Do your best to explain Romans 5

[yeshuaslavejeff]

My understanding is that when a person repents, makes Jesus Lord in one's life, he/she is given the Holy Spirit and is born again. If we live in an obedience/love/faith relationship with Christ, we know we are born again.

Is there any example in the NT of someone "making Jesus Lord" of their life ?

I think, AS WRITTEN, they must be born again by the will of the Father in heaven, not by the will of man (not by their own will by any means), nor by the will of the flesh (not by anything temporal).....

What they do cannot save themselves; only the Father Himself accomplishes their salvation. Only He is able to, as written.

 

[zoidar]

Is there any example in the NT of someone "making Jesus Lord" of their life ?

I think, AS WRITTEN, they must be born again by the will of the Father in heaven, not by the will of man (not by their own will by any means), nor by the will of the flesh (not by anything temporal).....

What they do cannot save themselves; only the Father Himself accomplishes their salvation. Only He is able to, as written.

When a person gives Jesus his/her life, the Father saves the person, it's not our doing, it's a gift.

Paul explains this in Romans 10:9-10

"if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved, for with the heart a person believes, resulting in righteousness and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation"

Simply believe is not enough, you need to confess Jesus as Lord in your life to be saved, i.o.w make him Lord.

Colossians 2
6 Therefore as you have received Christ Jesus the Lord, so walk in Him.

You have to receive Jesus. That is done by giving him your life. This is also my experience, how I was saved.

 

[corinth77777]

My understanding is that when a person repents, makes Jesus Lord in one's life, he/she is given the Holy Spirit and is born again. If we live in an obedience/love/faith relationship with Christ, we know we are born again.

Can a man be born again more than once?

 

[corinth77777]

When a person gives Jesus his/her life, the Father saves the person, it's not our doing, it's a gift.

Paul explains this in Romans 10:9-10

"if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved, for with the heart a person believes, resulting in righteousness and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation"

Simply believe is not enough, you need to confess Jesus as Lord in your life to be saved, i.o.w make him Lord.

Colossians 2
6 Therefore as you have received Christ Jesus the Lord, so walk in Him.

You have to receive Jesus. That is done by giving him your life. This is also my experience, how I was saved.

I think I see where you are going.
For there is a scripture that says
And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.John 6;40
One may then presume that the confession is because one has been in contact with Christ. Or one could say...the heart has made Christ Lord intending to follow /and or following ...therefore sins are forgiven and confession is made unto that righteousnes....cleansing therefore right standing before God.
Yet do you believe in order to maintain God's protection one must stay connected by their effort to continue in surrendering their will to Him....?
I also see what the other fellow is trying to say...At least I think he means nothing we do is on our own....But that would go without saying seeing that no one can confess Jesus is Lord with the holyspirit....

 

[corinth77777]

My understanding is that when a person repents, makes Jesus Lord in one's life, he/she is given the Holy Spirit and is born again. If we live in an obedience/love/faith relationship with Christ, we know we are born again.

"Live in" meaning obedient to....?
Do you believe a man can be born from above more than once?

 

[zoidar]

"Live in" meaning obedient to....?
Do you believe a man can be born from above more than once?

Live in an obedient/love/faith relationship = having an O/L/F/R with Christ

I see two possibilities about the new birth. It's clear in the Bible that a person that is lead astray can come back to Christ. So either that person can be born again a second time, or a person can return to Christ as long as the Holy Spirit is still with that person. But then the conclusion is that a person can be lost even he/she has the Holy Spirit, so I'm not sure. What do you think?

 

[zoidar]

Yet do you believe in order to maintain God's protection one must stay connected by their effort to continue in surrendering their will to Him....

I believe God wants to protect us, but it's hard to do if we walk away from Him. So for me the ongoing relationship is important, through love, faith, trust and also obedience and effort, to stay near Him in times of trouble. God wants us on the vine, He waters our hearts with the Holy Spirit. I think even if we walk away from God, He wants to pull us back. He loves all people and I believe He even protects unbelievers.

