Do your best to explain Romans 5

[FineLinen]

I think it's impossible to give an age of accountability. To say it's the age of 12 I feel is wrong. It can feel safe to believe in a certain age, but just as MA states, no such age is mentioned in the Bible. We are to trust in God's love and goodness for those who are too young to understand and for those who are mentally out of reach.

You could stop with "We are to trust in God's love and goodness." PERIOD!

 

[zoidar]

Nonsense! "He is the propitiation for our sins">>>>>>>>>and what?

"Not for our sins ONLY, but for the sins of the whole world"

What part of "only" evades your grasp? He is the hilasmos of the holos!

My friend! I think you misunderstood me. Mark kennedy's Bible quote didn't say who Jesus died for, only that those who believe in Jesus will be saved. My point was that this by no means would prove limited atonement.

I agree with you in full, that Jesus is SAVIOR of ALL MEN, ALL MANKIND, THE WHOLE WORLD.

 

[mark kennedy]

My friend! I think you misunderstood me. Mark kennedy's Bible quote didn't say who Jesus died for, only that those who believe in Jesus will be saved. My point was that this by no means would prove limited atonement.

I agree with you in full, that Jesus is SAVIOR of ALL MEN, ALL MANKIND, THE WHOLE WORLD.

Not all receive Christ by faith, not all are in Christ and certainly, not all receive the righteousness that is by faith. Christ did die for all but not all receive those mercies and that atonement that make all in Christ, alive. You missed the qualifier and abandoned the context of the passage.

 

[zoidar]

That dosnt look like a disagreement, it looks more like a misunderstanding. For two and a half chapters Paul describes mankind knowing the. truth of God but suppressing the truth I in unrighteousness, Jew and Greek alike judge under and apart from the Law respectively. Romans 3 I'd a transition marked by two words, ' but now', and what is reveal now is the righteousness of God in Christ which is by faith. What Red was pointing out is atonement is only mentioned in Romans in the 3rd chapter. There is no mention made of being a slave to sin unless you are simply projecting something you think is related to Romans 6. The blessings of those forgiven by God's graces occupies the content of the 4th chapter and chapter 5 is simply a contrast between being in Adam and being in Christ.

Atonement is a supreme Levetical event under the Mosaic Law. The word in chapter 3

What it says is that in Adam all die in Christ all are made alive. It does say that in Adam we are all under the curse of sin and death, it does not say that all are in Christ. Quite the opposite, Paul is clear that you are only in Christ by faith, and you are in Adam by birth. A distinction you appear to find elusive.

I agree that Jew and greek alike will be made righteous by faith and not by the Mosaic Law. That is what Rom 3 is about. It's about mankind being slave under sin, but through faith we become righteous.

 

[FineLinen]

My friend! I think you misunderstood me. Mark kennedy's Bible quote didn't say who Jesus died for, only that those who believe in Jesus will be saved. My point was that this by no means would prove limited atonement.

I agree with you in full, that Jesus is SAVIOR of ALL MEN, ALL MANKIND, THE WHOLE WORLD.

T.U.L.I.P is a ghastly doctrine indeed! I regret I misunderstood you, please accept my contrite spirit. It always gives me great satisfaction when the chains of blindness and hearing impairment drop away to reveal our glorious Lord.

Jesus is SAVIOR of ALL MEN, ALL MANKIND, THE WHOLE WORLD.

Do you speak Mexican? "Jesus Christ is the Savior of all men, all mankind, the whole world." = the whole enchilada!

 

[zoidar]

Not all receive Christ by faith, not all are in Christ and certainly, not all receive the righteousness that is by faith. Christ did die for all but not all receive those mercies and that atonement that make all in Christ, alive. You missed the qualifier and abandoned the context of the passage.

I think I agree with what you said above, if I understand you correct. That is what I mean, Christ died for everyone, that whoever can be saved, but of course not all men will receive Christ and be made righteous through faith.

 

[zoidar]

T.U.L.I.P is a ghastly doctrine indeed! I regret I misunderstood you, please accept my contrite spirit. It always gives me great satisfaction when the chains of blindness and hearing impairment drop away to reveal our glorious Lord.

Jesus is SAVIOR of ALL MEN, ALL MANKIND, THE WHOLE WORLD.

Do you speak Mexican? "Jesus Christ is the Savior of all men, all mankind, the whole world." = the whole enchilada!

No worries!

Mexican, no! Try Swedish: "Jesus Kristus är HELA VÄRLDENS FRÄLSARE!"

 

[LadyCrosstalk]

Again, we are by nature sinners, just give us a few opportunities to demonstrate the fact! I also reject any idea of "innocent baby's" being "eternally lost", but lost they are minus eternally. Are you aware of the fact that in this same wonderful epistle to the Romans, we also have these words?

"The whole of created life shall be delivered/set free/ emancipate from the tyranny of change and decay....

*******Including innocent baby's who are sinners

The line which you have quoted is referring to the eternal state and we know that we must endure at least another 1,000 years before that time is achieved. Where would the infant pass that millennium in your theology?

 

[FineLinen]

Not all receive Christ by faith, not all are in Christ and certainly, not all receive the righteousness that is by faith. Christ did die for all but not all receive those mercies and that atonement that make all in Christ, alive. You missed the qualifier and abandoned the context of the passage.

