Do your best to explain Romans 5

[corinth77777]

Not sure how this post turned into universalism?
I can't judge one way or the other.
Even if everyone was to be saved...to What end? How does the parable of Rich man and Laz play out in all this.

Even I have no stand on this,many years ago I read an article of how we become the lake of fire...But can't recall..Just remembering people asking me why I read that mess....

 

[corinth77777]

So have you read Romans right through?

I recently read up to 6...because of the
Post question. Why?

 

[faroukfarouk]

I recently read up to 6...because of the
Post question. Why?

It's a great Epistle. No particular other reason for asking, I guess. Thanks.

 

[corinth77777]

It's a great Epistle. No particular other reason for asking, I guess. Thanks.

I have many questions...Have You read it?

 

[faroukfarouk]

I have many questions...Have You read it?

Yes, great Epistle. Romans 8 is wonderful masterpiece of encouraging argument for the believer.

 

[FineLinen]

Acts 13(48): AS MANY as were ordained unto eternal believed : and no one else : not open to all !!!

Let's take a look at this from multible translations, shall we.

Acts 13:48=
Acts 13:48 - When the Gentiles heard this, they were glad and honored the word of the Lord; and all who were appointed for eternal life believed.

 

[zoidar]

I answered this several times. For some reason you are not addressing my comments on the Covenant.

You have to explain in clear words what you want me to answer. I thought I gave you an answer ...

 

[zoidar]

Will those put in the Lake of Fire be delivered from their sins?

I ask, because if the atonement is universal there should be no humans in the Lake of Fire.

You think like this because I believe you have the wrong idea of what the atonement really is. The atonement of Christ is a sacrifice for sin (Hebrews 10:12), made for mankind, all men, received through faith. Once it's received you are atoned, not before.

 

[FineLinen]

Let's take a look at this from multible translations, shall we.
Acts 13:48=
Acts 13:48 - When the Gentiles heard this, they were glad and honored the word of the Lord; and all who were appointed for eternal life believed.

Jonathon Mitchell N.T. Translation=

::Jonathan Mitchell's New Testament Translation::

" Now upon hearing [this], the non-Jews (the [folks of the] nations and ethnic groups) began rejoicing and continued glorifying (enhancing the reputation of) the message from God (God's Logos: God's Word and idea). And so they trusted and believed – whoever were folks having been set and arranged into an eonian life (or: into life which has is source and quality from the Age)."

 

[zoidar]

Calvinism is the old school Reformation theology developed early in the Protestant Reformation. I identify with it because of the unwaivering convictions regarding justification by grace through faith alone. Mark well and understand thar word 'alone' is spring loaded and inextricably linked to all the distinctives in Calvinist thought. Covenant theology appears to be a lot like dispensationalism, involved in end time studies. Dispensationalists believe in a pretribulation rapture and covenant theology relates to a late tribulation rapture. That's the only way I've seen those areas of thought applied.

I have long searched for the theological undercurrent of Christian theology so I've developed an interest in the old school thing across a broad scale of Christian thinking. Calvinism while a bit extreme in some respects is solid theologically.

If you are interested in old school teachings, shouldn't you go back to the first teachings of the Church? When did Calvinism arise? I mean if it was in 1500AD sometime, and if it's not a teaching of the early Church, what kind of reliance does it give? One reason I hold on to the Classic Idea of the atonement is because it was the common teaching of the Church until Anselm of Canterbury in 1000AD.

 

[FineLinen]

Not sure how this post turned into universalism?

Am I missing something? I thought the O.P regards the wonderful equation of two Adam's, the first & last. Where was the nasty "U" word mentioned? (outside of you, my friend.}

 

[FineLinen]

If you are interested in old school teachings, shouldn't you go back to the first teachings of the Church? When did Calvinism arise? I mean if it was in 1500AD sometime, and if it's not a teaching of the early Church, what kind of reliance does it give? One reason I hold on to the Classic Idea of the atonement is because it was the common teaching of the Church until Anselm of Canterbury in 1000AD.

My Swedish brother: you have been a delight & much thanks. This will be my last appearance on this link. I simply am too discombobulated to discuss Calvinism; F.L. has other fish to fry and must return to the frying pan. May His great love and grace be with all of you!

 

[zoidar]

Acts 13(48): AS MANY as were ordained unto eternal believed : and no one else : not open to all !!!

Acts 13
48 When the Gentiles heard this, they began rejoicing and glorifying the word of the Lord; and as many as HAD been appointed to eternal life believed.

43 Now when the meeting of the synagogue had broken up, many of the Jews and of the God-fearing proselytes followed Paul and Barnabas, who, speaking to them, were urging them to continue in the grace of God.

So the Gentiles in Acts 13:48 who rejoiced, were the God-fearing proselytes that allready were saved (had been appointed eternal life through faith), and were urged by Paul to CONTINUE in the grace of God.

 

[zoidar]

My Swedish brother: you have been a delight & much thanks. This will be my last appearance on this link. I simply am too discombobulated to discuss Calvinism; F.L. has other fish to fry and must return to the frying pan. May His great love and grace be with all of you!

Discombobulated ... I understand, I feel the same way.

I wish you the same my brother! May the Lord bless you and keep you! May the face of the Lord shine on you and may the Lord always make your ways straight!

Christ love,

P

 

[corinth77777]

Am I missing something? I thought the O.P regards the wonderful equation of two Adam's, the first & last. Where was the nasty "U" word mentioned? (outside of you, my friend.}

Why do you say the "U" word is Nasty?

 

[redleghunter]

You think like this because I believe you have the wrong idea of what the atonement really is. The atonement of Christ is a sacrifice for sin (Hebrews 10:12), made for mankind, all men, received through faith. Once it's received you are atoned, not before.

Thanks! So if I am correct in reading the above...One must be within the 'ekklesia' or called out ones to actually be atoned for? Like the Israelites who assembled outside the tent of meeting or later the Temple?

 

[zoidar]

Thanks! So if I am correct in reading the above...One must be within the 'ekklesia' ... to actually be atoned for?

Depends on how we use the word. The atoning sacrifice is for everyone, the world is set free, but only those that have Christ as Lord (the Church), are being atoned in the sense of made righteous.

I can explain it this way. Jesus was victorious over death, the Devil and the power he had over mankind through sin. So Jesus brought back mankind from Satan to himself, to be reconciled through faith.

Like the Israelites who assembled outside the tent of meeting or later the Temple?

I don't know how it worked for the Israelites. That you have to tell me.

 

[redleghunter]

Depends on how we use the word. The atoning sacrifice is for everyone, the world is set free, but only those that have Christ as Lord (the Church), are being atoned in the sense of made righteous.

I can explain it this way. Jesus was victorious over death, the Devil and the power he had over mankind through sin. So Jesus brought back mankind from Satan to himself, to be reconciled through faith.

So your view is the atonement is for everyone, yet effectually limited in scope to those who come to Christ in faith?

 

[zoidar]

So your view is the atonement is for everyone, yet effectually limited in scope to those who come to Christ in faith?

Yes

 

[redleghunter]

Yes

Therefore, limited atonement. Welcome to the club.