Do you REALLY believe in Hell??

[Dionysiou]

how much can you believe in something youve never seen or experienced. I believe in passing, because i havent gone to hell before. The whole idea is just freaking scary though, i mean tortured forever? why even bring somebody to life if you know theyll end up there?

 

[fm107]

God regretted making man when he seen the fall into sin.

Genesis 6:6
And it repented the LORD that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart.

But he stuck with us through his love for us. He even sent his own son to suffer and die for us sinful men so that everyone could be presented with an opportunity of being set free from our sins.

Everyday God's love can be seen for us in creation, everyday he speaks through his own creation, reaching out to men because he wants them all to be saved.

2 peter 3:9
The Lord is not slow in keeping his promise, as some understand slowness. He is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish, but everyone to come to repentance.

 

[solarwave]

But it is not as if God didn't know man would fall into sin and be destined to die. There must be an overall good then which cancels out the temporary bad.

 

[Daretothink]

Would proof of existance actually help? Im not saying there is no reason to believe, but the type of reason you want.

Yes, it would. With proof of God's existence you answer the main question really and put an end to the conjecture of logically reasoning and such. As of now I have to accept the answers based on what is called "faith". This to me is an unreasonable answer for it has no grounding in past instances or consistent results. If faith were put to the test in the form of prayer and it seemed that those who prayed for an unselfish and all-around Godly reason consistently received an answer to their prayers that was outside reasonable doubt well then I would reconsider the idea of faith, but as it is "faith" is what holds the religion up. How do we know Jesus existed, I ask? A Christian replies "faith". To me this is an unacceptable answer for I can say the same thing to back up a belief in a Sky Turtle, but of course you have the advantage of Hell being a tool to add encouragement.

To add to the answer I have to say that we all have faith the religious and irreligious alike. I have faith in people judged by their past actions and words. I have faith in theoretical physics based in the fact that the applied mathematics allow consistent results in other ways.

God wants people to follow Him and have a relationship with Him. Would knowing God was real mean people would follow Him? To be honest I doubt that. Belief in God doesn't = heaven. If you assume demons are real they believe in God but are not saved because althought they know of God they turn against Him because of pride.

No people wouldn't follow him based on his actions in the Old Testament and such out of principle. I might be one of those people but I would have to know God exists before answering that question. But more people would follow God because he exists and if he shows that he is indeed the Biblical God with the superpowers and whatnot and that he controls an afterlife than more people would be Christians.

To use an analogy I just thought of... Say you live in a desert village. You exist relatively peacefully accept that one day you will run out of food. Everybody runs out of food eventually some younger than others but it is accepted as a part of life in your village. Within your village you hear that their is a magical garden that has everlasting amounts of food and that you just have to believe to get there. Many people know of this place but disagree how to get there. Many people think it is North, many people South. One group listens to a man claiming to be from the garden, another group listens to a man who claims someone from the garden visited him in a dream. There are people who think the garden is a myth to comfort those who are scared that one day they will run out of food. When those people ask why do others believe in a garden, others respond faith. The non-believers in the garden ask for evidence from the garden, a leaf, a berry, or a tree. But as it stands no evidence has been gathered. Some garden-believers claim there to be evidence but it has been largely discarded by the village. One day some people get so convinced of their garden they kill others over it. Why? Because their faith in the garden is strong. You are a garden-believer, you rely on faith because unlike the garden, heaven is not a tangible place like the garden maybe, heaven is an idea that no one can confirm for the inability to come back from death.

So then the problem may be pride. Maybe God asks for faith because faith needs humility (by the way I don't call faith belief without evidence when I use the word). I think one good reason why God doesn't make Himself known to all is because it wouldn't make a massive difference, people would still do their own thing.

People do their own "thing" regardless of religion. People eat pork even though the Bible forbids it. People have sex before marriage even thought he Bible is against it. People do what they ant but still want to get into heaven so they come up with excuses like "the Old Testament doesn't really apply anymore". If blind faith is what matters I think God when he asks me why I didn't believe in Him will get the answer, "a) because you made me have a scientific mind that doesn't accept faith and you didn't present enough evidence"

So then to know God one must say 'God tell me if you exist and prove it in your own way' instead of 'prove to me you exist in this way or that way otherwise I wont believe'. Do you see the difference in mind set. God will prove Himself in a way right for you, but maybe in a way different from how you expect.

If you want God to exist, you will find ways to confirm it. It is just a matter of will to believe.

By the way I don't understand the bit about the Babel fish proving the no existance of God? Explain?

It was just a satire about how many claim that faith is everything when dealing with God. But then they go on to present evidence of God making faith second to evidence.

 

[fm107]

solarwave,

An overall good which cancels out the bad? So Hitler should just not get punished for his sins? Millions die and were terminated under his rule. Yeah, it's good of God to just not punish him. Yeah right, it would be bad of God not to punish him and it would be unjust if he never punished him!

