Do you believe in Hell and why?/why not?

[Sadalmelik]

You seem very confused. If someone is destroyed, they are not being rewarded.

Did the Navy Seals "reward" Osama Bin Laden by shooting him in the head?

i was going to adress this, but you beat me to it......being destroyed is now considered a reward.......good one

 

[Whisper of Hope]

Romans 6:23 The wages of sin is death. Which part of this do you not understand?

I can't speak for him, but for me, it is your personal interpretation of what the bible teaches on hell that I disagree with. I simply don't believe that annihilation is scriptural, and I have explained before (in an older thread in another forum) why I don't believe it is.

 

[Sadalmelik]

He said to FEAR. There would be no need to fear if it would destroy. The wicked will certainly wish they were destroyed.

The words eternal, unquenchable, everlasting and forever are used for the punishment in the fire in the NT. Does eternal life end?

you are totally twisting this some way i dont even understand,,,,,the words spoken by Jesus are words for us now, not for us only to consider at judgement, by THEN IT IS TOO LATE, so what are you even talking about....of course we wouldnt fear it then, because we would already realize our fate, and whether we had fear at that point or not, would be irrelevant.....the fear He is talking about is knowing now, that we are to fear Him that can kill both body and soul in the afterlife.....so i have no idea what your even talking about..

it is my assumption you have no good answer for the point i brought up, so you must just think that God just likes to threaten us with saying things, and that He doesnt back up what He says.....unbelievable

 

[Sadalmelik]

dollarsbill, so you also must not fear being destroyed, r u the same one that said destroyed/destruction is considered by you to be a reward?


God doesnt make threats, He gives us warnings, there is a difference, and ill take Him at his warning, i wish not to be destroyed at judgement and instead wish to obtain eternal life, as promised to those who believe...eternal life is not promised anywhere in the bible to the unsaved....you may think verses that you interpret say this, but that would be a misinterpretation, because the bible no where says this. ive looked, it isnt there.

 

[Ishraqiyun]

That is NOT debateable. There are many existing books from 2nd-Temple Judaism which refer to hell in garrishly horrifying detail. One question is, if 2nd-Temple Judaism was opposed to the concept of eternal suffering in the flames of hell, why would so many Jewish writers endorse the idea?

Do you think this later evolution of their concept of the afterlife may have been influenced by Zoroastrian and Persian thought? I've seen a few scholars make that connection.

 

[Ishraqiyun]

If by destruction one means ceasing to exist I don't see that as a punishment at all. Who is there to to dislike the punishment after it's given ? Who is there to feel the punishment? No one. No self no worries. Worries come along when there is a you.

 

[dollarsbill]

Romans 6:23 The wages of sin is death. Which part of this do you not understand?

I could ask you the same.

 

[PaladinValer]

The wages of sin is death.

Spiritual death, not biological death.

Any tradition that denies this defies "Holy Writ".

No; they deny your unorthodox position.

If you say the result of sin is to be burned alive forever in hell when you are dead, then you are defying "Holy Writ" with your traditions.

Did you even read my posts in this thread? Please, quote me where I suggest burning alive forever? A retraction of this would be appreciated.

I don't care that christians have historically accepted hell.

You should.

What matters is the truth and what the bible says. People have historically acceopted that the earth is flat, that doesn't make it true.

Truth isn't personal; it is universal and eternal. What is true then doesn't cease to be true later.

And actually, the idea that Christianity believed in a flat earth is psuedohistory.

It may be just my ignorance but I don't know of any Christians -from the NT and throughout histroy - who have hoped to be with Abraham when they die.

Um...read the Church Fathers?

Our hope is to be with Christ. The place also tends be to be different, we don't talk about going to hades or sheol - with Christ would imply in heaven!

No...

The idea of zipping right off to heaven or hell is a direct contradiction of the Nicene Creed.

Of course we then think the whole aim is to go to heaven when we die and forget about the whole resurrection thing...

Which is why the Church has always believed in an afterlife existence of particular judgment. Sheol or hades is its name and can be found in the OT and NT.

 

[Sadalmelik]

If by destruction one means ceasing to exist I don't see that as a punishment at all. Who is there to to dislike the punishment after it's given ? Who is there to feel the punishment? No one. No self no worries. Worries come along when there is a you.

why do you and others only hold to the view that somehow punishment HAS TO MEAN an ongoing thing, that will never end....

if my son misbehaves and i tell him he will have to accept the punishment, which the punishment would be he is grounded for the day, would my son assume his punishment, would mean that he was grounded for the rest of his life? what are you even talking about....please look up the defitnition of punished/punishment/punish. etc....and get back to me on that....

 

[dollarsbill]

you are totally twisting this some way i dont even understand,,,,,the words spoken by Jesus are words for us now, not for us only to consider at judgement, by THEN IT IS TOO LATE, so what are you even talking about....of course we wouldnt fear it then, because we would already realize our fate, and whether we had fear at that point or not, would be irrelevant.....the fear He is talking about is knowing now, that we are to fear Him that can kill both body and soul in the afterlife.....so i have no idea what your even talking about..

