Do your best to explain Romans 5

[zoidar]

Did Christ atone for the sins of those thrown in the Lake of fire in Revelation 20 and Revelation 21?

Let me ask you this question first: Did Christ conquer all evil, all darkness, and Satan himself on the cross?

 

[FineLinen]

Yes. Exodus 15:7
Deuteronomy 4:24
Hebrews 12:29

The Lake of Fire is gehenna in the Aramaic but our New Testament translations render both the Greek word, hades and gehenna as "hell". Jesus used the two words in different contexts so I think we can safely assume that they are two different places. In His discussion of the Rich Man and the other Lazarus, Jesus had the Rich Man in hades while Lazarus was with Abraham in paradise (in the passage, the concept of the "bosom of Abraham" is used but they were roughly synonymous ). The whole of it, in the Jewish understanding, sheol--the place of the dead was divided into two parts with an unbridgeable gulf between--the part for the just (a place of peace and blessing) and the part for the unjust (a place of torment). There was said to be a gate at the bottom of of hades where the eternally damned passed as they were led to the Lake of Fire. In that instance, hades can be seen as a kind of "holding tank"--a place of torment but leading ultimately to annihilation in the Lake of Fire--Gehenna by the consuming fire of the wrath of God. When Jesus warns His hearers to, "...fear the one who can destroy both body and soul in hell" the word He uses for "hell" is Gehenna. Jesus' hearers would have been familiar with the concepts Jesus expressed in the account because it was mostly the position of their rabbis and was the prevailing view held by the Pharisees (the Sadducees did not believe in an afterlife).

Lady: I will leave what I have already posted as my response. You have no idea the extent of your lack of understanding of the Lake! You might consider the latest presentation on Fire in the new thread posted a few hours ago. If you so choose I will meet you there.

 

[redleghunter]

You will find the Lake of Fire has a wonderful ingredient: theion. You will also find the root for theion is none other than Theos. The Lake is the breath of Jehovah, and you can rest assured when He breathes on anything there is dramatic change. I will leave it there for now, but get adjusted to our God who IS Fire!

So it's a nice place the Beast and false prophet spend time in? Satan too?

 

[redleghunter]

Yet not all who got sprinkled were saved in the end ...

Everyone standing in the assembly were atoned for.

That was the entire purpose of the Day of Atonement.

 

[redleghunter]

Well you said in a prior post that dead people can't hear things...but their noses work fine and can smell God like you would a mother's cooking on a Saturday morning? You're kind of funny!

Have you heard of analogies? Jesus used them quite often.

I'll explain one. A mother sometimes cooks a particular breakfast which she knows will wake her family. If she did not do that action they would sleep in.

 

[redleghunter]

I didn't say that. I do hate Calvinism though, just as I hate Islam

Why? Because Calvinism diminish the work of Christ. And not only that, also distort the character of our LOVING God.

How so? Do you have a dissertation handy which you explored hundreds of years of Covenant theology?

What were Charles Spurgeon's views of Covenant theology? Jonathan Edwards? RC Sproul?

Do you even know who these men were? I'm sure in your extensive study which concluded in hate for Covenant theology you came across these men and their views.

How does Covenant theology diminish the work of Christ?

You hate it which means you must understand it. Show me.

 

[redleghunter]

Let me ask you this question first: Did Christ conquer all evil, all darkness, and Satan himself on the cross?

I take you would like to pass on the question I asked. Here it is again:

Did Christ atone for the sins of those thrown in the Lake of fire in Revelation 20 and Revelation 21?

 

[Bobber]

Have you heard of analogies? Jesus used them quite often.

I'll explain one. A mother sometimes cooks a particular breakfast which she knows will wake her family. If she did not do that action they would sleep in.

