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Do you think any one denomination is right?

Discussion in 'Non-denominational' started by layne, Sep 13, 2002.

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  1. layne

    layne ByKr ChYk

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    Wow, a lot happens when it's the weekend and I am away!
    Pastor NB, I read that Catholicism was the first church. This is confusing. I also don't understand your posts regarding the trinity. (Perhaps this is because of the generation gap, and different lingo used? :))
    Are you saying that Jesus, God and the Holy Spirit are serperate, but part of the same Godhead? Or that they are one in the same? That Jesus is God, God is God and The Holy Spirit is God, and they are all God?
     
  2. Pastor N.B.

    Pastor N.B. Member

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  3. layne

    layne ByKr ChYk

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    Thanks, PNB. I really get mixed messages about the Trinity. Some people are saying Jesus is God, and others are saying they are seperate entities, but part of the same Godhead. I find that easier to understand. Thank you!
    And I didn't really think that the Catholic was the first church, but it's also said to be the church Jesus started, is that true?
     
  4. Pastor N.B.

    Pastor N.B. Member

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    No that is not true.
    There is absolutely no resemblance to the 'Fold' that Christ started, in Catholic theology! Try 1 Jn. 2:4. The commandments have been changed. And try Rev. 22:9's last book of the Master's word. The boss has people falling down kissing his ring & confessing sin to his fellow helpers.
    Even the angels of the Universe KEEP the sayings of the book. Not Catholics.
    Are there good sincere Catholics in that fold? Surely! Try John 10:16. Yet the 'Fold' itself is what has to be given up when by knowledge of inspiration, one is convicted. Read what happens to His people who dis/obey in Rev. 18:4. This is not complicated if one TRUELY LOVES THEIR MASTER. (one either believes the Word of God or is seen as the Mark 7:7 vain worshipers) ---P/N/B/

    PS. Look at Isa. 5 about the Lords Virgin [Vineyard]. (FOLD or Denomination) Lotice the Wording in verse 3? "JUDGE, I PRAY YOU, [BETWIXT] ME AND MY VINEYARD". & verse 7 tells us that the Vineyard is the House of Israel." ( FOLD, VINEYARD, DENOMINATION-Spiritual Israel are seen in Rom. 2:28-29)
     
  5. EJO

    EJO Hellafreak

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    What does Seventh Day Adventism Teach?

    Affirmations

    The Bible is inspired and the word of God.
    Trinitarian: The Father, Son, Holy Spirit are all one God in three persons.
    Jesus is God and has always existed with the Father.
    The Holy Spirit is a person.
    Jesus' sacrifice was vicarious.
    Salvation is by grace, not works.
    Jesus rose from the dead physically in his glorified body.
    Jesus ascended bodily into heaven.
    Baptism is by immersion
    The literal, visible return of Jesus.
    Jesus will return to set up a millennial kingdom. They are Premillennial.
    Literal six day creation, not long periods.

    Denials

    Denies the doctrine of predestination
    Denies baptism by sprinkling
    Denies infant baptism.
    Denies the immortality of the soul.
    Denies the eternality of hell fire.
    Denies any use of alcohol (as a drink) or tobacco.

    Aberrant

    Our sins will ultimately be placed on Satan - The Great Controversy, p. 422, 485.
    Jesus is Michael the Archangel.
    Worship must be done on Saturday (the Sabbath).
    On October 22, 1844 Jesus entered the second and last phase of his atoning work.
    Investigative Judgment - the fate of all people will be decided based upon this event in the future.
    The dead do not exist anymore -- soul sleep.
    The wicked are annihilated.
    Ellen G. White, the "founder" of Seventh Day Adventism, was a messenger from God gifted with the spirit of prophecy.
    There is a sanctuary in heaven where Jesus carries out his mediatorial work.


    SOURCE: http://www.carm.org/sda/teachings.htm
     
  6. Pastor N.B.

    Pastor N.B. Member

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    Hi, P/N/B/ here:
    A couple thoughts :scratch: The Bible says a truth in Rev. 3:16-17. "naked" "Blind" and they say... 'm'aster I,I,I,I,I, need NOTHING! (reality translation)

    So lets do an experiment. Most know perhaps, that the serpent was the 'd'evil in the garden, (Rev. 12) and it was he who was talking to Eve? Now just suppose that after she & Adam were created on the 6th day of creation, that the next day being the Sabbath day of the Lord, (you know, Memorial day of creation. see Psalms 135:13) that the Creator gave these two their first Sabbath sermon!? :) Now, for Christ's sermon topic? How about, the one in the garden?
    's'atan? evil, sin, PERVERSION, a liar from the beginning, we are told!? Maybe Eve did not have the perfect knowledge that we do today about satan, huh? Maybe she was kept in the dark, but not us huh?

