Do you think death is random?

ImAllLikeOkWaitWat

For who can resist his will?
Aug 18, 2015
5,531
2,860
✟326,357.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
In the early parts of my life I kind of assumed it was just bad luck if someone died but the more I lived the more I realized we don't control when we go. I now realize that God actually controls when we go and I personally believe he planned out every little detail of our lives. What do you guys think?
 

Maria Billingsley

Well-Known Member
Supporter
Oct 7, 2018
9,573
7,772
63
Martinez
✟893,850.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
In the early parts of my life I kind of assumed it was just bad luck if someone died but the more I lived the more I realized we don't control when we go. I now realize that God actually controls when we go and I personally believe he planned out every little detail of our lives. What do you guys think?
There are some who think He plans our lives in every detail however, free will would not exist. We would just be , for lack of a better word, robots. I believe our Father created us to have a relationship with Him. This is only genuine if both parties agree. Now He does have foreknowledge but that is not the same as foreordained which brings me to your OP. He knows when we die and how we die but He does not orchestrate the entire event. Be blessed.
 
Upvote 0

FutureAndAHope

Just me
Supporter
Aug 30, 2008
6,362
2,910
Australia
Visit site
✟732,859.00
Country
Australia
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Death is controlled by God to a degree, He makes the choice of whether we die or live.

Mat 10:29 Are not sparrows two a farthing? and not one of them comes to an end without your Father:

As for our lives, they are directed in two ways, primarily by our choices, yet God puts limits on what we can and can't do, places we may be, people we may meet.

Act 17:26-27 And he has made of one blood all the nations of men living on all the face of the earth, ordering their times and the limits of their lands, So that they might make search for God, in order, if possible, to get knowledge of him and make discovery of him, though he is not far from every one of us:

But we can't take this limit to say God controls everything we do, for we see in Genisis that God was shocked by the way man responded to Him, and He wished He had not created them.

Gen 6:6-7 And the Lord had sorrow because he had made man on the earth, and grief was in his heart. And the Lord said, I will take away man, whom I have made, from the face of the earth, even man and beast and that which goes on the earth and every bird of the air; for I have sorrow for having made them.
 
Upvote 0

ImAllLikeOkWaitWat

For who can resist his will?
Aug 18, 2015
5,531
2,860
✟326,357.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
God has the power to get what he wants and not have it infringe on our free will. He can do this by putting us in situations that lead us to doing what he wants. We do have free will but it's layered underneath God's will.
 
  • Agree
Reactions: Deade
Upvote 0

FutureAndAHope

Just me
Supporter
Aug 30, 2008
6,362
2,910
Australia
Visit site
✟732,859.00
Country
Australia
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
God has the power to get what he wants and not have it infringe on our free will. He can do this by putting us in situations that lead us to doing what he wants. We do have free will but it's layered underneath God's will.

The bible says that "All things work together for the good of those who love God", God does have a way of working each situation out to our benefit. But He is not a cruel taskmaster, micromanaging our every step, to His will.

As for sin, the Bible tells us God does not "make any one sin", but we sin because of our lusts.

Jas 1:13-14 Let no man say when he is tested, I am tested by God; for it is not possible for God to be tested by evil, and he himself puts no man to such a test: But every man is tested when he is turned out of the right way by the attraction of his desire.

Luk 17:1-2 And he said to his disciples, It is necessary for causes of trouble to come about, but unhappy is he by whom they come. It would be well for him if a great stone was put round his neck and he was dropped into the sea, before he made trouble for any of these little ones.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Deade
Upvote 0

GOD Shines Forth!

Well-Known Member
Supporter
Jan 6, 2019
2,615
2,061
United States
✟355,297.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Single
In the early parts of my life I kind of assumed it was just bad luck if someone died but the more I lived the more I realized we don't control when we go. I now realize that God actually controls when we go and I personally believe he planned out every little detail of our lives. What do you guys think?