 

[corinth77777]

Live in an obedient/love/faith relationship = having an O/L/F/R with Christ

I see two possibilities about the new birth. It's clear in the Bible that a person that is lead astray can come back to Christ. So either that person can be born again a second time, or a person can return to Christ as long as the Holy Spirit is still with that person. But then the conclusion is that a person can be lost even he/she has the Holy Spirit, so I'm not sure. What do you think?

I'm not sure...lol that's why I asked you..
But my thoughts are....yes
For if I must repent and God forgives me I am renewed [born],[connected]
For as I have yet to receive a new body, and a goal in this life is to be transformed by the renewing of the mind then then this also involved grace.
If Grace allows what has fallen to be connected again....then I would think one can have many born again experiences.

 

[corinth77777]

I'm not sure...lol that's why I asked you..
But my thoughts are....yes
For if I must repent and God forgives me I am renewed [born],[connected]
For as I have yet to receive a new body, and a goal in this life is to be transformed by the renewing of the mind then then this also involved grace.
If Grace allows what has fallen to be connected again....then I would think one can have many born again experiences.

I guess then the question is having been connected to Christ are we always connected to the Father? I think the connection with the father is a born again moment. Putting away the Flesh by the Spirit of Christ......But What is it that allows one to have the Spirit of God....and I believe it's when both the heart and flesh are cleansed or are being cleaned.

 

[corinth77777]

I guess then the question is having been connected to Christ are we always connected to the Father? I think the connection with the father is a born again moment. Putting away the Flesh by the Spirit of Christ......But What is it that allows one to have the Spirit of God....and I believe it's when both the heart and flesh are cleansed or are being cleaned.

Romans 8;9
However, you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you But if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Him.

Anyway these are just my thoughts

 

[corinth77777]

Romans 8;9
However, you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you But if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Him.

Anyway these are just my thoughts

One last Add....this thought just came to me; the meaning of being born of water and Spirit...cleansed by the Father and the son

 

[corinth77777]

Is there any example in the NT of someone "making Jesus Lord" of their life ?

I think, AS WRITTEN, they must be born again by the will of the Father in heaven, not by the will of man (not by their own will by any means), nor by the will of the flesh (not by anything temporal).....

What they do cannot save themselves; only the Father Himself accomplishes their salvation. Only He is able to, as written.

Yes, any time they obey the word

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

Yes, any time they obey the word

Actually, remember in the TORAH, the Ekklesia of Yahweh at one particular time as written OBEYED HIM,
and THEN HE PUNISHED THEM,
because they grumbled and complained before/ while/ obeying ......
so Ekklesia today also might (often?) obey the word, and still be punished, for grumbling (having a heart not after God? doing things (obeying the word) FOR SHOW ? )

On judgment day, too late for them, many are told who thought they obeyed, "be gone .." the worse thing and the final thing they ever hear.
Hopefully, before judgment day, while still alive on earth before they die, anyone in that 'condition' will turn to Yahweh and hear His Voice and not harden their heart as they did in the wilderness when they rebelled against Him.

 

[corinth77777]

Romans 8;9
However, you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you But if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Him.

Anyway these are just my thoughts

Interesting enough, the English American version is missing a passage that the king James version Has....in Romans 8:1
........, who walk not after the flesh, but after the spirit.

So it beggs the surrounding ideas that may be held, of what it means to be in Christ.
As: Can one be in Christ and still be under condemnation? According to Galations 5:6 "in Christ" what matters is faith working through love. Also 5;16 ,25 one is instructed to, "walk in the spirit." .....
"If we live in the Spirit we should also walk in the Spirit."
Then back to Romans 8:2, if one ask what is the law of the spirit of life? but could it be that we walk in the Spirit.
And If we do, just maybe we our not held under the condemnation of the law? So back to original thought
And verse 4 explains it all...."that the righteous requirements of the law might be fillfilled in us who.......walk after the Spirit.
So to walk is defined in Romans 8;6
It's almost as the action itself....it's intending to follow, as Abraham intended to slay His son in obedience.
So with this said, what is the Spirit of God? Could it be Peace/"life" vs. 10 /Joy?

