Do you believe in Hell and why?/why not?

[Sadalmelik]

And neither does eternal punishment.

Death does not mean cessation.

1 Timothy 5:6
6 But she who gives herself to wanton pleasure is dead even while she lives.

Care to translate?

Please do not PM me again with another apology.

apologize for what, showing the problems with your pov? if your this sensitive and take things so personally, perhaps a debate forum is not where you should be....just a thought

 

[dollarsbill]

apologize for what, showing the problems with your pov? if your this sensitive and take things so personally, perhaps a debate forum is not where you should be....just a thought

You had opportunity to address the several Scriptures I quoted. You didn't/couldn't.

 

[Sadalmelik]

However, we are not God. Our standards of righteousness and what is good are not the same as His. Our standards are nowhere near what His standards are. Our ways are not His ways and our thoughts are not His thoughts (Isaiah 55:8). His standard of good is infinitely higher than ours. In fact, Scripture tells us that our acts of righteousness are like filthy rags to God (Isaiah 64:6). I don't believe we can appropriately compare our own standard of good and righteousness to God's. His nature and character are described throughout the Scriptures. Scripture tells us that He is omniscient, omnipotent, omnipresent, infinite, eternal, incomprehensible, unequaled, holy, perfect, almighty, absolute, and unchanging. Scripture also tells us that God is truth, good, love, gracious, merciful, long-suffering, and forgiving. We, on the other hand, are not omniscient, omnipotent, omnipresent, infinite, eternal, incomprehensible, unequaled, holy, perfect, almighty, absolute, and unchanging. Not to mention the fact that we are not always true, good, loving, gracious, merciful, long-suffering, and forgiving. We simply cannot compare our own standards of good to His.

agree, Amen.....dont see what that has to do with my point though. i was merely trying to point out that the word punishment, doesnt necessarily mean something that never ends....you can disagree if you want to, but i dont think all of the above what necessary to say..."i dont agree w/that"

 

[JesusFreak78]

I am about to engage in some serious studying.

First subject: Hell.

The conventional idea of Hell is a place of eternal punishment for those who don't accept Jesus.
This is something that I find hard to accept. I'm interested in people's opinions and texts from the Bible...or suggestions on what I should study

Yes, I believe in hell as stated several places in the bible. Let me list a few verses.

Matthew 5:29-30
29 If your right eye makes you stumble, tear it out and throw it from you; for it is better for you to lose one of the parts of your body, than for your whole body to be thrown into hell.
30 If your right hand makes you stumble, cut it off and throw it from you; for it is better for you to lose one of the parts of your body, than for your whole body to go into hell.

Luke 16:19-31
19 “Now there was a rich man, and he habitually dressed in purple and fine linen, joyously living in splendor every day.
20 And a poor man named Lazarus was laid at his gate, covered with sores,
21 and longing to be fed with the crumbs which were falling from the rich man’s table; besides, even the dogs were coming and licking his sores.
22 Now the poor man died and was carried away by the angels to Abraham’s bosom; and the rich man also died and was buried.
23 In Hades he lifted up his eyes, being in torment, and *saw Abraham far away and Lazarus in his bosom.
24 And he cried out and said, ‘Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus so that he may dip the tip of his finger in water and cool off my tongue, for I am in agony in this flame.’
25 But Abraham said, ‘Child, remember that during your life you received your good things, and likewise Lazarus bad things; but now he is being comforted here, and you are in agony.
26 And besides all this, between us and you there is a great chasm fixed, so that those who wish to come over from here to you will not be able, and that none may cross over from there to us.’
27 And he said, ‘Then I beg you, father, that you send him to my father’s house—
28 for I have five brothers—in order that he may warn them, so that they will not also come to this place of torment.’
29 But Abraham *said, ‘They have Moses and the Prophets; let them hear them.’
30 But he said, ‘No, father Abraham, but if someone goes to them from the dead, they will repent!’
31 But he said to him, ‘If they do not listen to Moses and the Prophets, they will not be persuaded even if someone rises from the dead.’”

Revelation 20:15
And if anyone’s name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire.

It's many more verses than this, but like I said, this is a few verses from the bible on hell.

 

[Sadalmelik]

You had opportunity to address the several Scriptures I quoted. You didn't/couldn't.

ill have to go back and read the thread, ive been in and out skipping here and there, so im not sure what verses your talking about....i dont usually ignore someone or there questions on purpose....sometimes it happens when your trying to reply to several different people at the same time.