Daretothink,

How do we know Jesus existed, I ask?

Remember he went before a roman court? Well historians have found many documented evidence which proves the existence of Jesus Christ. Even non-believers who know there history know that Jesus existed, there is no disagreement there.

heaven is an idea that no one can confirm for the inability to come back from death.

Jesus confirmed it when he rose from the dead on the third day.

But as it stands no evidence has been gathered.

There are over a thousand pieces of evidence to prove the bible is what it says it is. There are Christian museums which show real findings which 100% back up what the bible says.

The bible was hundreds of years ahead of it's time scientifically, it has ample scientific facts. For example, it states in the bible that the world was round. It wasn't until Christopher Columbus until they found out the world wasn't flat! The bible has been used to find lost geographical areas. It is historically sound.

But never mind all that. Look around you, what more evidence is there of God than creation? If I pointed at a car and said, that's a result of a big bang would you believe me? Of course you wouldn't, a car has to have a make, like a building has to have a builder and a portrait a painter. All the life around you didn't just happen by chance. Where does life come from? From life! Life is required to create life. Where have you seen life come from non life before? Please give me an example.

People eat pork even though the Bible forbids it.

This command was given to the Jews ONLY. Since then God has said we are now free to eat all foods, this includes Jews who have believed in the messiah - Jesus and since become Christians:

Romans 14:20
All food is clean

People have sex before marriage even thought he Bible is against it.

This is a great sin in God's eyes and no Christian should be doing this:

1 Thessalonians 4:3
For this is the will of God, even your sanctification, that ye should abstain from fornication

because you made me have a scientific mind that doesn't accept faith and you didn't present enough evidence"

There's plenty of evidence. God in turn could say, "well then why are there millions of people who do believe in me?"

 

[solarwave]

Yes, it would. With proof of God's existence you answer the main question really and put an end to the conjecture of logically reasoning and such. As of now I have to accept the answers based on what is called "faith". This to me is an unreasonable answer for it has no grounding in past instances or consistent results. If faith were put to the test in the form of prayer and it seemed that those who prayed for an unselfish and all-around Godly reason consistently received an answer to their prayers that was outside reasonable doubt well then I would reconsider the idea of faith, but as it is "faith" is what holds the religion up. How do we know Jesus existed, I ask? A Christian replies "faith". To me this is an unacceptable answer for I can say the same thing to back up a belief in a Sky Turtle, but of course you have the advantage of Hell being a tool to add encouragement.

I don't mean would evidence actually help you believe, I mean would evidence actually help you want to know God and live for Him? What good is knowing God exists if you live like everyone else anyway? Knowing God exists (in my opinion) is not as important as a willing heart for God if He exists. So if everyone knew God existed would they all follow Him or would the same percentage say 'forget this' and do their own thing as they do now?

Some may say faith is the answer, some would say there is good reason to believe in God, prehaps most importantly in the resurrection of Jesus. I would reccomend you buy a book on that since I am not able to explain properly.

No people wouldn't follow him based on his actions in the Old Testament and such out of principle. I might be one of those people but I would have to know God exists before answering that question. But more people would follow God because he exists and if he shows that he is indeed the Biblical God with the superpowers and whatnot and that he controls an afterlife than more people would be Christians.

I think the best representation of God is the character of Jesus. Jesus is the revelation of the Father. It may anger so Christians for me to say this, but maybe there is more to God than what the Old Testament writers thought. I say that very unsurely, but if Jesus really rose from the dead then He is the most true expression of God. God is love, forgivness, grace, mercy, but also justice, holiness and perfection. Would you not believe in the God of the New Testament?

To use an analogy I just thought of...

Would I be allowed to add to the analogy that the man who claimed to be from the garden said he would die and rise again on the 3rd day. Those who have faith in Him claim they saw the risen man, but more than that also die (the thing they appear to be most scared of in 'making up' the garden) for the belief that they saw the man from the garden alive after death and so proving the power of the fruit of the garden.

Maybe they just lied about seeing the risen man, but for what gain considering the whole thing would be based on a fear of death, but that is what they gain sooner than they would have otherwise. Remember they KNOW whether they saw the man or not.

People do their own "thing" regardless of religion. People eat pork even though the Bible forbids it. People have sex before marriage even thought he Bible is against it. People do what they want but still want to get into heaven so they come up with excuses like "the Old Testament doesn't really apply anymore". If blind faith is what matters I think God when he asks me why I didn't believe in Him will get the answer, "a) because you made me have a scientific mind that doesn't accept faith and you didn't present enough evidence"

Not all people. Maybe one could question the belief of those who do their own thing. I wouldn't say they are going to hell (assuming its real) but they also arn't living the fullness of what they claim to believe.

