Does a GLOBAL FLOOD truly seem like the BEST explanation for seashells on mountains? (2)

createdtoworship

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In my opinion it is anything but laughable I think it's downright damaging.
adolf hitler - "If you tell a big enough lie and tell it frequently enough, it will be believed."

I am not the one lying to you it's the spirit of the world, the enemy (satan).

IMO of course

I believe He has lied to cover up the fact of creation.

this motivates all thought regarding evolution/creation/ID/BC and any other theories I may or may not have.

sometimes it is valid to come out with this info, so people know where you stand.

not just be rude and crude
 
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createdtoworship

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This is literally laughable.


I would not be so proud in your perspective.

the sedimentary rock layers have been with little time for erosion, don't you think that is odd?

for billions of years with no rain? Flooding? Storms?

lets start here.

secondly, I believe it was the other poster who said that I shouldn't get my info from primarily creationist sites.

but this is something you guys do to, but rather instead of creationist sites you get your info from maybe 1 of 3 popular creationist debunking sites.

so it's not that uncommon.

thirdly, I didn't learn of this from that website, but from books and teachings of steve austin:
Ph.D. (Geology), Pennsylvania State University
http://creation.com/dr-steven-a-austin

if you disagree look him up and email him.

I am emailing an evolutionist right now, (PHD in geology) so far he has been real pleasant and respectful.

he doesn't ever say something is "laughable"

fourthly, not to repeat but

I get upset about non christian evolutionists that bully other young earth christians on their own forum (this forum) by saying things like "it's laughable" just to intimidate them into not posting. In essence taking over the thread with uniformitarianism. They are not open to learn but to take over. This is a source of frustration. Please be respectful while visiting,

I would do the same
 
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Isecondly, I believe it was the other poster who said that I shouldn't get my info from primarily creationist sites.

but this is something you guys do to, but rather instead of creationist sites you get your info from maybe 1 of 3 popular creationist debunking sites.
That's just it, we don't, we go to libraries where they have row after row of books on the sciences, millions and millions of books, people who believe in thousands of different faiths accept evolution as being the best explanation, it's not a dogma it's a fact.

If you don't want to believe that then it's OK, it's perfectly acceptable for people to believe whatever they want,
but people believing what they want to believe will not however alter the facts.
People do not believe in evolution they accept it, evolution was happening for millions and millions of years before man evolved so I don't think evolution will be held up by a few dissenters, do you?

It's happening in your family now, you are a mixture of your parents and any children you have will be a mixture of you and yours, how can you or your children possibly be the same as the people who brought you into this world?
 
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Lucy Stulz

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yes I am aware, and I used your theory to disprove splitrocks analysis.

No, you used a stripped down misunderstood version of my "theory" to post something to splitrock.

You ignored the part of "my theory" that mentioned DESERT aeolian deposits. A land based deposit of dry sand dunes is really hard to get from a FLOOD.

I am almost positive that you have next to no understanding about the details of sedimentary deposits other tan the fact that they confuse YOU so you hope you can lump all this data into a "chaos bucket" and that everyone else will be as confused as you and you will make your point.

You couldn't be more mistaken. I would recommend you take just ONE sed/strat class, but the damage would be to eliminate YOUR ignorance and that is probably far too scary to consider.

Please do not try to leverage your ignorance of MY posts to try to disprove science you clearly do not even come close to understanding.

It offends me that you think you can take something I wrote to disprove science. Considering that I have taken not just one but many sed/strat classes and I know of what I speak.
 
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Lucy Stulz

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secondly, I believe it was the other poster who said that I shouldn't get my info from primarily creationist sites.

but this is something you guys do to, but rather instead of creationist sites you get your info from maybe 1 of 3 popular creationist debunking sites.

are you sure there aren't any PhD geologists debating you on this site here?
 
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createdtoworship

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That's just it, we don't, we go to libraries where they have row after row of books on the sciences, millions and millions of books, people who believe in thousands of different faiths accept evolution as being the best explanation, it's not a dogma it's a fact.

If you don't want to believe that then it's OK, it's perfectly acceptable for people to believe whatever they want,
but people believing what they want to believe will not however alter the facts.
People do not believe in evolution they accept it, evolution was happening for millions and millions of years before man evolved so I don't think evolution will be held up by a few dissenters, do you?