 

[Sadalmelik]

Matthew 10:28

English Standard Version (ESV)

28 And do not fear those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather fear him who can destroy both soul and body in hell.[a]


ok, i dont fear men who can kill my body, (who cannot kill my soul), but i shoud fear Him who can destroy both my soul and body in hell (gehenna).

ok....i submit, i dont fear men, but i do fear God, because He clearly states here what He can do....for all you immortal soulists out there, you have a lot of explaining to do....because you are denying Gods ability to do what He says He can do. but again im sure your just thinking that God is just making idle threats here, and is just throwing out words for no apparent reason...why He could have said anything.........right...got ya.

afterall, He could of said somthing like "fear Him who can throw you into a place of torment, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth, and the fire never goes out, and there will be no escape"....hmmmm i can only imagine why this wasnt said.......
oh well, maybe it becuase He said what He said because thats exactly what He meant to say....and obviously chose those words for a reason....theres an epiphany.

 

[Timothew]

Originally Posted by Timothew

Romans 6:23 The wages of sin is death. Which part of this do you not understand?
​

I could ask you the same.

I don't understand the part where people say that death is eternal life being tortured in hell.

 

[Osage Bluestem]

HELL

by R.C. Sproul

We have often heard statements such as “War is hell” or “I went through hell.” These expressions are, of course, not taken literally. Rather, they reflect our tendency to use the word hell as a descriptive term for the most ghastly human experience possible. Yet no human experience in this world is actually comparable to hell. If we try to imagine the worst of all possible suffering in the here and now we have not yet stretched our imaginations to reach the dreadful reality of hell.
Hell is trivialized when it is used as a common curse word. To use the word lightly may be a halfhearted human attempt to take the concept lightly or to treat it in an amusing way. We tend to joke about things most frightening to us in a futile effort to declaw and defang them, reducing their threatening power.
There is no biblical concept more grim or terror-invoking than the idea of hell. It is so unpopular with us that few would give credence to it at all except that it comes to us from the teaching of Christ Himself.
Almost all the biblical teaching about hell comes from the lips of Jesus. It is this doctrine, perhaps more than any other, that strains even the Christian’s loyalty to the teaching of Christ. Modern Christians have pushed the limits of minimizing hell in an effort to sidestep or soften Jesus’ own teaching. The Bible describes hell as a place of outer darkness, a lake of fire, a place of weeping and gnashing of teeth, a place of eternal separation from the blessings of God, a prison, a place of torment where the worm doesn’t turn or die. These graphic images of eternal punishment provoke the question, should we take these descriptions literally or are they merely symbols?
I suspect they are symbols, but I find no relief in that. We must not think of them as being merely symbols. It is probable that the sinner in hell would prefer a literal lake of fire as his eternal abode to the reality of hell represented in the lake of fire image. If these images are indeed symbols, then we must conclude that the reality is worse than the symbol suggests. The function of symbols is to point beyond themselves to a higher or more intense state of actuality than the symbol itself can contain. That Jesus used the most awful symbols imaginable to describe hell is no comfort to those who see them simply as symbols.
A breath of relief is usually heard when someone declares, “Hell is a symbol for separation from God.” To be separated from God for eternity is no great threat to the impenitent person. The ungodly want nothing more than to be separated from God. Their problem in hell will not be separation from God, it will be the presence of God that will torment them. In hell, God will be present in the fullness of His divine wrath. He will be there to exercise His just punishment of the damned. They will know Him as an all-consuming fire.
No matter how we analyze the concept of hell it often sounds to us as a place of cruel and unusual punishment. If, however, we can take any comfort in the concept of hell, we can take it in the full assurance that there will be no cruelty there. It is impossible for God to be cruel. Cruelty involves inflicting a punishment that is more severe or harsh than the crime. Cruelty in this sense is unjust. God is incapable of inflicting an unjust punishment. The Judge of all the earth will surely do what is right. No innocent person will ever suffer at His hand.
Perhaps the most frightening aspect of hell is its eternality. People can endure the greatest agony if they know it will ultimately stop. In hell there is no such hope. The Bible clearly teaches that the punishment is eternal. The same word is used for both eternal life and eternal death. Punishment implies pain. Mere annihilation, which some have lobbied for, involves no pain. Jonathan Edwards, in preaching on Revelation 6:15-16 said, “Wicked men will hereafter earnestly wish to be turned to nothing and forever cease to be that they may escape the wrath of God.” (John H. Gerstner, Jonathan Edwards on Heaven and Hell [Orlando: Ligonier Ministries, 1991], 75.)
Hell, then, is an eternity before the righteous, ever-burning wrath of God, a suffering torment from which there is no escape and no relief. Understanding this is crucial to our drive to appreciate the work of Christ and to preach His gospel.
Summary