If the wicked are destroyed they aren’t worried about anything. But eternal punishment in the “everlasting fire” is something to worry about.

it is my assumption you have no good answer for the point i brought up, so you must just think that God just likes to threaten us with saying things, and that He doesnt back up what He says.....unbelievable

God will make good of his promises to the wicked, indeed He will.

Revelation 20:10
10 And the devil who deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are also; and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.

Can't be any clearer.

 

[Ishraqiyun]

why do you and others only hold to the view that somehow punishment HAS TO MEAN an ongoing thing, that will never end....

I don't believe in ongoing eternal torture. I just think that ceasing to exist would be more of a gift than a punishment.

 

[jpcedotal]

I am a believer in eternal punishment or an eternity of torment for unbelievers.

I found this argument online and I have to admit it is by far better a better explanation than anything I have read on here....

[FONT=Times New Roman, times, serif]Biblically Dispelling the Myth of Eternal Torture[/FONT]​

I haven't changed my views but this article did shed some light on why some of ya'll are so venomously behind this view and also kind of shows me the angle at which "Final Death" believers (not sure what the correct term is) are coming from.

I just think it would be a good article for both sides to read.

 

[Sadalmelik]

If the wicked are destroyed they aren’t worried about anything. But eternal punishment in the “everlasting fire” is something to worry about.

God will make good of his promises to the wicked, indeed He will.

Revelation 20:10
10 And the devil who deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are also; and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.

Can't be any clearer.

ok i can see this is going nowhere, since obviously your choosing not to even read or listen to what im actually saying...

"if the wicked are destroyed they dont worry about anything" huh?

where did that come from....the verse says fear, not worry, further, if it were only meant for those to worry/fear at time of judgement, why would it be in the bible? this doesnt even make any sense....uy yiy yiy...some peoples views are completely incomprehensible to me.

 

[dollarsbill]

no eternal life does not end, thats why its called life!

And neither does eternal punishment.

eternal punishment/death does end, thats why its called death, not
life.....see the difference?

Death does not mean cessation.

1 Timothy 5:6
6 But she who gives herself to wanton pleasure is dead even while she lives.

Care to translate?

i feel like im teaching my 8yr old son.

Please do not PM me again with another apology.

 

[dollarsbill]

....you may think verses that you interpret say this, but that would be a misinterpretation, because the bible no where says this. ive looked, it isnt there.

Then you should have responded to the verses I quoted.

 

[Ishraqiyun]

Not all "dead" or "death" mean the same thing. We are dead in sin until we are born again. This doesn't mean our body and brain have ceased functioning and then starts when we are born again. Death can also be used in the conventional biological sense too though.

 

[jpcedotal]

Here is another article from the other side of the argument:

Is Hell Eternal?

The Eternal Punishment of the Lost

 

[Whisper of Hope]

why do you and others only hold to the view that somehow punishment HAS TO MEAN an ongoing thing, that will never end....

if my son misbehaves and i tell him he will have to accept the punishment, which the punishment would be he is grounded for the day, would my son assume his punishment, would mean that he was grounded for the rest of his life? what are you even talking about....please look up the defitnition of punished/punishment/punish. etc....and get back to me on that....

However, we are not God. Our standards of righteousness and what is good are not the same as His. Our standards are nowhere near what His standards are. Our ways are not His ways and our thoughts are not His thoughts (Isaiah 55:8). His standard of good is infinitely higher than ours. In fact, Scripture tells us that our acts of righteousness are like filthy rags to God (Isaiah 64:6). I don't believe we can appropriately compare our own standard of good and righteousness to God's. His nature and character are described throughout the Scriptures. Scripture tells us that He is omniscient, omnipotent, omnipresent, infinite, eternal, incomprehensible, unequaled, holy, perfect, almighty, absolute, and unchanging. Scripture also tells us that God is truth, good, love, gracious, merciful, long-suffering, and forgiving. We, on the other hand, are not omniscient, omnipotent, omnipresent, infinite, eternal, incomprehensible, unequaled, holy, perfect, almighty, absolute, and unchanging. Not to mention the fact that we are not always true, good, loving, gracious, merciful, long-suffering, and forgiving. We simply cannot compare our own standards of good to His.

 

[Sadalmelik]

Matthew 10:28

English Standard Version (ESV)

28 And do not fear those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather fear him who can destroy both soul and body in hell.[a]


ok, i dont fear men who can kill my body, (who cannot kill my soul), but i shoud fear Him who can destroy both my soul and body in hell (gehenna).

ok....i submit, i dont fear men, but i do fear God, because He clearly states here what He can do....for all you immortal soulists out there, you have a lot of explaining to do....because you are denying Gods ability to do what He says He can do. but again im sure your just thinking that God is just making idle threats here, and is just throwing out words for no apparent reason...why He could have said anything.........right...got ya.

 

[jpcedotal]

To me....to not believe in eternal punishment or torment is to humanize God....that in the end He will either forgive the Lost or wipe them completely out including their soul or spirit.

Is the human soul eternal? I mean, I think will can all agree that the human soul has a beginning, but does it have an end? What does the Bible teach about this...strictly about the eternal soul, not about eternal life or eternal punishment or eternal death, but just about the human soul itself?