If so what can we presume?
To be continued

 

[zoidar]

Interesting enough, the English American version is missing a passage that the king James version Has....in Romans 8:1
........, who walk not after the flesh, but after the spirit.

So it beggs the surrounding ideas that may be held, of what it means to be in Christ.
As: Can one be in Christ and still be under condemnation? According to Galations 5:6 "in Christ" what matters is faith working through love. Also 5;16 ,25 one is instructed to, "walk in the spirit." .....
"If we live in the Spirit we should also walk in the Spirit."
Then back to Romans 8:2, if one ask what is the law of the spirit of life? but could it be that we walk in the Spirit.
And If we do, just maybe we our not held under the condemnation of the law? So back to original thought
And verse 4 explains it all...."that the righteous requirements of the law might be fillfilled in us who.......walk after the Spirit.
So to walk is defined in Romans 8;6
It's almost as the action itself....it's intending to follow, as Abraham intended to slay His son in obedience.
So with this said, what is the Spirit of God? Could it be Peace/"life" vs. 10 /Joy?

If so what can we presume?
To be continued

I checked with a Greek translation of Rom 8:1. King James version got the correct translation. Is it left out in NASB and ESV to promote a certain theology?

The Spirit of God is given us upon repentance, leading to life and all the fruits Paul is talking about, love, peace, patience, kindness etc. The Spirit of God cleanses us, when we walk in the Spirit, living in obedience to Christ.

Edit: The question is which manuscript that is used for the translation of Rom 8:1. Some manuscripts have "who walk not after flesh, but after Spirit" and others don't. I don't know which is right. There seems to be some disagreement about it.

 

[corinth77777]

Interesting enough, the English American version is missing a passage that the king James version Has....in Romans 8:1
........, who walk not after the flesh, but after the spirit.

So it beggs the surrounding ideas that may be held, of what it means to be in Christ.
As: Can one be in Christ and still be under condemnation? According to Galations 5:6 "in Christ" what matters is faith working through love. Also 5;16 ,25 one is instructed to, "walk in the spirit." .....
"If we live in the Spirit we should also walk in the Spirit."
Then back to Romans 8:2, if one ask what is the law of the spirit of life? but could it be that we walk in the Spirit.
And If we do, just maybe we our not held under the condemnation of the law? So back to original thought
And verse 4 explains it all...."that the righteous requirements of the law might be fillfilled in us who.......walk after the Spirit.
So to walk is defined in Romans 8;6
It's almost as the action itself....it's intending to follow, as Abraham intended to slay His son in obedience.
So with this said, what is the Spirit of God? Could it be Peace/"life" vs. 10 /Joy?

If so what can we presume?
To be continued

Just maybe we can presume that there is one Baptism that saves us Now....as 1 Peter 3 around 21 tells us and that is the resurrection of Christ. But How? When we intend to follow[ setting our minds] constantly to seeking the kingdom by pursuing peace and righteousness each day. Now how might this one Baptism include the Father [God], the son, and the Holy Ghost/Spirit?
We by the Spirit of Christ [holy Spirit] obey God the Father[God] by believing on the son.[who is Lord and savior]

So what does baptism seem to equate to? A New Life. But How? Through the washing of regeneration and renewal of the Spirit. Jesus was the only one who arose from the dead. When we enter His risen life [He is the First Born from the dead] we are cleansed from trespasses and sin, in order that we walk in the newness of life [the walk] setting mind to consistently intentionally follow -is Life [renewal of the Holy Spirit] redeeming what has been lost, In state of perpetual cleansing. So the source of salvation, Christ the Risen, Is based on the Father, and the son's obedient Spirit, not anything we have done. And we come in operation with the source through faith and our faithfulness.