While driving on the freeway have you ever had a pair of motorcycles fly past you at warp speed and send a chill down your spine, for them and for you?

Last night I was entering the freeway and began to merge onto the first lane and in a split second I had a sense to turn back right and stay as two motorcycles flew right past me. They were probably going about 90+ and had swerved from the left lanes over to the one I was about to get on.

Their life was surely saved, mine more likely. I knew the Lord had kept them and me from dying right then. Praise Him I did!!!
And do.
 
Upvote 0

ImAllLikeOkWaitWat

For who can resist his will?
Aug 18, 2015
5,531
2,860
✟326,357.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
But He is not a cruel taskmaster, micromanaging our every step, to His will.

I wouldn't say he's micromanaging our life but I would say that he's involved in every detail of our life whether we know it or not. Have you ever looked back at a situation in your life and get that aha moment where you were able to piece together God's involvement in putting you through a difficult situation and getting you through? Well I believe that exists at every level of our life. We just can't see it because we don't think every part of our life matters. If this is true then the implications are huge. It means our life matters, that everything we do matters. That God is in full control of our life and we need not worry over anything. If you believe God is involved in every element of your life then you are free to act authentically without worry about saying the wrong thing or doing the wrong thing for you know God is in control. Or you could just not believe God is in control and then you have a battle on your hands because you have to figure whos running the show, but I can assure you if you take that path it's not you.
 
  • Agree
Reactions: Deade
Upvote 0

St_Worm2

Simul Justus et Peccator
Supporter
Jan 28, 2002
27,246
45,333
67
✟2,915,768.00
Country
United States
Faith
Calvinist
Marital Status
Married
God has the power to get what he wants and not have it infringe on our free will. He can do this by putting us in situations that lead us to doing what he wants. We do have free will but it's layered underneath God's will.
Hello ImAllLikeOkWaitWat, since God ordains* whatsoever comes to pass (or it does not come to pass ;)) I mostly agree with your assessment. If He did not (ordain everything), no prophesy or promise of His could ever be counted on by us, and claims like He makes in the passage below would amount to nothing more than wishful thinking on His part (if a single molecule in the universe existed outside of His purview/control, that is).

Isaiah 46
9 "I am God, and there is no other;
I am God, and there is no one like Me,
10 Declaring the end from the beginning,
And from ancient times things which have not been done,
Saying, ‘My purpose will be established,
And I will accomplish all My good pleasure.’"

As for what you said in your OP (the part in bold above, in particular), since the Lord put our first parents in a situation that included a tree that they were not allowed to eat from, and a being to tempt them into doing just that, do you believe that God "wanted" them to sin? Why/why not?

Thanks!

--David

*(I believe that God's ordination of all things includes Him causing some things to occur, allowing some things to occur, as well prohibiting some things from occurring, just FYI)
 
Upvote 0

Mark Quayle

Monergist; and by reputation, Reformed Calvinist
Supporter
May 28, 2018
13,005
5,621
68
Pennsylvania
✟780,875.00
Country
United States
Faith
Reformed
Marital Status
Widowed
In the early parts of my life I kind of assumed it was just bad luck if someone died but the more I lived the more I realized we don't control when we go. I now realize that God actually controls when we go and I personally believe he planned out every little detail of our lives. What do you guys think?
Amen brother! In fact, every little detail about everything.
 
Upvote 0

ImAllLikeOkWaitWat

For who can resist his will?
Aug 18, 2015
5,531
2,860
✟326,357.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
As for what you said in your OP (the part in bold above), since the Lord put our first parents in a situation that included a tree that they were not allowed to eat from, and a being to tempt them into doing just that, do you believe that God "wanted" them to sin? Why/why not?

