Do you believe in Hell and why?/why not?

[Lindas Place]

I believe hell is eternal life in hell… and just as horrifying as God warns us it is. Although I do wonder if the biblical descriptions are metaphoric… for instance, the descriptions of “darkness and fire” as we know darkness and fire cannot dwell in the same place… however, the bible use darkness and fire to describe other things as well, even concerning believers as in… Corinthians 3 13-15. I believe the darkness and fire of hell will be much worst than a literal fire or literal darkness… and there is absolutely no reason for any person to ignore God’s warning and experience hell for themselves…. Just believe God, He loves us and would not warn us if wasn’t bad.

his work will be shown for what it is, because the Day will bring it to light. It will be revealed with fire, and the fire will test the quality of each man's work. If what he has built survives, he will receive his reward. If it is burned up, he will suffer loss; HE HIMSELF WILL BE SAVED, but only as one escaping through the flames. 1 Corinthians 3 13-15

 

[Sadalmelik]

Jeremiah Prays for Understanding

16 “After I had given the deed of purchase to Baruch the son of Neriah, I prayed to the LORD, saying: 17 ‘Ah, Lord GOD! It is you who have made the heavens and the earth by your great power and by your outstretched arm! Nothing is too hard for you. 18 You show steadfast love to thousands, but you repay the guilt of fathers to their children after them, O great and mighty God, whose name is the LORD of hosts, 19 great in counsel and mighty in deed, whose eyes are open to all the ways of the children of man, rewarding each one according to his ways and according to the fruit of his deeds. 20 You have shown signs and wonders in the land of Egypt, and to this day in Israel and among all mankind, and have made a name for yourself, as at this day. 21 You brought your people Israel out of the land of Egypt with signs and wonders, with a strong hand and outstretched arm, and with great terror. 22 And you gave them this land, which you swore to their fathers to give them, a land flowing with milk and honey. 23 And they entered and took possession of it. But they did not obey your voice or walk in your law. They did nothing of all you commanded them to do. Therefore you have made all this disaster come upon them. 24 Behold, the siege mounds have come up to the city to take it, and because of sword and famine and pestilence the city is given into the hands of the Chaldeans who are fighting against it. What you spoke has come to pass, and behold, you see it. 25 Yet you, O Lord GOD, have said to me, “Buy the field for money and get witnesses”—though the city is given into the hands of the Chaldeans.’”
26 The word of the LORD came to Jeremiah: 27 “Behold, I am the LORD, the God of all flesh. Is anything too hard for me? 28 Therefore, thus says the LORD: Behold, I am giving this city into the hands of the Chaldeans and into the hand of Nebuchadnezzar king of Babylon, and he shall capture it. 29 The Chaldeans who are fighting against this city shall come and set this city on fire and burn it, with the houses on whose roofs offerings have been made to Baal and drink offerings have been poured out to other gods, to provoke me to anger. 30 For the children of Israel and the children of Judah have done nothing but evil in my sight from their youth. The children of Israel have done nothing but provoke me to anger by the work of their hands, declares the LORD. 31 This city has aroused my anger and wrath, from the day it was built to this day, so that I will remove it from my sight 32 because of all the evil of the children of Israel and the children of Judah that they did to provoke me to anger—their kings and their officials, their priests and their prophets, the men of Judah and the inhabitants of Jerusalem. 33 They have turned to me their back and not their face. And though I have taught them persistently, they have not listened to receive instruction. 34 They set up their abominations in the house that is called by my name, to defile it. 35 They built the high places of Baal in the Valley of the Son of Hinnom, to offer up their sons and daughters to Molech, though I did not command them, nor did it enter into my mind, that they should do this abomination, to cause Judah to sin.




sorry so long, i wanted to give it in context, would you mind explaining verse 35 to me.....cause i read this as God finding it to be an abomination regarding what went on there.....yall do know what happened there dont you ?

