Do you overcome before or after being saved?

[Dave L]

Dave - the biblical definition of faith is that it comes by hearing the Word of Christ. This in itself is surely not sinful ??

So when the Holy Spirit is drawing an unbeliever, is this not from being presented with God's Word?

People cannot hear at a spiritual level. It cannot happen unless they are first born again.

 

[Psalm 27]

Revelation 21:
6 And He said to me, “t is done! I am the Alpha and the Omega,
the Beginning and the End. I will give of the fountain of the water of life
freely to him who thirsts.
7 He who overcomes shall inherit all things, and I will be his God
and he shall be My son.

Brilliant thread. I was delivered (by The Lord) many years after struggling with addiction, even though I was a believer

 

[Carl Emerson]

The flesh cannot hear to have faith. It has human sinful faith based on bad motives.

Hearing God comes via the ear of the human spirit, not the flesh.

 

[Mr. M]

Are you suggesting our works will not be tried by fire?

I already quoted verses that suggest otherwise, so I consider your question inattentive. What I would
like is to see you quote an occasional verse that would elaborate on your statements.

If you can overcome, you don't need salvation.

How do you overcome without Christ?

You can't.

How can sin overcome sin when attempting to overcome is also a sin? Whatever is not of faith (you cannot have apart from being saved) is sin.

Are the people who are described as being saved, yet so as through fire describing
Christians who did not overcome, or Christians who did nothing out of fear that their
"work" will be judged as an attempt to "earn salvation", so they "bury their talent".
Note "he will receive a reward".
"Whatever is not of faith"...
Can this work that pleases God and earns a reward be performed without Faith?

Please ATQ

Christians flunk the test when love does not motivate their works. Only the Holy Spirit can motivate true works.

The flesh cannot hear to have faith. It has human sinful faith based on bad motives.

Could you sum this up, with a Bible verse or two.

 

[Dave L]

I already quoted verses that suggest otherwise, so I consider your question inattentive. What I would
like is to see you quote an occasional verse that would elaborate on your statements.





Please ATQ


Could you sum this up, with a Bible verse or two.

If you are a minister, you should have been taught these things.

 

[Carl Emerson]

People cannot hear at a spiritual level. It cannot happen unless they are first born again.

If that were true the Holy Spirit could not draw anyone to Jesus or convict the world of sin, righteousness and judgement.

 

[Dave L]

Hearing God comes via the ear of the human spirit, not the flesh.

Why did God cause the Jews not to hear when hearing?

 

[Mr. M]

Brilliant thread. I was delivered (by The Lord) many years after struggling with addiction, even though I was a believer

Just between you and me, everyone is struggling with an addiction. The more powerful ones of Satan
merely serve as a cover who find theirs more socially accommodating.

 

[Dave L]

If that were true the Holy Spirit could not draw anyone to Jesus or convict the world of sin, righteousness and judgement.

Unless Jesus paid for their sins on the cross, he doesn't draw anyone for salvation.

 

[Carl Emerson]

Why did God cause the Jews not to hear when hearing?

Why do you change the subject when presented with a biblical challenge to your position?

 

[Dave L]

Why do you change the subject when presented with a biblical challenge to your position?

You said the flesh can hear spiritual truth. It cannot.

 

[Mr. M]

If you are a minister, you should have been taught these things.

Because I am a minister, I easily discern when someone is talking without any scriptural basis
whatsoever. You have made my point for me. Maybe you can convince Carl that you know what
you are talking about, you and I are finished for the day, Mr. L.

 

[Mr. M]

Why did God cause the Jews not to hear when hearing?

Romans 11 explains this is detail. I assume you knew the answer, since you proposed the question,
which is to say that you have made no point relevant to the topic.

 

[Dave L]

Romans 11 explains this is detail. I assume you knew the answer, since you proposed the question,
which is to say that you have made no point relevant to the topic.

I'm trying to correct CE's misunderstanding as far as that topic goes.

 

[Carl Emerson]

Unless Jesus paid for their sins on the cross, he doesn't draw anyone for salvation.

You keep deflecting points made that challenge your position and raise another topic..

 

[Dave L]

You keep deflecting points made that challenge your position and raise another topic..

You said the Holy Spirit draws people without showing the extent.

 

[Carl Emerson]

Romans:1 19-21 clearly states the lost know God and are judged for not honouring Him.

 

[Carl Emerson]

The Holy Spirit convicts the WORLD of sin, righteousness and judgement.

 

[Dave L]

Romans:1 19-21 clearly states the lost know God and are judged for not honouring Him.

“Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them. For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse: Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.” Romans 1:19–21 (KJV 1900)

 

[Dave L]

The Holy Spirit convicts the WORLD of sin, righteousness and judgement.

All know how they want to be treated but none treat others in that way.