I don't think he wanted them to sin but I believe he viewed it as "no matter what you think or do I'm gonna get what I want in the end". And what's interesting about that is we don't exactly know what he wants other than the best for us. This is why we need faith, to trust in him because we don't necessarily know what's good for us or bad, especially in the end. You can look at a situation where something bad happens and say oh well that's bad, but maybe what happened is actually the best possible thing that could happen in the grand scheme.
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

Mark Quayle

Monergist; and by reputation, Reformed Calvinist
Supporter
May 28, 2018
13,005
5,621
68
Pennsylvania
✟780,875.00
Country
United States
Faith
Reformed
Marital Status
Widowed
I don't think he wanted them to sin but I believe he viewed it as "no matter what you think or do I'm gonna get what I want in the end". And what's interesting about that is we don't exactly know what he wants other than the best for us. This is why we need faith, to trust in him because we don't necessarily know what's good for us or bad, especially in the end. You can look at a situation where something bad happens and say oh well that's bad, but maybe what happened is actually the best possible thing that could happen in the grand scheme.
Like most Christians, you seem to think mere chance has some kind of authority in causation. It is self-contradictory to say so.

God knew exactly what was going to happen, because he caused it to happen. There is no such thing as chance --that is "just a placeholder for, 'I don't know'."
 
Upvote 0

Clare73

Blood-bought
Jun 12, 2012
24,924
6,049
North Carolina
✟273,604.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican
There are some who think He plans our lives in every detail however, free will would not exist.
Keeping in mind that foreknowledge does not preclude human will, God uses human will by internally moving it. We willingly agree, we do not act against our will, but in accordance with our will.
We would just be , for lack of a better word, robots. I believe our Father created us to have a relationship with Him. This is only genuine if both parties agree. Now He does have foreknowledge but that is not the same as foreordained which brings me to your OP. He knows when we die and how we die but He does not orchestrate the entire event. Be blessed.
 
Upvote 0

Mark Quayle

Monergist; and by reputation, Reformed Calvinist
Supporter
May 28, 2018
13,005
5,621
68
Pennsylvania
✟780,875.00
Country
United States
Faith
Reformed
Marital Status
Widowed
Keeping in mind that foreknowledge does not preclude human will, God uses human will by internally moving it. We willingly agree, we do not act against our will, but in accordance with our will.
Exactly. Thank you.
 
  • Agree
Reactions: Deade
Upvote 0

Mark Quayle

Monergist; and by reputation, Reformed Calvinist
Supporter
May 28, 2018
13,005
5,621
68
Pennsylvania
✟780,875.00
Country
United States
Faith
Reformed
Marital Status
Widowed
The bible says that "All things work together for the good of those who love God", God does have a way of working each situation out to our benefit. But He is not a cruel taskmaster, micromanaging our every step, to His will.

As for sin, the Bible tells us God does not "make any one sin", but we sin because of our lusts.

Jas 1:13-14 Let no man say when he is tested, I am tested by God; for it is not possible for God to be tested by evil, and he himself puts no man to such a test: But every man is tested when he is turned out of the right way by the attraction of his desire.

Luk 17:1-2 And he said to his disciples, It is necessary for causes of trouble to come about, but unhappy is he by whom they come. It would be well for him if a great stone was put round his neck and he was dropped into the sea, before he made trouble for any of these little ones.

You anthropomorphize God to describe the two possibles this way. God needn't "micromanage" to control every detail. He spoke the whole business --complete-- into existence. Looking at it from God's viewpoint, what is the difference? He is not time dependent. He MADE this. The whole thing. Every detail.

You have him swimming in this mess with us, as if he is a better swimmer.
 
Upvote 0

ImAllLikeOkWaitWat

For who can resist his will?
Aug 18, 2015
5,531
2,860
✟326,357.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
God knew exactly what was going to happen, because he caused it to happen.

I'm not exactly sure if I completely agree with you here. Mainly because I don't think knowing something is going to happen is the same as causing it. I do imagine reality working in such a way in which God is behind the person who makes every move. The person is the avatar or representation for events that transpire but God is the source behind them working constantly behind the scenes to make his will manifest.
 