1. The suffering of hell is beyond any experience of misery found in this world.
2. Hell is clearly included in the teaching of Jesus.
3. If the biblical descriptions of hell are symbols, then the reality will be worse than the symbols.
4. Hell is the presence of God in His wrath and judgment.
5. There is no cruelty in hell. Hell will be a place of perfect justice.
6. Hell is eternal. There is no escape through either repentance or annihilation.

Biblical passages for reflection: Matthew 8:11-12, Mark 9:42-48, Luke 16:19-31, Jude 1:3-13, Revelation 20:11-15.



Link: R.C. Sproul on Hell

RC Sproul is right on target with this one I believe.

 

[omanid]

Matthew 10:28 Do not be afraid of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather, be afraid of the One who can destroy both soul and body in hell.

What is left if there's no body or soul?

 

[Whisper of Hope]

RC Sproul is right on target with this one I believe.

I think so too.

 

[Sadalmelik]

Matthew 10:28 Do not be afraid of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather, be afraid of the One who can destroy both soul and body in hell.

What is left if there's no body or soul?[/quote


well i heard in another post, with an eternal hell view say that after the wicked are thrown into the lake of fire, and are thus turned into ashes, that we are still conscience enough to continue suffering, so maybe its the ashes without a soul? dont ask me.....im only telling you what i was told so basically its there ashes then that are weeping and gnashing there teeth.....do ashes have teeth?

 

[Sadalmelik]

e·ter·nal

   /ɪˈtɜr

nl/ http://dictionary.reference.com/help/luna/IPA_pron_key.htmlShow Spelled[ih-tur-nl] http://dictionary.reference.com/help/luna/Spell_pron_key.htmlShow IPA
adjective 1. without beginning or end; lasting forever; always existing ( opposed to temporal): eternal life.

2. perpetual; ceaseless; endless: eternal quarreling; eternal chatter.

3. enduring; immutable: eternal principles.

4. Metaphysics . existing outside all relations of time; not subject to change




by the way, eternal also means without beginning,,,,,,my interpretation is that would mean it has always been, always existed......so would anyone care to tell me how eternal punishment would be possible anyway, well, you know, going by the definition it would seem like eternal punishment has always been occurring just like God? always has been the the Alpha and Omega........

i know, i know, there must be some sort of translation error there.....how ironic though....it happens to be right next to the word punishment....wonder if that word could have been mistranslated too.. or at the least misinterpreted..hmmmmm. well i leave to yall to figure out. i still cant figure out how punishment and death could have been eternal.......ya see, eternal doesnt just mean going forward in time, it also means going backwards too. ya ill have to think about that one....

 

[Sadalmelik]

a·bom·i·na·tion

   /əˌbɒm

əˈneɪ

ʃən/ http://dictionary.reference.com/help/luna/IPA_pron_key.htmlShow Spelled[uh-bom-uh-ney-shuh

n] http://dictionary.reference.com/help/luna/Spell_pron_key.htmlShow IPA
noun 1. anything abominable; anything greatly disliked or abhorred.

2. intense aversion or loathing; detestation: He regarded lying with abomination.

3. a vile, shameful, or detestable action, condition, habit, etc.: Spitting in public is an abomination.


by the way, while im here giving definitions.....let me throw this one out and let yall think about it for a minute....and actually understand what the definition of abomination means....so were all on the same page....ok be back....

 

[omanid]

John 3:16 "For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.

"Perish" doesn't mean sort of existing...
The opposite of eternal life is eternal death.

 

[omanid]

a·bom·i·na·tion

   /əˌbɒm

əˈneɪ

ʃən/ http://dictionary.reference.com/help/luna/IPA_pron_key.htmlShow Spelled[uh-bom-uh-ney-shuh

n] http://dictionary.reference.com/help/luna/Spell_pron_key.htmlShow IPA
noun 1. anything abominable; anything greatly disliked or abhorred.