    Let just suppose that Adam & Eve [were] created 'perfect'! And perhaps the Masters first sermon told both of them about the rebellion in heaven? And that Lucifer was the first covering cherub over the Ark wherein were the Universial [eternal Covenant], the Royal Law, the ten commandments. (Eze. 28) And then [we see] that he apostasized. (big time) Now we need to remember that the Masters (creator) Words of caution were to stay [AWAY] from this created being! But what does the Woman do??

    Just perhaps she (as most of us today [do]) says, well, Lord you created me [perfect!] (not just good anyway, but VERY GOOD) And this Lucifer ex/angel person?? Well Lord, with me being perfect & all, and you know that I believe in you, and that [I,I,I,I,I,] cannot fall from grace, you know Lord, everlasting Gospel MERCY, and Lord, Lucifer knows all about Seventh-day Adventists! And the [MERCY SEAT] that he was once the covering cherub over! And I was inquisitive Lord!!---AND I JUST KNEW THAT hE COULD TEACH ME SOMETHING!! (and he sure did & will! go see, huh?)

    Why Master did I not come to you for the Truth first? Your WORD?? Instead of having 'another' tell me of these false ones? (Seventh-day Adventist Virgin doctrines) And instead of going on the devils ground, to inquire about [your doctrines], you ask? Lord I am confussed, really :confused: Was not Lucifer a one time Seventh-day Adventist in your Fold??? Surely he would not lead me astray would he Lord??? I mean Lord, he knows all about your Law, Everlasting Covenant, and your Mercy Seat in the Throng room of heaven! The HEAVENLY SANCTUARY! Psalms 77:13.

    Yes, Eve might not have heard this sermon & did not walk on the devils ground [persumptously]? But that IS NOT YOU HERE'S CASE! Psalms 19:13. You have ALL 66 BOOKS OF INSPIRATION to learn true DOCTRINE from, without going to the forbidden tree to eat of its forbidden fruit! 2 Tim. 3:16- Rev. 18:4?

    If one wants to know what Seventh-day Adventist [really] believe? Go to
    the site of [Amazing Facts]. Just write it in in your top ADDRESS & click on it.
    This below post not only voids out Christ & His Eternal Law & Everlasting Gospel, but clearly is seen in 2 Cor. 4:2 as DOING SO!
    P/N/B/

    PS: Error in Doctrine is not the trouble with the Adventist Denomination.
    But no one can be in the [Virgin Fold] without this Doctrine! It takes both to make a [Virgin denomination]. [Christ 'and' His true Virgin Doctrines]!
    +++++++++

     
  7. layne

    layne ByKr ChYk

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    In EJO's post, what does affirmations, denials, and aberrant mean?
     
  8. EJO

    EJO Hellafreak

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    It is a general , broadstroke look of the beliefs and doctrines that the 7 day Adventists

    -They affirm ...(these are general/specific christian doctrines)

    -they deny... looking at this list I myself am not to big fan of infant baptism, and I do not deny alcohol (in moderation) if someone smokes, they do not loose thier salvation, they might loose a lung. I personally hate alchohol/tabacco.

    -and there following aberrant beliefs that they have are...

    I know some people who go to 7th day churches, and they might not see these issues come up from thier pulpit, or they might not know these things exsist. But knowing that they do is important.

    As for as the post by Pastor NB- that came from left field, and I really have no idea what you are trying to communicate in the post.

    Peace- EJO
     
  9. Pastor N.B.

    Pastor N.B. Member

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  10. Caedmon

    Caedmon kawaii Supporter

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    If I was investigating what a group did or did not believe, then I would research their beliefs and their interpretations of Scripture, not Scripture. I would investigate their beliefs and read their writings, such as catechisms and confessions. Then I could go down a "list" for the group by their own words... "We believe in X... We do not believe in X". Is it not right to read that a Seventh Day Adventist believes that the Sabbath in on Saturday, and that a Seventh Day Adventist does not believe that the Sabbath is on Sunday?
     