I assume you grasp what it means to be in/en Christ? You then are well on your way to grasping the following>>>>>>>>>

"..That IN the Name of Jesus, every knee shall bow, and every tongue confess, You are Lord.."

But wait, there is more......

The scope of the confession and worship IN the Name of all names=

All beings in the heavens, all beings in the earth, all beings in the underworld. ALL!

 

[FineLinen]

The line which you have quoted is referring to the eternal state and we know that we must endure at least another 1,000 years before that time is achieved. Where would the infant pass that millennium in your theology?

Good grief Lady! You endure till the cows come home, now or in the "eternal state"! I will repeat, all "innocent babies", and we who are far from innocent, are all sinners by nature (without doing one blasted thing.) That is why the responsibility for change of dwelling must be in His wonderful hands: the One who makes the mass of lost broken wrecks righteous in the Last Adam. Every last one!

 

[FineLinen]

No worries!

Mexican, no! Try Swedish: "s är HELA VÄRLDENS FRÄLSARE!" Jesus Kristu

I like the Swedish version as well! Thank you for forgiving an old feller!

 

[corinth77777]

That is precisely what I am stating! The "rule" declares they get out of jail free if they have not reached......oh away with the rule! The apostle states, through one man (Adam 1) the mass (the polus) are made sinners, through one Man (the last Adam) the same polus are "made righteous", not accounted righteous>>>>>>>"made righteous"! This is a profound equation of exquisite math!
"The whole of created life shall be delivered/ set free..."

So do you believe in universal salvation?

 

[RDKirk]

When does not mankind mean the whole human race?

"Influenza is a scourge upon all mankind."

That does not mean each and every individual suffers from influenza.

 

[faroukfarouk]

@LadyCrosstalk Romans 5 is a wonderful, pivotal passage about justification; and reading and really studying the Epistle to the Romans can be a really good doctrinal grounding.

 

[corinth77777]

Clearly Romans is Paul's most in-depth discussion of justification by faith. In my mind it's core theme is righteousness, justification being a form of the same word.

Funny, I was just reading Romans to understand verse 4:25. I said earlier that it begs the question of how one is saved. [wholly] and if one can be born from above more than once. For there is 2 actions mentioned there that have different reasons. Example: He was deliver for our offences and raised again for our Justification.
For read. 1 Thessalonians 5: 23
If I am on the right track one woul have to ask how many times can man be justified if Christ resurrected Life is our Justification.
I mean: what does it mean to us that He is our Justification in the terms of our whole spirit, body, and soul preserved blameless?

 

[FineLinen]

You're literally adding to scripture. There is no place in that verse that says there is anybody that is not given to Christ, no, in fact, the Lord is saying that he came down to do the will of the Father, which is for everyone that sees him to believe on him.

And everyone has seen him, but not everyone follows the will of God. (Titus 2:11). God's grace has appeared unto all men, because Jesus has drawn all men unto him (John 12:32).

Again, not all choose to receive him (John 1:12).

First of all, my friend, you may have chosen to follow Him, F.L. did not, when He started to draw by His awesome power, my little will, was badly broken....can you hear Him? "You did not chose Me." That Voice still resonates down to every last disciple of His...."You did not" Furthermore, everyone has not seen Him (not yet, but be patient). Today across this little globe of ours 15000 children die under age 5, some never once knowing there even is a Jesus. Countless others of the over 2 million who pass today into the next dimension know nothing of Him, NOTHING. I hate these facts, but I know what began in Him, ends in Him! He is the Source, the Guide and the Goal of the all. Word for today=ta panta=the all

 

[FineLinen]

So do you believe in universal salvation?

Are you kidding? I believe Abba, from whom the all comes, in the end the all ends! Let me put it in another question. The Master refused to allow His hand picked ones to allow remnants of broken bread and fish to be lost/wasted, and said "that nothing be lost". On a scale of 1 to 10 how many broken members of us will He allow to be wasted/lost?

 

[Bobber]

Yes that verse is evidence against your position.

I was speaking of dead in spirit not unconscious.

Well if you're dead in spirit and conscious as you now admit what's to stop the dead from at least hearing the invitation of God and making a choice?

 

[Bobber]

Again thank you for proving my point. It is God Who calls and awakens.

Ha...well of course there's probably no convincing you but sure God calls! Has anyone ever denied that? God has called the dead to believe. In believing they do what? They arise from the dead and Christ gives them what? LIGHT. Why should you reverse the order? You put God gives them LIGHT first and then they awaken. Think about that. I'll mention it again....you say God gives them LIGHT first and then they awake. Not the opposite of Ephesians 5 :14?

"Wherefore he saith, 1) Awake thou that sleepest, and 2) arise from the dead, and Christ 3) shall give thee light. Ephesians 5:14 "

 

[FineLinen]

Well if you're dead in spirit and conscious as you now admit what's to stop the dead from at least hearing the invitation of God and making a choice?

"For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:

By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison;

Which sometime were disobedient, when once the long suffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was being prepared, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.

For unto this end was the gospel preached even to the dead, that they might be judged indeed according to men in the flesh, but live according to God in the spirit."

Matthew 27:53 - They came out of the tombs after Jesus’ resurrection and went into the holy city and appeared to many people.