Yes...and admit it. Sometimes a parent will seek to wake their kid and they refuse to get up. THEY CHOOSE to go back to sleep! Thus with Christ. He wakes up ALL with the preaching of the gospel, that's the CALL....but some say NO forget it! They'd rather stay asleep in my night! And look at the following,

So then we must not sleep like the rest but we must stay awake and be serious. For those who sleep, sleep at night and those who get drunk are drunk at night. 1 Thessalonians 5: 6

Interesting...above verse written to Christians.....in saying we MUST stay awake and an exhortation to do so sure seems there's a possibility they might not...unless THEY CHOOSE rightly. What exactly happened to irresistible grace?

 

[Bobber]

How so? Do you have a dissertation handy which you explored hundreds of years of Covenant theology?

You were speaking this to another poster but what's your point? Christians realize God brought forth various Covenants.

What were Charles Spurgeon's views of Covenant theology? Jonathan Edwards? RC Sproul?

What's it matter? They were men the same as us. (and ladies here too) Oh I see. Anyone who doesn't read after these individuals who weren't Apostles of the Lamb are ignoramuses?

Do you even know who these men were? I'm sure in your extensive study which concluded in hate for Covenant theology you came across these men and their views.

Covenant theology...what are you claiming that's a term that belongs to Calvinists? You don't accept that Christian groups of many different types don't recognize there are various Covenants God made in the Bible? What's your point?

How does Covenant theology diminish the work of Christ?

There you go again...claiming Covenant understandings only belong to Calvinists. Everybody else in the body of Christ is being ever so frivolous? No being extremely presumptuous? Hey Red how about you just put down what your beliefs are relative to YOUR Covenant understanding and we can discuss them.

 

[FineLinen]

So it's a nice place the Beast and false prophet spend time in? Satan too?

Hunter: Your question should be>>>>>What is the purpose of the Lake of Theos? It is not a question of whether it is a "nice" place, but the purpose of His breathe!

From Him the all comes, through Him the all exists, and in Him the all ends..."

 

[FineLinen]

Let me ask you this question first: Did Christ conquer all evil, all darkness, and Satan himself on the cross?

Without question>>>>>>>>>> YES!

How do you say it in Swedish, my friend?

 

[FineLinen]

Yes. Exodus 15:7
Deuteronomy 4:24
Hebrews 12:29

The Lake of Fire is gehenna in the Aramaic but our New Testament translations render both the Greek word, hades and gehenna as "hell". Jesus used the two words in different contexts so I think we can safely assume that they are two different places. In His discussion of the Rich Man and the other Lazarus, Jesus had the Rich Man in hades while Lazarus was with Abraham in paradise (in the passage, the concept of the "bosom of Abraham" is used but they were roughly synonymous ). The whole of it, in the Jewish understanding, sheol--the place of the dead was divided into two parts with an unbridgeable gulf between--the part for the just (a place of peace and blessing) and the part for the unjust (a place of torment). There was said to be a gate at the bottom of of hades where the eternally damned passed as they were led to the Lake of Fire. In that instance, hades can be seen as a kind of "holding tank"--a place of torment but leading ultimately to continuous annihilation in the Lake of Fire (gehenna) by the consuming fire of the wrath of God. This is the "Second Death" that the Book of Revelation names as such. When Jesus warns His hearers to, "...fear the one who can destroy both body and soul in hell" the word He uses for "hell" is Gehenna. Jesus' hearers would have been familiar with the concepts Jesus expressed in the account because it was mostly the position of their rabbis and was the prevailing view held by the Pharisees (the Sadducees did not believe in an afterlife). Interestingly, those taking the Mark of the Beast are said to be tormented forever along with the Beast, the False Profit and Satan himself. This suggests that they are immortal and cannot die. In fact, the Book of Revelation says that "those belonging to this world" will long to die but that death eludes them.

 

[FineLinen]

I have had second thoughts in answer to your post, the first answer stands: but now a question for you. We read that every knee shall bow and every tongue confess IN the Name of Jesus declaring "You are Lord to the glory of God the Father"
Your question=
In what dimensions is this confession and worship taking place?

 

[Arthur B Via]

One chapter I've been reading maybe more than any other chapter in the Bible, that is Romans 5. Since it's a description of the atonement, it's a very central chapter of the Bible. Do your best to explain the whole, or just a part of Romans 5. Let us discuss this chapter and do our best to understand it.