The Valley of the Sons of Hinnom is no ordinary valley; it was notorious in ancient Israel on account of the events that transpired there. It is in the Valley of the Sons of Hinnom where an altar was built to Baal and to Molech, and where kings passed their children through the fire as an offering to Molech (2 Chronicles 28:3, 2 Chronicles 33:6, Jeremiah 7:31–32; 19:6; 32:35). The area of the altar was named Topheth, apparently because of the drums played to drown out the cries of the children as they were being sacrificed to the idol. Thus Israel defiled the land, and despite the fact that Josiah destroyed Topheth and ended the practice (2 Kings 23:10), the land was considered defiled. (standing-alone.com,,,,by ethan r longhenry)


so anyway, ya, thats where they used to sacrifice kids to their supposed gods....and they did this thru burning them alive.......
thus the contradiction, that i just cant seem to wrap my head around...if God was so sickened by this action, that of burning human flesh alive..which He clearly was, for HE says it was an abomination, then how is it this same God would then find it acceptible for an eternal fire with people burning allive in it forever....with no end and no escape...seems kind of like a contradiction to me....at least the children sacrificed died within a few seconds....in 'hell" you dont get that luxury, i guess....


anyway, yall can choose to ignore it or not, its in the bible, and with trying to align it with your view, is clearly a contradiction....

 

[Sadalmelik]

whisper of hope, sorry it took me a while to realize who you were, you forgot to tell me who you used to be....anyway, ,i would like to send you a pm, if you could please allow it to go thru, so that i dont have to post my response in open forum, for i dont know of any other way to contact you....let me know...ok....thanks and God bless.

 

[Zaac]

I am about to engage in some serious studying.

First subject: Hell.

The conventional idea of Hell is a place of eternal punishment for those who don't accept Jesus.
This is something that I find hard to accept.

First, hello.

Second, why are you studying hell if you're not going to accept what the word of God says it is? You've already set out with this idea that because you cannot accept the "conventional", you're going to study and reinforce what you already believe.

That's like saying "I'm an atheist. I'm going to read the Bible to further convince myself why I'm right for being an atheist".

You don't study deeper to disprove God's word. If that is your intent, you're off track before you even get started.

I'm interested in people's opinions and texts from the Bible...or suggestions on what I should study

This is part of the problem. People want to listen too much to other people's opinions but will not accept the sound teaching that has come from those who have "conventionally" taught the very same thing that Christ taught.

This thread is bound to be a mess.

 

[Zaac]

why do you and others only hold to the view that somehow punishment HAS TO MEAN an ongoing thing, that will never end....

People hold to the view that what takes place in the lake of fire is eternal because God says so.

One might ask what it is that make so many dead set to go against what God says?

if my son misbehaves and i tell him he will have to accept the punishment, which the punishment would be he is grounded for the day, would my son assume his punishment, would mean that he was grounded for the rest of his life?

Man is not God and and man does not righteously mete out punishment for eternally unforgiven sin. Thus the example is irrelevant.

 

[dollarsbill]

I don't understand the part where people say that death is eternal life being tortured in hell.

Those who are already spiritually dead, (1 Timothy 5:6 But she who gives herself to wanton pleasure is dead even while she lives.) will experience 'the second death', the final death. They will still be dead and still be alive.

Revelation 21:8
8 "But for the cowardly and unbelieving and abominable and murderers and immoral persons and sorcerers and idolaters and all liars, their part will be in the lake that burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death."

 

[Kepha]

Surely you can check a book out of the library all by yourself.

Here's another hint. There were a lot of fanciful ideas about the underworld in the middle ages, they built on one another and became more and more outlandish. Dante put some of these into Inferno. The current idea of hell is from Dante, not the Bible.

According to the Bible, the wages of sin is death not eternal torment.

I'm interested in knowing that as well. Can such a claim be backed up with actual facts and not just personal opinion?

I'm more interested in why some of your sS Brethren around here believe it's purely Biblical where as you both do not. The fact is, one side is being mislead and one isn't yet both have the Holy Spirit guiding you and both believe you have the right to teach the faithful your doctrines even if derived from Heresy. Now what?