  11. Pastor N.B.

    Pastor N.B. Member

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    Hi again Joe: (sounds right to me, but only if one TESTS that doctrine by the 66 Books of the Word itself see 2 Tim. 3:16?)
    Lets try it on another Fold, and include Protestantents, who say that they get their doctrines from the Word? Well, that is not the case either, for Catholicism say that they can change scripture as 'their leader' sees fit.
    But as far as I am concerned Joe, using your standard, ALL OF THE BELOW DENOMINATIONS ARE GUILTY OF James 2:10-12 & are of the wrong 'fold'.

    Any how here are some denominational statements:

    "It is well to remind the Presbyterians, Baptists, Methodists, and all other Christians, that the Bible does not support them anywhere in their observance of Sunday. Sunday is an institution of the Roman Catholic Church, and those who observe the day observe a commandment of the Catholic Church". -Priest Brady, in an address, reported in the Elizabeth, N.J. 'News', March 18, 1903.

    Another: "Protestants ... accept Sunday rather than Saturday as the day for publicc worship after the Catholic Church made the change ... But the Protestant mind does not seem to realize that ... in observing the Sunday, they are accepting the authority of the spokesman for the church, the Pope." -Our Sunday Visitor, February 5, 1950.

    "It was the Catholic Church which, by the authority of Jesus Christ, has transferred this rest (from the Bible Sabbath) to the Sunday ... Thus the observance of Sunday by the Protestants is a homage they pay, in spite of themselves, to the authority of the (Catholic) Church." -Plain Talk about Protestants of Today, pg. 213

    And what does the Master say in Mark 7:7. And again see HIS Word of all capital lettering in Rev. 17:5! "MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT, THE [MOTHER OF HARLOTS] AND ABOMINATION OF THE EARTH." :sleep:

    And now for some others with Knowledge. See Hosea 4:6 for a fact! And what of Luke 12:47-48? :cry:

    Baptist: "There was and is a command to keep holy the Sabbath day, but that Sabbath day was not Sunday. It will however be readily said, and with some show of triumph, that the Sabbath was transferred from the seventh day to the first day of the week, with all of its duties, privaliges and sanctions. Earnestly desiring information on this subject, which I have studied for many years. I ask, where can the record of such a transaction be found? Not in the New Testament---absolutely not. There is no scriptual evidence of the change of the Sabbath institution from the seventh day to the first day of the week."--Dr. E.T. Hiscox, author of the Baptist Manual.

    Congregationalist: "It is quite clear that however rigidly or devotedly we may spend Sunday, we are not keeping the Sabbath ... The Sabbath was founded on specific, divine command. We can plead no such command for the observance of Sunday ... There is not a single line in the New Testament to suggest that we incur any penalty by violating the supposed sanctity of Sunday." -Dr. R.W. Dale, The Ten Commandments, pgs. 106-107.

    Now, there are another six or so 'denominations' quotes that I have before me. If one was interested? But the bottom line is in these few above ones.

    Let me close this out with a Word from the beloved John, in 1 John 2:4.

    "He that saieth, I know (love) Him, and [keepeth not] His commandments, is a liar, and the [TRUTH IS NOT IN HIM]". ---P/N/B/
     
  12. Caedmon

    Caedmon kawaii Supporter

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    Interesting... I've seen those quotes before. Tell me... has the Hebrew calendar been without flaw since the beginnings of the Jewish people? How do we know that Saturday is the exact day of the Sabbath?

    And why should I not celebrate the Sabbath on the day the Lord rose from the grave? And why does it matter which day I honor the Sabbath, as long as it is a "seventh day"? Perhaps I should also use only Yahweh when I talk to God as well? Perhaps I should adopt "sacred name" practice? What is the limit to this? Should I not eat of pork? Should I stone the son that curses? Should I declare the mold "unclean"? Tell me... :scratch:
     
  13. Pastor N.B.

    Pastor N.B. Member

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    Remember Joe,
    that you NEED the Word of God for the answer. First, does it matter? Did it matter what the loving sacrifice Cain offered up, was? (fruit or Lamb, or Sabbath or Sunday fruit? Mark 7:7) That should be enough of many, illustrations. You most likely need to re/read the Ex. 16 account. Start with verse 4-5 & then 26-28 & then 35.