  • Friendly
Reactions: Deade
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

St_Worm2

Simul Justus et Peccator
Supporter
Jan 28, 2002
27,246
45,333
67
✟2,915,768.00
Country
United States
Faith
Calvinist
Marital Status
Married
...we don't exactly know what he wants other than the best for us. This is why we need faith, to trust in him because we don't necessarily know what's good for us or bad, especially in the end. You can look at a situation where something bad happens and say oh well that's bad, but maybe what happened is actually the best possible thing that could happen in the grand scheme.
I agree, and so does pastor/theologian Charles H. Spurgeon.

--David

Spurgeon - Kiss, Waves, Rock of Ages.png
 
Upvote 0

Clare73

Blood-bought
Jun 12, 2012
24,924
6,049
North Carolina
✟273,604.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican
While driving on the freeway have you ever had a pair of motorcycles fly past you at warp speed and send a chill down your spine, for them and for you?

Last night I was entering the freeway and began to merge onto the first lane and in a split second I had a sense to turn back right and stay as two motorcycles flew right past me. They were probably going about 90+ and had swerved from the left lanes over to the one I was about to get on.

Their life was surely saved, mine more likely. I knew the Lord had kept them and me from dying right then. Praise Him I did!!!
And do.
My husband and I had a similar experience with a speeding sports car on Christmas night some years ago, going at least 100 mph according to observers, where we escaped a full broadside on the passenger's (my) side of the car by less than a second.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: Deade
Upvote 0

GOD Shines Forth!

Well-Known Member
Supporter
Jan 6, 2019
2,615
2,061
United States
✟355,297.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Single
My husband and I had a similar experience with a speeding race car on Christmas night some years ago, going at least 100 mph according to observers, where we escaped by less than a second.

Amazing isn’t it? I was talking to someone recently about how several times in our lives we could have died, but were spared. I think everyone has those, but it’s nice for a believer to see God's hand of protection and the blessing of more time.
 
Upvote 0

Mark Quayle

Monergist; and by reputation, Reformed Calvinist
Supporter
May 28, 2018
13,005
5,621
68
Pennsylvania
✟780,875.00
Country
United States
Faith
Reformed
Marital Status
Widowed
I'm not exactly sure if I completely agree with you here. Mainly because I don't think knowing something is going to happen is the same as causing it. I do imagine reality working in such a way in which God is behind the person who makes every move. The person is the avatar or representation for events that transpire but God is the source behind them working constantly behind the scenes to make his will manifest.
This "reality" you reference --is it not God's 'invention', created by him? Or do you think it 'just is'? If God is subject to it, and not its owner and master, he is not God.

The supposedly 'natural', (though it is not falsifiable), law of cause-and-effect, demands that absolutely everything is caused, and within a chain, beginning with first cause. (Well, to be fair, some like the notion of infinite regression of causes, but that is another matter --it doesn't change this point). Therefore, absolutely everything we think is random, spontaneous, chance or autonomous is not, except God[see edit]. It is illogical to even say he can 'hand off' some of it to us.

(Edit: Not at all meaning that God is chance or random.)

That doesn't mean we are robots, because robots have no will. We behave and decide according to our will, Regenerated, or At Enmity with Christ.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

ImAllLikeOkWaitWat

For who can resist his will?
Aug 18, 2015
5,531
2,860
✟326,357.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
The supposedly 'natural', (though it is not falsifiable), law of cause-and-effect, demands that absolutely everything is caused, and within a chain, beginning with first cause. (Well, to be fair, some like the notion of infinite regression of causes, but that is another matter --it doesn't change this point). Therefore, absolutely everything we think is random, spontaneous, chance or autonomous is not, except God. It is illogical to even say he can 'hand off' some of it to us.

And you're saying God caused Adam and eve to sin because of this law? Okay now I see what you mean and agree. It's just seems weird to say God caused evil but if he didn't then who did? I don't think the cause you mean is the same cause people think. Most think if you cause evil you are evil because you caused it but God caused evil more in an indirect way out of necessity it seems.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Deade
Upvote 0