 

[Timothew]

Those who are already spiritually dead, (1 Timothy 5:6 But she who gives herself to wanton pleasure is dead even while she lives.) will experience 'the second death', the final death. They will still be dead and still be alive.

This is tenuous. The certainty of her death is shown here. She is not a living-dead zombie. This verse can't be taken out of it's context and transferred over and used to insist that dead people are actually alive and God is torturing them. That seems like quite a stretch.

The language of the bible is plain and clear. Those who reject God will ultimately be destroyed. "Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life, but whoever rejects the Son will not see life, for God’s wrath remains on him"
God's wrath results in the destruction of anyone who experiences it. Paul says "These pay the penalty of eternal destruction." Destruction is not eternal living torture, destruction means to be brought to an end, to perish.
Jesus told the people, "unless you repent you will likewise perish." If it were Jesus' plan to torture those who do not repent, why didn't he ever say this? Over and over He warns of the coming death and destruction, but he never says "I'm going to torture those who reject me." He said "wide is the way that leads to destruction (not torture), but narrow is the way that leads to life. (The opposite of death and destruction)

This message is clear and it is shown throughout the bible.

As Zaac has said "One might ask what it is that make so many dead set to go against what God says?" Of course, Zaac thinks that God says that he will torture anyone who rejects Jesus, but that's not what Jesus said. Jesus said "unless you repent, you will likewise perish." Perish means to die, perish does not mean to never die but suffer eternal torture instead of dying. Why are so many dead set to go against what God says? I don't have an answer to this.

 

[Timothew]

I'm more interested in why some of your sS Brethren around here believe it's purely Biblical where as you both do not. The fact is, one side is being mislead and one isn't yet both have the Holy Spirit guiding you and both believe you have the right to teach the faithful your doctrines even if derived from Heresy. Now what?

Of course it is your personal opinion that this is heresy. Now what?
I believe it is heretical to claim that God will torture millions of people for billions of years, without end. Now what?

Perhaps we could examine the scriptures which plainly state that the wages of sin is death, NOT eternal torture. Now what?

Or you could stubbornly cling to your doctrine even if it is derived from heresy. Feels good to be called a heretic doesn't it? Perhaps you should treat others as you wish to be treated.

 

[Kepha]

Of course it is your personal opinion that this is heresy. Now what?

No, it's some of your sS Brethren's opinion as well, unless they think the truths from the Holy Spirit are unimportant. Some in another thread equate a 66 Book Written Word of God to that of Christ so it must be yes?

I believe it is heretical to claim that God will torture millions of people for billions of years, without end. Now what?

Now what? Why I would then go to my Church. You however have a problem amongst yourselves.

Perhaps we could examine the scriptures which plainly state that the wages of sin is death, NOT eternal torture. Now what?

Hey, leave me out of this since you know as well as I do, you won't be convincing me of your truths. However, why not examine them with your sS Brethren instead since you both follow the same rules of conduct in how to search for the Truths of God. Cause if you then decide to preach error on a forum, then wouldn't God desire you to be absolutely correct before spreading it to the rest of His Flock?

Or you could stubbornly cling to your doctrine even if it is derived from heresy. Feels good to be called a heretic doesn't it? Perhaps you should treat others as you wish to be treated.

Being called a heretic from a self proclaimed pope doesn't the least bit bother me. But the facts are, one of your sides are preaching Heresy. Perhaps just roll the dice eh.

 

[Timothew]

Being called a heretic from a self proclaimed pope doesn't the least bit bother me. But the facts are, one of your sides are preaching Heresy. Perhaps just roll the dice eh.

You know, you are correct. And it shouldn't bother me at all to be called a heretic from YOUR self proclaimed pope. But actually it does bother me to see you acting this way. But on the bright side, we don't need to just roll the dice, as you wish to do. We have the letters from the apostles and we can examine them to determine what is apostolic and what is heretical. We don't need your self proclaimed pope for anything at all. Also, if you need help examining the apostolic letters, let me know, I can read them in the language they were written in.

