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Haha for once I agree with you! The terminology, that God is 'responsible' for our fallen state is humanly derived. The Bible shows that 'causes' all things. That does not imply that he is 'responsible' for, whatever that vaguely means. The Bible is more than clear in Romans 9 that he is not to be blamed.This is not the Gospel of Jesus Christ of Nazareth. I do hope one day you will know Him.
Well we agree at least on two things. Jesus Christ of NazarethHaha for once I agree with you! The terminology, that God is 'responsible' for our fallen state is humanly derived. The Bible shows that 'causes' all things. That does not imply that he is 'responsible' for, whatever that vaguely means. The Bible is more than clear in Romans 9 that he is not to be blamed.
God in no way caused Adam or Eve to sin. They chose freely to sin. God set them up for success, but they still blew it (as we all probably would).
This explains it perfectly: Theological FAQ: Eden as Set-up
If God had set them up to fail, so that they would sin, then yes, He would be responsible.Your implication here is that if he intended for them to fall that he is to be blamed. Read Romans 9.
I don't know if God was in control of every person who died. There are some who died because of their own life style, to those who had their lives taken away from them by someone or something else. I don't think he is the one who says: "this guy will die because this other guy will murder him.. or he will get into a very bad car accident". God can probably for-see it but being the one controlling it is something I can't believe is generally true.
He wasn't tinkering with their brakes.If God had set them up to fail, so that they would sin, then yes, He would be responsible.
If you go and tinker with someones car brake so it doesn't work properly and they crash the car because the brakes didn't stop the car, the you are at least partly responsible, the person driving may also have driven badly, speeded etc, but you contributed to the conditions that resulted in a crash.
Responsible is a vague way to put it. Too many cat calls will result.The key to understanding this is the following regarding the sins of man:
MAN is accountable.
God is responsible.
He planned for the eventuality of sin, but He did not plan for them to sin.He planned for them to sin. They still chose to sin, but God knew they would and set them up to fail to achieve His purposes.
Rom 8:20 For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope,
Rom 8:21 Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God.
Tinkering with their moral compasses then??He wasn't tinkering with their brakes.
If there is anything that God is not in control of means that God is not ALL POWERFUL. For what you can control is POWER. And if any POWER is not under HIS POWER, then that POWER is NOT His? Therefore, He couldn't be ALL POWERFUL.
He planned for the eventuality of sin, but He did not plan for them to sin.
Also, the passages you quote from Romans 8 are about the creation being subject to the effects of sin, ie after sin had entered the world. Remember, Adam and Eve were created free from sin and its effects, they were superior humans to us in many ways. However they still chose to sin and through them, sin entered the world/creation. They were sinless, and therefore perfect to begin with. Romans8:20 would suggest otherwise according to your theology, not correct.
Of course, we all start dying from the moment we’re born. The key is finding Christ in this life. It’s so important that I believe God doesn’t allow for random death perhaps.In the early parts of my life I kind of assumed it was just bad luck if someone died but the more I lived the more I realized we don't control when we go. I now realize that God actually controls when we go and I personally believe he planned out every little detail of our lives. What do you guys think?
When Science talks about “The Law of Cause-and-Effect”, We know an autonomous free will choice would be outside of the Law. God has the power to be outside of having to obey such “Law” and God did not just break that Law “once" at the beginning of time and thus everything is just the effect of the one uncaused cause. God each moment is causing of His own free will lots of things that are not the result of one first cause. God is outside science, so God is being a first cause of lots of things, He is not even being considered by science so, they look and find other possibilities (these are provided by God to avoid making Himself, scientifically known [another topic]).And you're saying God caused Adam and eve to sin because of this law? Okay now I see what you mean and agree. It's just seems weird to say God caused evil but if he didn't then who did? I don't think the cause you mean is the same cause people think. Most think if you cause evil you are evil because you caused it but God caused evil more in an indirect way out of necessity it seems.
Why? Don't forget that God is also virtues, how can he be both all powerful and virtues at the same time if he does impose how a persons ends up? Should we know make him responsible for all the kids who died in the holocaust or someone who is evil?
I think God knows exactly when we will die. I would not use the word "control", because he doesn't control us, but he has all knowledge, so that he can work all things for our good.In the early parts of my life I kind of assumed it was just bad luck if someone died but the more I lived the more I realized we don't control when we go. I now realize that God actually controls when we go and I personally believe he planned out every little detail of our lives. What do you guys think?
Of course, we all start dying from the moment we’re born. The key is finding Christ in this life. It’s so important that I believe God doesn’t allow for random death perhaps.
No, probably for about the 20 or so years for most people, you are getting stronger and better, the opposite of dying. Sometime between then and 30ish you start dying.Of course, we all start dying from the moment we’re born. The key is finding Christ in this life. It’s so important that I believe God doesn’t allow for random death perhaps.
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