do you have to be 100% certain on the trinity to be saved?

[Amongst the Flock]

Yes, all three are one and have their essential part in linking us to them.

John 3:16-17
God the Father so loved the world that he sent us Jesus as a sin offering to die for our sins and to be our redeemer. He bought us with the price of his blood and reconciled us with Father God. In order to have a good relationship with Jesus we have to be sanctified with him or give him our full obedience. God did not send his son to condemn the world but to save the world through him.

John 3:5

No man can enter the kingdom of God unless he is born again of water and spirit.

Jesus is our Lord and Savior and no man can enter into heaven except through Jesus. We all fell short of the glory of Father God because of our sinful nature but the death of Jesus on the cross and his resurrection restored our relationship with Father God.

Acts 4:12 Salvation is found in no one else. There is no other name under heaven which is given to men by which we must be saved.

When we come to salvation our hearts our circumcised with Jesus spirit by the Holy Spirit. We can not ask for salvation ourselves. The Holy Spirit does it for us. We cannot pray, interpret the bible and apply its truths to our lives without the help of the Holy Spirit. He intercedes for us with Jesus just as Jesus intercedes with the Father for us. Also the Holiness of Father God and Jesus would kill us so the Holy Spirit filters it into "spiritual milk" for us to feed on. It is our spiritual mana from heaven, the word of God that grows our spirit. We need to feed every day if we want to grow in Christ.

Romans 8:26-27 In the same way the Spirit helps us in our weakness. We do not know what we ought to pray for, but the Spirit himself intercedes for us with groans that words cannot express. 27 And he who searches our hearts knows the mind of the Spirit, because the Spirit intercedes for the Saints in accordance with God's will.

When we need to pray the Holy Spirit prays with us and for us. Since God helps us pray we don't have to be afraid to come before him and we can ask the Holy Spirit to intercede for us in accordance with God's Good, Pleasing, Perfect will. Then we can trust that Father God will always do what is best and lead us in the right direction.

So in closing we need all three parts of the Holy Trinity to make it to heaven.

Love, Joy, and Peace to all.

 

[seebs]

We need all three, but we don't need to know about them.

God does not condemn brain-damaged people to Hell for being too stupid to understand doctrine. Doctrine is not necessary to salvation; faith is.

 

[aReformedPatriot]

We need all three, but we don't need to know about them.

Well, I'd say there has be to at least some level of understanding. You say have faith? Have faith in what? Christ. Well, there needs to be some level of understanding and knowing about Jesus. This is why we are commanded to go out into the world, so we can teach this to people (MT 28:18-20)

 

[McDLT]

I have an interesting way of understanding the trinity. God is 3 persons (Father, Son, Spirit) but 1 (God).

Water is 3 but 1. Water can be a liquid (you drink, swim, bathe, etc. in it), a gas (steam), and a solid (ice).

Another aspect: If you take a cup from the ocean, the ocean is still there and you also, in your cup, have the ocean. Same ocean just in different places.

Just thought I'd share. I also voted no because I don't think you have to be educated to know what love is and means.

 

[Andyman_1970]

I have an interesting way of understanding the trinity. God is 3 persons (Father, Son, Spirit) but 1 (God).

Water is 3 but 1. Water can be a liquid (you drink, swim, bathe, etc. in it), a gas (steam), and a solid (ice).

Although the water analogy is interesting however it verges on modalism.

Personally I don't think anyone can explain the Trinity without violating Deut. 6 - I'm cool with that, it the mystery of God and I celebrate His mystery I don't need to have the idea that He is three and yet echad (one) settled to know Him and love Him.

 

[SonOfThunder]

I have an interesting way of understanding the trinity. God is 3 persons (Father, Son, Spirit) but 1 (God).

Water is 3 but 1. Water can be a liquid (you drink, swim, bathe, etc. in it), a gas (steam), and a solid (ice).

Although the water analogy is interesting however it verges on modalism.

Personally I don't think anyone can explain the Trinity without violating Deut. 6 - I'm cool with that, it the mystery of God and I celebrate His mystery I don't need to have the idea that He is three and yet echad (one) settled to know Him and love Him

How can we say that YHWH is one undivided being, yet that in this one being there are three persons?



Are the persons real? they are not just different ways of looking at the one being of God



The concept of the trinity is far removed from our human experience, where every different human ‘person’ is a different being as well. The trinity speaks somehow of God’s being so much greater than ours, that within this one undivided being there can be an unfolding into interpersonal relationships, so that there can be three distinct persons.