It's happening in your family now, you are a mixture of your parents and any children you have will be a mixture of you and yours, how can you or your children possibly be the same as the people who brought you into this world?

well now that would be an appeal to authority.

a classic and failing fallacy of debate my friend.

oops I take that back,

this comment commited the fallacy:
we go to libraries where they have row after row of books on the sciences, millions and millions of books, people who believe in thousands of different faiths accept evolution as being the best explanation, it's not a dogma it's a fact.

I may as well say, that much of america is of a republican mindset, therefore it's a fact. Or democrat for that matter.
 
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createdtoworship

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Perhaps for one who has never darkened the door of a geology class.

I suppose you mean public school? Homeschooling was all there was for many many generations.

here are some people who either didn't pay taxes outright for public education, or where simply homeschooled:



Scientists

· George Washington Carver

· Pierre Curie

· Albert Einstein

· Michael Faraday - electrochemist

· Oliver Heaviside - physicist and electromagnetism researcher

· T.H. Huxley

· Blaise Pascal

· Booker T. Washington

· Erik Demaine - Popular Science Mag: One of the Most Brilliant Scientists in America
 
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Herman Hedning

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I suppose you mean public school? Homeschooling was all there was for many many generations.

here are some people who either didn't pay taxes outright for public education, or where simply homeschooled:

Scientists

· George Washington Carver
· Pierre Curie
· Albert Einstein
· Michael Faraday - electrochemist
· Oliver Heaviside - physicist and electromagnetism researcher
· T.H. Huxley
· Blaise Pascal
· Booker T. Washington
· Erik Demaine - Popular Science Mag: One of the Most Brilliant Scientists in America

That's quite a mix of people you've got there. Do you have a point in putting them together like that?
 
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Lucy Stulz

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I suppose you mean public school? Homeschooling was all there was for many many generations.

here are some people who either didn't pay taxes outright for public education, or where simply homeschooled:



Scientists

· George Washington Carver

· Pierre Curie

· Albert Einstein

· Michael Faraday - electrochemist

· Oliver Heaviside - physicist and electromagnetism researcher

· T.H. Huxley

· Blaise Pascal

· Booker T. Washington

· Erik Demaine - Popular Science Mag: One of the Most Brilliant Scientists in America

No I mean just any professionally taught geology class, preferably university level.

And pleas do not confuse most creationists on these boards with the likes of Einstein and Pascal.

Homeschooling is fine if the people doing the teaching know what they are teaching.
 
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Lucy Stulz

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That's quite a mix of people you've got there. Do you have a point in putting them together like that?

It is a fallcy of equivocation. Because many YEC are homeschooled and Pierre Curie was perhas homeschooled we are to assume most yec are as smart as Pierre Curie.

Ironically enough the work on radioactive decay that Curie and his wife undertook would easily be out of the skillset and abilities of most yec.
 
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createdtoworship

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It is a fallcy of equivocation. Because many YEC are homeschooled and Pierre Curie was perhas homeschooled we are to assume most yec are as smart as Pierre Curie.

Ironically enough the work on radioactive decay that Curie and his wife undertook would easily be out of the skillset and abilities of most yec.

equivocation is same word, different meanings. homeschool is homeschool, but however the fallacy would be nonsequitor, doesn't follow. That would be your only argument because you would debate that some homeschooling is more successfull than others, and that may be true however homeschooling is generally more successful (generally speaking). And this is all I was saying.
 
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createdtoworship

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No I mean just any professionally taught geology class, preferably university level.

And pleas do not confuse most creationists on these boards with the likes of Einstein and Pascal.

Homeschooling is fine if the people doing the teaching know what they are teaching.

blaise pascal was a great creationist actually,

here is some biography of him on Great Creation Scientists: Blaise Pascal (1623–1662) - Answers in Genesis


In 1646, Pascal joined the Jansenists—a group of Catholics in France who believed as Calvin did on some doctrines, including salvation through God’s love and grace, rather than through good works. Pascal believed that ‘There is a God-shaped vacuum in the heart of every man which cannot be filled by any created thing, but only by God the Creator, made known through Jesus Christ.’4 Pascal wholeheartedly believed that the events described in the book of Genesis were actual historical events. The Encyclopaedia Britannica states that Pascal believed ‘man’s wretchedness is explicable only as an effect of the Fall’5 and that ‘For Pascal as for St Paul, Jesus Christ is the second Adam, inconceivable without the first.’5

Now a committed Christian, Pascal continued his work in science and mathematics. Pascal’s experiments with the barometer proved the now familiar facts that atmospheric pressure (as shown by the height of the mercury in the barometer) decreases as altitude increases, and also changes as the weather changes. Pascal made a valuable contribution to developing both hydrostatics and hydrodynamics.6 He showed that the ‘pressure applied to a confined liquid is transmitted undiminished through the liquid in all directions, regardless of the area to which the pressure is applied.’ This is known as Pascal’s Law and is the principle behind the hydraulic press, which Pascal designed. During these experiments with fluids, Pascal invented the syringe.

