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Featured Do you overcome before or after being saved?

Discussion in 'Controversial Christian Theology' started by Minister Monardo, Nov 13, 2020.

  1. Minister Monardo

    Minister Monardo Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Revelation 21:
    6
    And He said to me, “t is done! I am the Alpha and the Omega,
    the Beginning and the End. I will give of the fountain of the water of life
    freely to him who thirsts.
    7 He who overcomes shall inherit all things
    , and I will be his God
    and he shall be My son.
     
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  2. Dave L

    Dave L Well-Known Member Supporter

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    If you can overcome, you don't need salvation.
     
  3. Minister Monardo

    Minister Monardo Well-Known Member Supporter

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    How do you overcome without Christ?
     
  4. Dave L

    Dave L Well-Known Member Supporter

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    You can't.
     
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  5. Minister Monardo

    Minister Monardo Well-Known Member Supporter

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    So then the answer to the question
    Do you overcome before or after being saved?
    Cannot be:
     
  6. Dave L

    Dave L Well-Known Member Supporter

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    How can sin overcome sin when attempting to overcome is also a sin? Whatever is not of faith (you cannot have apart from being saved) is sin.
     
  7. Halbhh

    Halbhh Everything You say is Life to me Supporter

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    Through Him we can.

    Matthew 19:25 When the disciples heard this, they were greatly astonished and asked, "Who then can be saved?"
    Matthew 19:26 Jesus looked at them and said, "With man this is impossible, but with God all things are possible."
     
  8. Minister Monardo

    Minister Monardo Well-Known Member Supporter

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    1 Corinthians 3:
    14 If anyone’s work
    which he has built on endures, he will receive a reward.
    15 If anyone’s work is burned, he will suffer loss; but he himself will be saved,
    yet so as through fire.

    Are the people who are described as being saved, yet so as through fire describing
    Christians who did not overcome, or Christians who did nothing out of fear that their
    "work" will be judged as an attempt to "earn salvation", so they "bury their talent".
    Note "he will receive a reward".
    "Whatever is not of faith"...
    Can this work that pleases God and earns a reward be performed without Faith?

    Revelation 2:19. I know your works, love, service, faith, and your patience; and
    as for your works, the last are more than the first.
     
  9. Carl Emerson

    Carl Emerson Well-Known Member

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    After being saved, because before that, there is no seat of authority within you to sustain redemption.
     
  10. Minister Monardo

    Minister Monardo Well-Known Member Supporter

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  11. Carl Emerson

    Carl Emerson Well-Known Member

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    Yes, I just opened a thread on judgement in Matt 24 which focuses on what we do and fail to do.
     
  12. Dave L

    Dave L Well-Known Member Supporter

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    The flesh has sinful "faith" that cannot repent or believe truthfully. Only the Holy Spirit faith can save.
     
  13. Minister Monardo

    Minister Monardo Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Which "anyone" are you saying had sinful faith, V 14, or V15?
     
  14. Carl Emerson

    Carl Emerson Well-Known Member

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    Dave - the biblical definition of faith is that it comes by hearing the Word of Christ. This in itself is surely not sinful ??

    So when the Holy Spirit is drawing an unbeliever, is this not from being presented with God's Word?
     
  15. Dave L

    Dave L Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Christians flunk the test when love does not motivate their works. Only the Holy Spirit can motivate true works.
     
  16. Dave L

    Dave L Well-Known Member Supporter

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    The flesh cannot hear to have faith. It has human sinful faith based on bad motives.
     
  17. Carl Emerson

    Carl Emerson Well-Known Member

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    These verses in 1 Cor 3: both refer to the saved...
     
  18. Minister Monardo

    Minister Monardo Well-Known Member Supporter

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    So someone who comes to saving faith by believing the gospel should be made aware that there
    will be a test.
     
  19. Dave L

    Dave L Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Are you suggesting our works will not be tried by fire?
     
  20. Dave L

    Dave L Well-Known Member Supporter

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    It refers to the Apostles' work.
     
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