Even if the whole Old Testament (which is the law for the jews) did apply it wouldn't mean hell. The Bible says it is by God's love we are saved, not be being 'good'.

And you must know by know that I have never asked for someone to believe by blind faith

If you want God to exist, you will find ways to confirm it. It is just a matter of will to believe.

The same could be said of wanting there to be no God or wanting everything explained by science. You know I have no problem with science or reason, its just whether they are the ultimate thing.

It was just a satire about how many claim that faith is everything when dealing with God. But then they go on to present evidence of God making faith second to evidence.

I knew it was satire, I just didn't understand it XD

Anyway I say all the above while I am searching myself and just trying to give the best explaination I can.

solarwave,
An overall good which cancels out the bad? So Hitler should just not get punished for his sins? Millions die and were terminated under his rule. Yeah, it's good of God to just not punish him. Yeah right, it would be bad of God not to punish him and it would be unjust if he never punished him!

I ment creation must be overall good otherwise God would not have created it.

Should Hitler be punished? I suppose. I would have a stronger emotional want for justice if it were a rapist of a friend though. Even though I would want to smash their head in I wouldn't want them to be in pain forever.

Violence.... tut tut

 

[fm107]

The same could be said of wanting there to be no God or wanting everything explained by science. You know I have no problem with science or reason, its just whether they are the ultimate thing.

Good point, it is normally the other way about. People will try to find some reason not to believe in the one true God.

I ment creation must be overall good otherwise God would not have created it.

Should Hitler be punished? I suppose. I would have a stronger emotional want for justice if it were a rapist of a friend though. Even though I would want to smash their head in I wouldn't want them to be in pain forever.

Violence.... tut tut

Well that is your sense of justice, a sinners justice.

The only reason you are free to condemn the rapist or a murderer is because you haven't committed these sins yourself. But if you did commit them, you would be saying to me they shouldn't be punished. It comes down to what you have done. If you have stolen something then you'd want others who have stolen to have a lighter punishment as well but if someone did something you haven't done before e.g. rape then you'd be so much quicker to condemn them. That is a sinners sense of justice.

As for God, he hasn't done the smallest of sins and therefore is the only one who can be just in all matters.

At then end of the day, I quoted you pile full of scriptures supporting Hell and eistance after death. They directly opposed your views that people don't simply cease to exist upon death. Jesus even stated there will be a day when he will judge everyone who ever lived, in order for that to happen people will need to be raised from the dead in order to be judged according to what they have done.

I urge you to reflect upon the many verses I quoted you and realise the reality of it all. If you don't believe Jesus came to save you from going to this awful place then the question stands, what do you believe?

 

[MoneyGuy]

I believe Hell is not a place with fire but an absence of God. I believe that upon our death we will find out that there is a God and unbelievers will be tortured for eternity by knowing that God exists and that they will forever be without Him.

 

[solarwave]

Well that is your sense of justice, a sinners justice.

The only reason you are free to condemn the rapist or a murderer is because you haven't committed these sins yourself. But if you did commit them, you would be saying to me they shouldn't be punished. It comes down to what you have done. If you have stolen something then you'd want others who have stolen to have a lighter punishment as well but if someone did something you haven't done before e.g. rape then you'd be so much quicker to condemn them. That is a sinners sense of justice.

As for God, he hasn't done the smallest of sins and therefore is the only one who can be just in all matters.

Maybe my sense of justice is wrong, and in time that will be fixed.

It could be because we don't want to be punished ourselves or because when we sin those sins we realised how flawed, dumb and ignorant we are and how easy it can be to sin.

But as you say, we believe God is just and loving and will do the right thing regardless of what I think.

I urge you to reflect upon the many verses I quoted you and realise the reality of it all. If you don't believe Jesus came to save you from going to this awful place then the question stands, what do you believe?

Well He could have saved me from an infinite death or finite punishments, or to show an expression of love that I can't explain at the moment.

I havn't made final decision on this issue.

 

[fm107]

MoneyGuy & Solarwave,

What scriptures do you have to back this up? As it stands, your belief goes against everything the Lord taught. He told us those in Hell were going to be in agony and that it is a place of fire.

Is Jesus lying? Or are you simply refusing to believe what he so blatantly said?

He could not have made it more clearer.

Mathew 25:41
"Then he will say to those on his left, 'Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels."

Mark 9:48
where THEIR WORM DOES NOT DIE, AND THE FIRE IS NOT QUENCHED.

Revelation 14:11
And the smoke of their torment rises for ever and ever. There is no rest day or night for those who worship the beast and his image, or for anyone who receives the mark of his name."

Matthew 18:8
If your hand or your foot causes you to sin, cut it off and throw it away. It is better for you to enter life maimed or crippled than to have two hands or two feet and be thrown into eternal fire.
Hebrews 6:2

instruction about baptisms, the laying on of hands, the resurrection of the dead, and eternal judgment.