Pascal also investigated the cycloid—the curve formed by a point on the circumference of a circle as the circle rolls along a straight line. Pascal’s discovery of many physical and mathematical properties of the cycloid was an important step towards the later development of calculus by others.
Theory of Probability

Pascal also worked with another mathematician, Fermat, on the Theory of Probability. Letters between the two ‘show that Pascal and Fermat participated equally in the creation of the theory.’7 Although their investigations were carried out on various gambling situations, this theory has an immense number of applications. It is the basis of all insurance schemes and it is of great value to many other branches of science such as quantum physics, where the behaviour of particles can be described using probabilities. Pascal invented a simple method now known as Pascal’s Triangle to determine the probability of certain outcomes.
Recommitment

Pascal attended parties where gambling was being conducted, and unfortunately became distracted by this lifestyle. However, Pascal had a narrow escape from death in 1654, when the horses pulling his carriage bolted. The horses were killed, but Pascal was unhurt. Convinced that it was God who had saved him, he reassessed how he was living. From then on,

‘From the age of thirty-one to the day of his death, at the age of thirty-nine, he had but one desire: he lived that he might turn the thoughts of men to his Saviour.’8

At this time of recommitment to God, Pascal wrote:

‘Certainty! Joy! Peace!

‘I forget the world and everything but God! . . .

‘I submit myself absolutely to Jesus Christ my Redeemer.’9

Much of Pascal’s last few years was devoted to his religious writings. He wrote a famous series of 18 letters known as the ‘Provincial Letters,’ considered by critics to mark the beginning of modern French prose. Pascal also wrote the outstanding book Pensees (French for ‘thoughts’) in which he argues the case for his Christian beliefs.10

Pascal recognized that man could not arrive at all knowledge by his own wisdom. He wrote that ‘Faith tells us what the senses cannot, but it is not contradictory to their findings.’11 He also recognized that God was more than just the Creator—He was a loving, personal God as well—‘the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, the God of Jacob, the God of the Christians is a God of love and consolation.’12

Pascal is famous for the statement known as Pascal’s Wager in which he applied his thinking in terms of probabilities to the question of salvation. Pascal’s Wager paraphrased is:

‘How can anyone lose who chooses to become a Christian? If, when he dies, there turns out to be no God and his faith was in vain, he has lost nothing—in fact, he has been happier in life than his non-believing friends. If, however, there is a God and a heaven and hell, then he has gained heaven and his skeptical friends will have lost everything in hell.’13

When approaching his death, Pascal wrote: ‘And so I stretch forth my hands to my Redeemer, who came to earth to suffer and die for me.’14 Pascal died on 19 August 1662, in Paris. Despite a short life with constant sickness and pain, this devout Christian made outstanding contributions to science, mathematics, and literature.
Pascal’s Triangle
Row
0

1

1 1 1
2 1 2 1
3 1 3 3 1
4 1 4 6 4 1
5 1 5 10 10 5 1
6 1 6 15 20 15 6 1

Pascal’s triangle is constructed very simply—each number in the triangle is the sum of the two number(s) immediately above it. It is very useful for finding the probability of events where there are only two possible outcomes. This includes tossing a coin (head or tail) or having a child (boy or girl). For example, if a coin is tossed three times, there are eight (2x2x2 or 23) possibilities:
HHH HHT HTH THH TTH THT HTT TTT

If we look at Row 3 of the triangle, we see the numbers 1,3,3,1. This tells us that there is only one way of obtaining all heads or all tails, but three ways of obtaining two heads and one tail, or two tails and one head. Translated to probabilities, the chances of the possible outcomes are:
3H—1/8
(one chance in eight) 2H1T—3/8 2T1H—3/8 3T—1/8

Looking at Row 4, we can see that for families with four children, one daughter and three sons is four times as common as having four sons and no daughters, while families with two sons and two daughters are six times as common. There is only one chance in 16 (24) of a four-child family having all sons or all daughters. And so on.