Christ love,

P

Like all of God's Word Romans 5 is beautiful in that it is God telling us we've been AQUITED by our FAITH, and FAITH alone. Much like walking into a courtroom to be sentenced for crimes we commited, but to our surprise the judge says he's throwing our case OUT, and we can go home. Like his worldly scenario we find it difficult to imagine we are free, but as time goes by we realize the TRUTH of Grace... God bless you all...

 

[zoidar]

Everyone standing in the assembly were atoned for.

That was the entire purpose of the Day of Atonement.

Was the sacrifice Aaron did for the whole of Israel or not?

Lev 16
16 Thus he shall make atonement for the Holy Place, because of the uncleannesses of the people of Israel and because of their transgressions, all their sins. And so he shall do for the tent of meeting, which dwells with them in the midst of their uncleannesses.
17 No one may be in the tent of meeting from the time he enters to make atonement in the Holy Place until he comes out and has made atonement for himself and for his house and for all the assembly of Israel.
18 Then he shall go out to the altar that isbefore the LORD and make atonement for it, and shall take some of the blood of the bull and some of the blood of the goat, and put it on the horns of the altar all around.
19 And he shall sprinkle some of the blood on it with his finger seven times, and cleanse it and consecrate it from the uncleannesses of the people of Israel.

 

[zoidar]

How so? Do you have a dissertation handy which you explored hundreds of years of Covenant theology?

What were Charles Spurgeon's views of Covenant theology? Jonathan Edwards? RC Sproul?

Do you even know who these men were? I'm sure in your extensive study which concluded in hate for Covenant theology you came across these men and their views.

How does Covenant theology diminish the work of Christ?

You hate it which means you must understand it. Show me.

Sorry for my post about how I hate Calvinism. It's actually more of a sorrow for that teaching than of hate. And like I said, It's not you guys I hate, but I do feel sorrow that you are entangled in it.

I know practically nothing about the theology you call "Covenant theology". It's actually the first time I hear it's name.

 

[zoidar]

I take you would like to pass on the question I asked. Here it is again:

Did Christ atone for the sins of those thrown in the Lake of fire in Revelation 20 and Revelation 21?

I didn't avoid the question. I gave you the answer by my own question, but you didn't see it?

"Did Christ conquer all evil, all darkness, and Satan himself on the cross?"

The answer is: Yes, Christ was victorious over all evil, all darkness and he cast out Satan.

"now the ruler of this world will be cast out." (John 12:31)

Satan was not partly cast out from this world, which means Christ won a full victory over all the power of darkness. And the only way he could have done this was through an atonement for all men, even for those men thrown in the Lake of fire. His victory for mankind was a complete victory.

Were the sins of those cast in the Lake of fire covered? Actually, I don't believe in covering over sins, I believe in real deliverance of sins, which is given those that has Jesus as Lord. So, no I don't believe that the sins of mankind were covered, neither do I believe that the sins of the elect were covered. I believe that Christ won victory for mankind, all men. And those who go under the rule of Christ will be redeemed.

 

[zoidar]

Without question>>>>>>>>>> YES!

How do you say it in Swedish, my friend?

"JA!" Jesus segrade över all ondska, allt mörker och Satan själv, på korset.

 

[FineLinen]

"JA!" Jesus segrade över all ondska, allt mörker och Satan själv, på korset.

My Swedish friend, thank you! I simply do not know why I am so slow as I ponder the source of the O.P. We are on the same page & it is a delight speaking with you. May His good pleasure be with us again today.

 

[FineLinen]

"JA!" Jesus segrade över all ondska, allt mörker och Satan själv, på korset.

JA indeed! In English, French, and Swedish to name only a few, the declaration is clear>>>>>all enemies are under His feet & every last one in the heavens, the earth, and the underworld will declare in antiphonal worship "You are Lord!

"Jesus wins over all evil, all darkness and Satan himself on the cross." JA