Jude 1:7
In a similar way, Sodom and Gomorrah and the surrounding towns gave themselves up to sexual immorality and perversion. They serve as an example of those who suffer the punishment of eternal fire.

Matthew 3:12
His winnowing fork is in his hand, and he will clear his threshing floor, gathering his wheat into the barn and burning up the chaff with unquenchable fire."

2 Peter 2:17
These are wells without water, clouds that are carried with a tempest; to whom the mist of darkness is reserved for ever.

Jude 1:13
They are wild waves of the sea, foaming up their shame; wandering stars, for whom blackest darkness has been reserved forever.

Seems to me that what your saying is that everyone one of these scriptures is wrong?

What you currently believe does not come from the bible. You can clearly see from what I have posted above, the bible says there is eternal fire.

What do you have to say about that?

 

[solarwave]

There are bible verses that speak of the finality of hell. Such as ones that say about being destroyed in hell and fearing the one who can destory your soul.

I appreciate you putting these verses up, but I am making no decision any time soon.

As for calling Jesus a lier; would it be calling Jesus a lier if all the things in His parables didn't literally happen? The use of the word fire and pain could be used to express something hard to understand.

 

[Unfit'for'swine]

Yes I do believe in hell, because >>the Bible is the truth<<

 

[christsavesmefrommyself]

Yeah I beleive in hell

 

[Dukerex]

I believe hell is a real place and I for one hope everyone rots in it!

Everyone on this pathetic planet, especially in my deluded evil generation of half-wits, deserves nothing more but eternal torture for their twisted disgusting ways. I would much rather see everyone suffer in twisted agony in the fiery pits of Sheol than see one soul enter the grace of a so called god in paradise. Paradise is for the weak and for the stupid.

I personally like to believe that the crucifixion of Jesus damned us all to eternal suffering!

I love pain, I love suffering, I love to witness anguish, I love to watch people cry out in pain and sadness. May sin, darkness, and chaos take us all!

 

[Unfit'for'swine]

I believe hell is a real place and I for one hope everyone rots in it!

Everyone on this pathetic planet, especially in my deluded evil generation of half-wits, deserves nothing more but eternal torture for their twisted disgusting ways. I would much rather see everyone suffer in twisted agony in the fiery pits of Sheol than see one soul enter the grace of a so called god in paradise. Paradise is for the weak and for the stupid.

I personally like to believe that the crucifixion of Jesus damned us all to eternal suffering!

I love pain, I love suffering, I love to witness anguish, I love to watch people cry out in pain and sadness. May sin, darkness, and chaos take us all!

You sound like a fun person

 

[DesertKid]

I love pain, I love suffering, I love to witness anguish, I love to watch people cry out in pain and sadness. May sin, darkness, and chaos take us all!

Hell is eternally searching for love, and never finding it because choices have separated you from Love; like a chasm that you have fallen into that is entirely dark, and where you will stay forever looking for Someone Who is not with you.

I hope, for your sake, that you are playing a joke... if you are not; I pray that you will find peace.

 

[solarwave]

I believe hell is a real place and I for one hope everyone rots in it!

Everyone on this pathetic planet, especially in my deluded evil generation of half-wits, deserves nothing more but eternal torture for their twisted disgusting ways. I would much rather see everyone suffer in twisted agony in the fiery pits of Sheol than see one soul enter the grace of a so called god in paradise. Paradise is for the weak and for the stupid.

I personally like to believe that the crucifixion of Jesus damned us all to eternal suffering!

I love pain, I love suffering, I love to witness anguish, I love to watch people cry out in pain and sadness. May sin, darkness, and chaos take us all!

You my friend are trolling, joking, or need help

 

[daniel777]

I believe hell is a real place and I for one hope everyone rots in it!

Everyone on this pathetic planet, especially in my deluded evil generation of half-wits, deserves nothing more but eternal torture for their twisted disgusting ways. I would much rather see everyone suffer in twisted agony in the fiery pits of Sheol than see one soul enter the grace of a so called god in paradise. Paradise is for the weak and for the stupid.

I personally like to believe that the crucifixion of Jesus damned us all to eternal suffering!

I love pain, I love suffering, I love to witness anguish, I love to watch people cry out in pain and sadness. May sin, darkness, and chaos take us all!

what a ray of sunshine you are.

if you're joking/ trolling... i like you. lol

if you're serious, then yes. paradise is definitely for those who realize their own weakness and stupidity. . . . which doesn't really make them weak or stupid.

 

[SiXe]

Short anwser would be Yes and no.

sometimes i wonder if hell is not the trial of earth.

sometimes i wish that those who commit crimes beyond compassion would go to such a place as hell had been written.

 

[solarwave]

Daniel is your picture of the march hare from alice in wonderland?