This tri-personal form of being is beyond my ability to comprehend. Far different from anything we (man) have experienced, and far different from anything else in the universe.



Simplifying the doctrine in order to understand it leads to questions. By looking into what the Bible teaches, how the relationships fit together is the only way we can possibly come to any conclusions. The Bible does seemingly say believe in a contradiction i.e. ‘God is three persons’ and ‘there is one God’.



Having said that, it remains a mystery – a paradox and interests me. Will I fully understand? It seems unintelligible in its essential nature.



Many varied illustrations have been suggested to indicate something of the nature of the trinity from three-leaf clover to laws of chemistry. While human and natural analogies may legitimately be employed to enforce and illustrate divine truth, no single finite illustration can ever adequately express God.

It is noteworthy that our Lord should have taught us to call these three “persons” in the GODHEAD by such homely titles as Father, Son & Holy Spirit. Our finite minds need as clear a grasp as possible of the relationship which each of these divine ‘principals’ or ‘agents’ bears to the others and to our redemption.



There also seems ‘no word’ which can adequately take the place of ‘person’ in these various connections.



Is 55:8 For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the LORD.



1Cor 2:11- For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God



Mans own Spirit knows man. As does The Spirit of God know God.


James

 

[tqpix]

Faith and obedience to Jesus Christ is the only way to salvation.

 

[aReformedPatriot]

Simplifying the doctrine in order to understand it leads to questions. By looking into what the Bible teaches, how the relationships fit together is the only way we can possibly come to any conclusions. The Bible does seemingly say believe in a contradiction i.e. ‘God is three persons’ and ‘there is one God’.



Having said that, it remains a mystery – a paradox and interests me. Will I fully understand? It seems unintelligible in its essential nature.

Good Post, all of it. I don't think its a contradiction though but one can reasonably see what its said to be there. I dont think I will ever comprehend it.

Peace
Mark

 

[Simon_Templar]

of all the doctrines the one that the first church most absolutely without exception demanded adherence to was any doctrine which touched on the nature of the Godhead (including in that Father, Son, and Holy Spirit).

There was pretty much 0 tolerance for differing views on the trinity. Also, almost every major heresy opposed by the early church dealt with beliefs that changed the nature of some part of the Godhead (often Jesus).

I should clarify that its not necessary to understand the trinity, intellectual understanding is not a necessity in any part of christianity at all. You don't have to understand, you just have to believe.

 

[Iollain]

Jhn 2:19 Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.

...........Jesus says 'I will' raise it up (His body)




Rom 8:9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

..............here we see the Trintiy, 'Spirit of God, Spirit of Christ' (form of the Holy Spirit)


Rom 8:10 And if Christ [be] in you, the body [is] dead because of sin; but the Spirit [is] life because of righteousness.

............notice here, 'if Christ be in you' (this verse 'Christ' is the Holy Spirit, of course)


Rom 8:11 But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.


...........the 'Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you' (Holy Spirit again) but then notice again......

Jhn 2:19 Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.

...........Jesus said 'I will raise it up'


Here in these few verses we see the Trinity of the One God.






1Jo 4:12 No man hath seen God at any time. If we love one another, God dwelleth in us, and his love is perfected in us.


1Jo 4:13 Hereby know we that we dwell in him, and he in us, because he hath given us of his Spirit.


1Jo 4:14 And we have seen and do testify that the Father sent the Son [to be] the Saviour of the world.


1Jo 4:15 Whosoever shall confess that Jesus is the Son of God, God dwelleth in him, and he in God.


1Jo 4:16 And we have known and believed the love that God hath to us. God is love; and he that dwelleth in love dwelleth in God, and God in him


.............notice here that 'no man has seen God', but people have seen Jesus who is God in flesh

 

[ZiSunka]

I have an interesting way of understanding the trinity. God is 3 persons (Father, Son, Spirit) but 1 (God).

Water is 3 but 1. Water can be a liquid (you drink, swim, bathe, etc. in it), a gas (steam), and a solid (ice).

But it can't be all three at once. God IS all three at the same time.

 

[Iollain]

Phl 2:6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:


Phl 2:7 But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:


Phl 2:8 And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.

........another look at the Trinity heree

 

[SonOfThunder]

Is Modulism bad to believe?

Modulism = One God who simply reveals Himself through three different modes, or roles.



Phil 2:5-8 V7-Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus: Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God: But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men: And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.