    And about the DAY? The account was that God Blessed the Day, and [SET IT ASIDE FOR HOLY USE]. Use the illustration of seven women & you are married to the seventh one? Does it matter if you take the first one home with you? (only one is 'blessed' & 'set aside for Holy use') And remember that there was no sin even yet.

    It is His Day regardless of time limit or our lifetime. He tells that it is HIS MEMORIAL in Psalms 135:13. (you understand that? every seventh day is the Memorial of creation throughout *ALL GENERATIONS) It will be kept in the new earth, :clap: see Isaiah 66:22-23. And what was it that the Angel told John, when he was aw/struck & fell down in worship? Read it in Rev.'s last chapter verse 8-9!

    The day that the Lord rose from the grave? (that is what baptism signifies.. DEATH, BURIAL, RESURECTION) Tell us Joe, where the Word commands this & I will obey! (see Acts 5:32) It just plain is not there! (as Hiscox points out from a long time study)
    Next came 'logic' (?) of how do we know the exact day? The same way that Sunday is known by Sunday professors. Our calender came about by the 'days' of Christ.

    Joe: this sounds more like Cain's temperment. But [if] you want answer's? Then understand that there two laws that stand out in Scripture. Deut 31 is a good place to 'see' these. One Moses wrote in a book & they were put in [THE SIDE] of the Ark, [WHERE AS THE TEN COMMANDMENT ROYAL LAW WAS PLACED *INSIDE THE ARK]. (try Rev. 11:19) Moses law were done away at the cross. It was 'added because of sin' (Gal. 3:19 perhaps)
    Type met anti/type. (did you go to the site that I gave?--If you really want to grow, do so. It is a good site.)

    About a name Joe? Rom. 2:14-15 teach that there will be 'folk' saved who had never even heard [the name] of our Master! But NOTICE what they would have done if they had? "Which [shew the work of the law *written in their hearts] ..." Try our 'first heart transplant' as seen in 2 Cor. 3:3, this [IS] the 'BORN AGAIN' of John 3:5-10. (notice where the Royal law is now located) And it is THIS [WORKING] FAITH THAT WORSHIPS THE MASTER, not the professing of His name! Again Acts 5:32.

    And this other stuff? Even the 'milk' fed, can see Gen. 9:5 telling us in todays 'light' that flesh food shortens life? Try Gen. 13:10 on? From around 1000 yr. olds to this. Why? But also consider the Master's Word of Isa. 66:15-17 for the TRUTH!

    This is long enough! :) But remember that our Master said 'IF YE *LOVE ME KEEP MY COMMANDMENTS' And there was a commandment of sorts for us in Matt. 4:4, huh? "Man doeth not live by bread alone, but by [EVERY WORD THAT PROCEEDETH OUT OF THE MOUTH OF GOD]. That is enough for me and my house :bow: ----P/N/B/
     
  14. Caedmon

    Caedmon kawaii Supporter

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    You preach excellently Pastor N.B.(however that is taken :D ) I think I am beginning to understand your position. At first I misunderstood, but I'm following your "cadence" now, yes? :D Of course, I will have to take time to study these things and perhaps talk later. Although I am not sure of the importance of keeping the Sabbath exactly on Saturday, I do recognize that it is ambiguous as to the reasoning behind a Sunday Sabbath. There is a tidbit about the Catholic Church(although I am not Catholic) though that perhaps you find interesting... the Catholic Church offers "mass" on Saturday. What belief could come of this? It is interesting. But that aside, as I said, I will have to study the Sabbath and its day for a time before I continue to speak on this. Blessings :wave:
     
  15. Pastor N.B.

    Pastor N.B. Member

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    Joe:
    It takes time to mature. I sincerely hope that you go to the site posted. (I will post it again) For me at least, understanding this Sanctuary subject has done more than any subject to ground me I believe. It is a 'good' study & well done. Just understanding a few of the articles are important.

    Case in point: David said that he did not understand the end of the rich wicked until he went into the Sanctuary. Read Psalms 73:12-17
    Now if he told you this today, would you understand him???