Well those are my opinions for now...
As I would like to say- I am a student of Dallas Willard, even I've never met Him. He says, "salvation is a Life" being caught up in what God is doing...

 

[corinth77777]

Actually, remember in the TORAH, the Ekklesia of Yahweh at one particular time as written OBEYED HIM,
and THEN HE PUNISHED THEM,
because they grumbled and complained before/ while/ obeying ......
so Ekklesia today also might (often?) obey the word, and still be punished, for grumbling (having a heart not after God? doing things (obeying the word) FOR SHOW ? )

On judgment day, too late for them, many are told who thought they obeyed, "be gone .." the worse thing and the final thing they ever hear.
Hopefully, before judgment day, while still alive on earth before they die, anyone in that 'condition' will turn to Yahweh and hear His Voice and not harden their heart as they did in the wilderness when they rebelled against Him.

Yes, but that woud be because they did not obey from the heart...I don't always say everything I don't mean. Just presumed you knew certain passages. With that said though, does one make him Lord over their lives when they obey?

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

Yes, but that woud be because they did not obey from the heart...I don't always say everything I don't mean. Just presumed you knew certain passages. With that said though, does one make him Lord over their lives when they obey?

As you already now noted, no, not always.

And as Jesus notes on Judgment Day when He tells those who were so sure they had "made it" and recounted all they did on earth "for Him",
He says "be gone from Me; all you did was "FOR SHOW", not obeying Me...." (i.e. they did not get a circumcised heart and were not "born again" by the Will of the heavenly Father) .....

 

[sdowney717]

Those who received Christ as God come in the flesh, as the Lord God, show they had been born again of the will of God, not of the will of man, not of the will of the flesh.
Those who are in the flesh cannot please God, Those who are in the flesh are at enmity with God.

You must be born anew to even see-perceive the kingdom of God, John 3:3
You do not perceive Christ as the Lord God unless you are born anew by Him,
otherwise your mind remains blinded by Satan. You must become a spiritual man first, God is a spirit and those who worship the one True God must worship Him in Spirit and in Truth.

John 1
12 But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, to those who believe in His name: 13 who were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

John 3:3 Amplified Bible, Classic Edition (AMPC)
3 Jesus answered him, I assure you, most solemnly I tell you, that unless a person is born again (anew, from above), he cannot ever see (know, be acquainted with, and experience) the kingdom of God.

1 John 5 English Standard Version (ESV)
1 Everyone who believes that Jesus is the Christ has been born of God, and everyone who loves the Father loves whoever has been born of him.

Some remain blinded to the gospel by Satan, but to some the gospel has been revealed by God the Father shining His light in their hearts. Satan can not prevent God from saving whoever He wishes., v6
The gospel though is veiled to them that are persihing. The decision remains the Lord's, salvation is of the Lord, not of your will of the flesh.

2 Corinthians 4 English Standard Version (ESV)
The Light of the Gospel
4 Therefore, having this ministry by the mercy of God,[a] we do not lose heart. 2 But we have renounced disgraceful, underhanded ways. We refuse to practice cunning or to tamper with God's word, but by the open statement of the truth we would commend ourselves to everyone's conscience in the sight of God. 3 And even if our gospel is veiled, it is veiled to those who are perishing. 4 In their case the god of this world has blinded the minds of the unbelievers, to keep them from seeing the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God. 5 For what we proclaim is not ourselves, but Jesus Christ as Lord, with ourselves as your servants[c] for Jesus' sake. 6 For God, who said, “Let light shine out of darkness,” has shone in our hearts to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ.

God shines that light only in the hearts of those He has made born again first. If you are not born anew, then you are flesh and going to corruption. Flesh is flesh and spirit is spirit.

 

[zoidar]

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I edited #415