By the way, What is sS Brethren? I'm not part of your fringe group so I don't know all of the inside lingo from inside your little temple.

 

[Sadalmelik]

who is it that ignores scripture and twists it to support their view? yall have been given plenty of scripture that completely refute your idea of eternal hellfire,,,yet you just ignore them and pretend like they arent there....no one even commented on my post 124, showing God thinking it an abomination of the act of burning people alive....those arent my words, they are Gods....the reason you dont respond time after time when evidence is directly pointed out to you that directly contradicts your doctrine of hell, is because your stubborn and unwilling to accept the truth.

the only thing you consistently stick with is falling back on is that since everone prev to me has thought it, then they must be right. that is a poor defense, and shows, imo, the inability to actually think for oneself....whether that comes from laziness, in not wanting to spend time to research and learn for oneself, or whether it comes from the old 'safety in numbers' mentality, i dont know...either way, its a weak arguement, and doesnt impress upon me that your knowledge of such is any more correct than mine.

 

[dollarsbill]

....the reason you dont respond time after time when evidence is directly pointed out to you that directly contradicts your doctrine of hell, is because your stubborn and unwilling to accept the truth.

It is you who didn't respond to the Scriptures about Hell and eternal punishment in the fire throughout the NT.

Revelation 20:10
10 The devil, who deceived them, was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone where the beast and the false prophet are. And they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.

 

[Mikecpking]

It is you who didn't respond to the Scriptures about Hell and eternal punishment in the fire throughout the NT.

Revelation 20:10
10 The devil, who deceived them, was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone where the beast and the false prophet are. And they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.

What do you make of this verse if you are saying the lake of fire is hell? Hell cannot be thrown into itself?

Revelation 20:14
And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.

 

[dollarsbill]

What do you make of this verse if you are saying the lake of fire is hell? Hell cannot be thrown into itself?

Revelation 20:14
And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.

Actually the OP is kind of vague. It doesn't mention eternal or fire. Perhaps I wrongly assumed 'Hell' meant eternity in the fire.

 

[Timothew]

Actually the OP is kind of vague. It doesn't mention eternal or fire. Perhaps I wrongly assumed 'Hell' meant eternity in the fire.

Halleluyah! The blind see! The lame walk! The deaf hear! Praise God!

 

[Sadalmelik]

It is you who didn't respond to the Scriptures about Hell and eternal punishment in the fire throughout the NT.

Revelation 20:10
10 The devil, who deceived them, was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone where the beast and the false prophet are. And they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.

please do a service to yourself and study the original texts instead of just taking mans word for this stuff....forever and ever only means a period of time....it does not always mean "forever" like we in the west always assumes it means.....your being caught up on a couple words that you dont truly understand their biblical meaning....it is not always safe to assume words mean what you think them to mean.

there are many instances in the bible, where the same words are used....forever, for ever and ever, that obviously are no more and can be proven to have ended....why do you accept mans word for interpretation?

 

[dollarsbill]

Halleluyah! The blind see! The lame walk! The deaf hear! Praise God!

I merely said the OP was vague. I didn't say Hell fire isn't eternal.

 

[Timothew]

I merely said the OP was vague. I didn't say Hell fire isn't eternal.

Now I'm sad again. I was praying for a miracle.

 

[dollarsbill]

please do a service to yourself and study the original texts instead of just taking mans word for this stuff....forever and ever only means a period of time....it does not always mean "forever" like we in the west always assumes it means.....your being caught up on a couple words that you dont truly understand their biblical meaning....it is not always safe to assume words mean what you think them to mean.

there are many instances in the bible, where the same words are used....forever, for ever and ever, that obviously are no more and can be proven to have ended....why do you accept mans word for interpretation?

You won't find very many English translations that agree with you. Most totally disagree with you.