    There is nothing in the Master's Word that does not 'cluster' around the Sanctuary! {nothing}.

    http://biblelight.net/temple.htm

    Your are in my prayers---P/N/B/
     
  16. Gerry

    Gerry Jesus Paid It All

    +10
    Browsing this thread I am sickened by some of the responses I have seen. It is tragic when one who is searching comes and is subjected to so much non sense that not only does not honor God but does damage to the one seeking.

    But there is always those willing to turn a serious honest question into a topic for debate that should belong in Apologetics.

    She should have been told simply about the hideous cult of JW, and told how to seek a Bible Believing Church.

    But apparently that is not what this thread is about.
     
  17. Pastor N.B.

    Pastor N.B. Member

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    Hi again Layne: :),-----------------(added emphasis)
    P/N/B/ here:Let me give you Words of caution, OK? There are many denominations who do evangelism, they are LOOKING for you! (not just some named ones) Read for yourself the [MASTER'S WORDS] of Matt. 23:15.

    Now, let me print for you another 'exact Wording' from [CHRIST] , OK? And please be on guard for ALL evangelist who CALL HIS WORDS HERE FOOLISHNESS! :cry: Here is His COMMANDMENT.

    "GO ye therefore, and [teach] all nations, baptizing them in the name of [the Father], and of [the SON], and [of the HOLY GHOST]: ((notice that some call this nonsence)) Teaching them [TO OBSERVE *ALL THINGS WHATSOEVER *I HAVE COMMANDED YOU].." Matt. 28:19-20 in part. Try 2 Tim. 3:16 for some more TRUTH!

    Notice Nehemiah 9:12-14 (in part) Layne?
    A [Christian church should] teach this [inspired truth].

    "Moreover [thou] ledest them in the day by a cloudy pillar; and in the night by a pillar of fire, ... [THOU CAMEST DOWN *ALSO UPON MOUNT SINAI, AND SPAKEST WITH THEM FROM HEAVEN, *AND GAVEST THEM RIGHT JUDGEMENTS, AND TRUE LAWS, AND STATUTES AND [*COMMANDMENTS:] AND MADEST KNOWN UNTO THEM [*THY HOLY SABBATH], ..." Who is this thou God???

    Paul tells us who this God is! Inspiration uses the Word 'IGNORANT'. (Printed in part only, you can read it all) But REMEMBER in the Matt. 28:20 verse, that Christ said to keep His Commandments, TO TEACH THIS!

    And here in 1 Cor. 10:1-4 Paul penned these Words, that tell us who it was that came [down on Mt. Sinai and gave Moses the 10 Commandments.
    "Moreover, brethern, I would not that ye should be [ignorant], how that all ... And did all eat the same [spiritual meat]; And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that [spiritual ROCK that followed them: *AND THAT ROCK WAS CHRIST]." (not 'p'eter either!)

    Hope that this helps you in finding Christs True fold! Rom. 8:14 And remember that Christ stated a Truth, "IF" ye love me, KEEP MY COMMAMDMENTS".. ALL TEN!---P/N/B/
     
  18. growingupinhim

    growingupinhim Well-Known Member

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    I agree..also though evidence of being converted is that you bear some fruits.. In galtians are the fruits of the spirit..I am amzed how many don't want to be sanctify, but love grace when the knowingly and wantingly remain in sinful lifestyles (especially sexual immorality)
    Peace!
     
  19. Celticflower

    Celticflower charity crocheter

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    To get back to the original question of this thread--is any one denomination right?

    Here is my opinion--take it for what it is worth, accept it, reject it, print it out and put it on the dart board--it is still just mine.

    Just as there was no ONE right way for Christ to perform a miracle (see the healings of the 2 blind men mentioned in the Bible), I do not believe there is any ONE right way for God to talk to our hearts. He uses what works best for the individual.
    So while there may be groups that are dead wrong in their teachings, and no one denomination can claim to be the only right church, I feel that there is a right denomination (or congregation) for each person. Find a church that is trying to be Biblical (none are perfect), that teaches and feeds your soul and that reaches out beyond the walls of the church building to bring God's love to others. Stay away from churches that "need" extra "scripture", teach things which are historically as well as Biblically wrong and have closed worship services (i.e. no visitors from outside their denomination/cult/group). Most importantly, ask God to direct you to the place you belong, the place where He can use you the best, the place where He can help you grow the most.
     
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