 1:15 !

    Lest ANY / UN should say that I had baptized for my name .

    The Greek word UN , means a DENIAL that he had water baptized .\and the answer is NO .

    dan p
     
  17. Albion

    Albion Facilitator

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    The point was that Jesus Christ himself instructed his Apostles to go into the world to spread the faith of the Gospel, make converts, and that they should baptize them.

    This means that there has to be an administrator of baptism! It cannot, therefore be done alone or that it's just a feeling that comes over the new believer, whether or not that's attributed to the Holy Spirit.

    The verses are Matthew 28:19-20.
     
  18. Dan Perez

    Dan Perez Active Member

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    And Matt 28:19 says to Go , ye therefore , and teach all NATIONS / ETHNOS , baptizing in the name of thre Father , and of thre Son and of gthe Holy Spirit .

    Look up ETHNOS and see its meaning !

    Then in Matt 10:5 and 6 Jesus tells his disciples to avoid Gentiles and Samaritians , and does not tell them to water baptize ? WHY ?

    Then in Mark 16:16 He that believeth and is BAPTIZED shall be saved , but he that believeth not shall be DAMNED .

    SO do you believe that WATER BAPTISIM SAVES TODAY ??

    dan p
     
    Last edited: Sep 3, 2021
  19. Albion

    Albion Facilitator

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    So they (or similar evangelists, according to the thinking of some Bible scholars) were to do the baptizing. Other verses that substantiate the point are Hebrews 6:2 and Acts of the Apostles 8:17. Note the references to the act of laying hands upon the candidate.
     
    Last edited: Aug 2, 2021
  20. Dan Perez

    Dan Perez Active Member

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    And how would many readers explain Heb 6:1 Therefore LEAVING the teaching of Christ , what does this mean ?

    The Greek word THE / HO is a definite article and points back to LEAVING THE PRINCIPLES of Christ .

    Then in verse 2 , also leave BEHIND the doctrine of BAPTISM / BAPTISMOS , and there is a ton more , as this is plenty .

    dan p
     
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