ANN LAMONT, B.Sc., M.Ed.St. was for many years a teacher of mathematics and science, and a researcher in education. She is the author of 21 Great Scientists who Believed the Bible (CSF, October 1995).
 
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createdtoworship

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blaise pascal was a great creationist actually,

here is some biography of him on Great Creation Scientists: Blaise Pascal (1623–1662) - Answers in Genesis


In 1646, Pascal joined the Jansenists—a group of Catholics in France who believed as Calvin did on some doctrines, including salvation through God’s love and grace, rather than through good works. Pascal believed that ‘There is a God-shaped vacuum in the heart of every man which cannot be filled by any created thing, but only by God the Creator, made known through Jesus Christ.’4 Pascal wholeheartedly believed that the events described in the book of Genesis were actual historical events. The Encyclopaedia Britannica states that Pascal believed ‘man’s wretchedness is explicable only as an effect of the Fall’5 and that ‘For Pascal as for St Paul, Jesus Christ is the second Adam, inconceivable without the first.’5

Now a committed Christian, Pascal continued his work in science and mathematics. Pascal’s experiments with the barometer proved the now familiar facts that atmospheric pressure (as shown by the height of the mercury in the barometer) decreases as altitude increases, and also changes as the weather changes. Pascal made a valuable contribution to developing both hydrostatics and hydrodynamics.6 He showed that the ‘pressure applied to a confined liquid is transmitted undiminished through the liquid in all directions, regardless of the area to which the pressure is applied.’ This is known as Pascal’s Law and is the principle behind the hydraulic press, which Pascal designed. During these experiments with fluids, Pascal invented the syringe.

Pascal also investigated the cycloid—the curve formed by a point on the circumference of a circle as the circle rolls along a straight line. Pascal’s discovery of many physical and mathematical properties of the cycloid was an important step towards the later development of calculus by others.
Theory of Probability

Pascal also worked with another mathematician, Fermat, on the Theory of Probability. Letters between the two ‘show that Pascal and Fermat participated equally in the creation of the theory.’7 Although their investigations were carried out on various gambling situations, this theory has an immense number of applications. It is the basis of all insurance schemes and it is of great value to many other branches of science such as quantum physics, where the behaviour of particles can be described using probabilities. Pascal invented a simple method now known as Pascal’s Triangle to determine the probability of certain outcomes.
Recommitment

Pascal attended parties where gambling was being conducted, and unfortunately became distracted by this lifestyle. However, Pascal had a narrow escape from death in 1654, when the horses pulling his carriage bolted. The horses were killed, but Pascal was unhurt. Convinced that it was God who had saved him, he reassessed how he was living. From then on,

‘From the age of thirty-one to the day of his death, at the age of thirty-nine, he had but one desire: he lived that he might turn the thoughts of men to his Saviour.’8

At this time of recommitment to God, Pascal wrote:

‘Certainty! Joy! Peace!

‘I forget the world and everything but God! . . .

‘I submit myself absolutely to Jesus Christ my Redeemer.’9

Much of Pascal’s last few years was devoted to his religious writings. He wrote a famous series of 18 letters known as the ‘Provincial Letters,’ considered by critics to mark the beginning of modern French prose. Pascal also wrote the outstanding book Pensees (French for ‘thoughts’) in which he argues the case for his Christian beliefs.10

Pascal recognized that man could not arrive at all knowledge by his own wisdom. He wrote that ‘Faith tells us what the senses cannot, but it is not contradictory to their findings.’11 He also recognized that God was more than just the Creator—He was a loving, personal God as well—‘the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, the God of Jacob, the God of the Christians is a God of love and consolation.’12

Pascal is famous for the statement known as Pascal’s Wager in which he applied his thinking in terms of probabilities to the question of salvation. Pascal’s Wager paraphrased is:

‘How can anyone lose who chooses to become a Christian? If, when he dies, there turns out to be no God and his faith was in vain, he has lost nothing—in fact, he has been happier in life than his non-believing friends. If, however, there is a God and a heaven and hell, then he has gained heaven and his skeptical friends will have lost everything in hell.’13

When approaching his death, Pascal wrote: ‘And so I stretch forth my hands to my Redeemer, who came to earth to suffer and die for me.’14 Pascal died on 19 August 1662, in Paris. Despite a short life with constant sickness and pain, this devout Christian made outstanding contributions to science, mathematics, and literature.
Pascal’s Triangle
Row
0