Jesus emptied Himself



Col 2:9-For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily



Jesus had the…fullness of Deity



Heb 2:2-For if the word spoken by angels was stedfast, and every transgression and disobedience received a just recompence of reward;



Jesus was ….made for a while lower than the angels



John 8 Jesus is speaking to the Pharisees-

8:15-Ye judge after the flesh; I judge no man.



8:16-18-And yet if I judge, my judgment is true: for I am not alone, but I and the Father that sent me. It is also written in your law, that the testimony of two men is true. I am one that bear witness of myself, and the Father that sent me beareth witness of me.



speaks of the law and power of the testimony of 2 and how Jesus bears witness of Himself and the Father bears witness of Jesus



8:28- 29-Then said Jesus unto them, When ye have lifted up the Son of man, then shall ye know that I am he, and that I do nothing of myself; but as my Father hath taught me, I speak these things. And he that sent me is with me: the Father hath not left me alone; for I do always those things that please him.

8:31-Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed;

8:51-Verily, verily, I say unto you, If a man keep my saying, he shall never see death.



Jesus is speaking to the Jews here…..“If anyone keeps My Word, he shall never see death.



8:53-Art thou greater than our father Abraham, which is dead? and the prophets are dead: whom makest thou thyself?

8:54-Jesus answered, If I honour myself, my honour is nothing: it is my Father that honoureth me; of whom ye say, that he is your God:



Jesus replies – If I honour Myself, My honour is nothing



8:58-Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.



These Scriptures are important as right after V58 these Jews took up stones to throw at Jesus



8:59-Then took they up stones to cast at him: but Jesus hid himself, and went out of the temple, going through the midst of them, and so passed by.



Jesus demonstrates both a total reliance and unity with the Father and declares HIS WORD V 31 &32 will make you free if you believe it.



The Jews were shocked at the claims of Jesus. To them it was blasphemy



John 10:33-The Jews answered him, saying, For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God.

John 10:30 “I and My Father are One”.



John 10:38-But if I do, though ye believe not me, believe the works: that ye may know, and believe, that the Father is in me, and I in him.

the Father is in Me, and I in Him.



John 1:2-The same was in the beginning with God.



Jesus was in the beginning with Jehovah God



John 1:3-All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made



Creation is through Jesus; our path to salvation is through Jesus. Without Jesus we have no way to the Father.



Col 1:16-For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:



Jesus will again show Himself to His own and ALL will know from where he came and who He is. Mind Blowing thought. Please pray for me as I grapple with this.

James

 

[Iollain]

Jesus will again show Himself to His own and ALL will know from where he came and who He is. Mind Blowing thought. Please pray for me as I grapple with this.

James
[/i][/b]

I need prayer to grapple this too.

 

[Iollain]

Is Modulism bad to believe?

Modulism = One God who simply reveals Himself through three different modes, or roles.

This is true, One God who is a Trinity.

Jhn 14:16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Jhn 14:26 But the Comforter, [which is] the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Jhn 15:26 But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, [even] the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Jhn 16:7 Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you.

 

[12volt_man]

This poll is for me to review the general opinion of all who responds.

thankyou for taking the time to answer

No. We're not saved by propositions, but what we believe about the Trinity helps to determine which Jesus we're going to follow.

 

[McDLT]

What I originally posted:

I have an interesting way of understanding the trinity. God is 3 persons (Father, Son, Spirit) but 1 (God).

Water is 3 but 1. Water can be a liquid (you drink, swim, bathe, etc. in it), a gas (steam), and a solid (ice).

But it can't be all three at once. God IS all three at the same time.

Yes water can! That's what makes it such a good example. At 0 C (32 F) Water can be a stable liquid, solid (ice not melting), gas (not condensing). Just a little bit of science.

 

[Iollain]

No. We're not saved by propositions, but what we believe about the Trinity helps to determine which Jesus we're going to follow.

Amen!

 

[Crazy Liz]

I voted not sure. Salvation is dependant of what you believe about Jesus. If you don't believe He is the sone of God, God made flesh, I'm not sure if you're really believing in the real Jesus at all. Can someone believe that Jesus is a mere man and still be saved by His blood? I don't know for sure. It could be equal to believing a false Christ.

I don't think salvation is dependent on our opinions about anything.

 

[Crazy Liz]

No. We're not saved by propositions, but what we believe about the Trinity helps to determine which Jesus we're going to follow.

Which Jesus?

Is there more than one?