1

1 1 1
2 1 2 1
3 1 3 3 1
4 1 4 6 4 1
5 1 5 10 10 5 1
6 1 6 15 20 15 6 1

Pascal’s triangle is constructed very simply—each number in the triangle is the sum of the two number(s) immediately above it. It is very useful for finding the probability of events where there are only two possible outcomes. This includes tossing a coin (head or tail) or having a child (boy or girl). For example, if a coin is tossed three times, there are eight (2x2x2 or 23) possibilities:
HHH HHT HTH THH TTH THT HTT TTT

If we look at Row 3 of the triangle, we see the numbers 1,3,3,1. This tells us that there is only one way of obtaining all heads or all tails, but three ways of obtaining two heads and one tail, or two tails and one head. Translated to probabilities, the chances of the possible outcomes are:
3H—1/8
(one chance in eight) 2H1T—3/8 2T1H—3/8 3T—1/8

Looking at Row 4, we can see that for families with four children, one daughter and three sons is four times as common as having four sons and no daughters, while families with two sons and two daughters are six times as common. There is only one chance in 16 (24) of a four-child family having all sons or all daughters. And so on.

ANN LAMONT, B.Sc., M.Ed.St. was for many years a teacher of mathematics and science, and a researcher in education. She is the author of 21 Great Scientists who Believed the Bible (CSF, October 1995).

here are some quotes from Pascal during his essay pensees courtesy of oregon state university:
blaise pascal said:
314. God has created all for Himself. He has bestowed upon Himself the power of pain and pleasure.

blaise pascal said:
"Lift your eyes to God," say the first; "see Him whom you resemble and who has created you to worship Him. You can make yourselves like unto Him; wisdom will make you equal to Him, if you will follow it."

blaise pascal- suggesting his audience all believed we to be creations of God said:
479. If there is a God, we must love Him only and not the creatures of a day. The reasoning of the ungodly in the Book of Wisdom is only based upon the nonexistence of God. "On that supposition," say they, "let us take delight in the creatures." That is the worst that can happen. But if there were a God to love, they would not have come to this conclusion, but to quite the contrary. And this is the conclusion of the wise: "There is a God; let us therefore not take delight in the creatures."
Therefore all that incites us to attach ourselves to the creatures is bad; since it prevents us from serving God if we know Him, or from seeking Him if we know Him not. Now we are full of lust. Therefore we are full of evil; therefore we ought to hate ourselves and all that excited us to attach ourselves to any other object than God only.

oh and I forgot the flood:

blaise pascal said:
The miracles of the Creation and the Deluge being forgotten, God sends the law and the miracles of Moses, the prophets who prophesied particular things; and to prepare a lasting miracle, He prepares prophecies and their fulfilment; but, as the prophecies could be suspected, He desires to make them above suspicion, etc.
 
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But then Blaise Pascal was not acquainted with modern geology.

Again I shudder to think someone could leverage their ignorance of one topic in such a way as to conflate themselves with a famous mathematician and somehw draw a conclusion that it would make their yec stance any more reasonable from a scientific standpoint.
 
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here are some quotes from Pascal during his essay pensees courtesy of oregon state university:






oh and I forgot the flood:

The vast majority of people from the 17th Century were strict creationists, scientists and mathematicians included. Of course, most also believed bloodletting was a viable treatment for most illness.
 
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Joshua0035

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homeschooling is generally more successful
That is not saying much when so many big city schools can not even manage to graduate half of their students. When one of the biggest problems is students having to cross gang lines in order to get to school. Public education for the most part is failing to get the job done.
 
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The vast majority of people from the 17th Century were strict creationists, scientists and mathematicians included. Of course, most also believed bloodletting was a viable treatment for most illness.
You can chart "facts" to see how many years it will be when they will no longer be considered: facts.
It's all very consistent. Facts in Science have a short life span.

51EyRQNMLGL._BO2,204,203,200_PIsitb-sticker-arrow-click,TopRight,35,-76_AA300_SH20_OU01_.jpg
 
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rikerjoe

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You can chart "facts" to see how many years it will be when they will no longer be considered: facts.
It's all very consistent. Facts in Science have a short life span.

Rubbish. Facts are facts and doesn't change.

Conclusions and inference drawn from facts may change as new facts emerge or methods to analyse the facts improve, but that in no way changes or invalidates any facts.
 
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