2. intense aversion or loathing; detestation: He regarded lying with abomination.

3. a vile, shameful, or detestable action, condition, habit, etc.: Spitting in public is an abomination.


by the way, while im here giving definitions.....let me throw this one out and let yall think about it for a minute....and actually understand what the definition of abomination means....so were all on the same page....ok be back....

OoOoOOo...that's a good one for people who think God loves Satan.
I might steal it from you and slap it in that thread...
It's not really stealing, though, since we're both Christians and your stuff is my stuff :3

 

[Sadalmelik]

2nd post in reference to post #115.......ok, for those who maintain that God can and will make the wicked suffer in eternal hellfire, and by the way (to my knowledge, correct me if im wrong please), that is the orthodox view of hell, an eternal hellfire,,,so if you think it anything else, you are unorthodox, again i believe im correct in saying that.....regardless, all this talk of fire is making my head spin.....for those who believe the wicked will suffer this fate....let me ask, you this....and remember, the abomination definition above....

 

[Sadalmelik]

Jeremiah Prays for Understanding

16 “After I had given the deed of purchase to Baruch the son of Neriah, I prayed to the LORD, saying: 17 ‘Ah, Lord GOD! It is you who have made the heavens and the earth by your great power and by your outstretched arm! Nothing is too hard for you. 18 You show steadfast love to thousands, but you repay the guilt of fathers to their children after them, O great and mighty God, whose name is the LORD of hosts, 19 great in counsel and mighty in deed, whose eyes are open to all the ways of the children of man, rewarding each one according to his ways and according to the fruit of his deeds. 20 You have shown signs and wonders in the land of Egypt, and to this day in Israel and among all mankind, and have made a name for yourself, as at this day. 21 You brought your people Israel out of the land of Egypt with signs and wonders, with a strong hand and outstretched arm, and with great terror. 22 And you gave them this land, which you swore to their fathers to give them, a land flowing with milk and honey. 23 And they entered and took possession of it. But they did not obey your voice or walk in your law. They did nothing of all you commanded them to do. Therefore you have made all this disaster come upon them. 24 Behold, the siege mounds have come up to the city to take it, and because of sword and famine and pestilence the city is given into the hands of the Chaldeans who are fighting against it. What you spoke has come to pass, and behold, you see it. 25 Yet you, O Lord GOD, have said to me, “Buy the field for money and get witnesses”—though the city is given into the hands of the Chaldeans.’”
26 The word of the LORD came to Jeremiah: 27 “Behold, I am the LORD, the God of all flesh. Is anything too hard for me? 28 Therefore, thus says the LORD: Behold, I am giving this city into the hands of the Chaldeans and into the hand of Nebuchadnezzar king of Babylon, and he shall capture it. 29 The Chaldeans who are fighting against this city shall come and set this city on fire and burn it, with the houses on whose roofs offerings have been made to Baal and drink offerings have been poured out to other gods, to provoke me to anger. 30 For the children of Israel and the children of Judah have done nothing but evil in my sight from their youth. The children of Israel have done nothing but provoke me to anger by the work of their hands, declares the LORD. 31 This city has aroused my anger and wrath, from the day it was built to this day, so that I will remove it from my sight 32 because of all the evil of the children of Israel and the children of Judah that they did to provoke me to anger—their kings and their officials, their priests and their prophets, the men of Judah and the inhabitants of Jerusalem. 33 They have turned to me their back and not their face. And though I have taught them persistently, they have not listened to receive instruction. 34 They set up their abominations in the house that is called by my name, to defile it. 35 They built the high places of Baal in the Valley of the Son of Hinnom, to offer up their sons and daughters to Molech, though I did not command them, nor did it enter into my mind, that they should do this abomination, to cause Judah to sin.




sorry so long, i wanted to give it in context, would you mind explaining verse 35 to me.....cause i read this as God finding it to be an abomination regarding what went on there.....yall do know what happened there dont you ?

 

[Sadalmelik]

if you dont know, google the terms bold faced and get back to me later, cause i have to run out now for chores...and i am anticipating some good humor when i get back in regards to the responses im going to get on this one.

 

[omanid]

if you dont know, google the terms bold faced and get back to me later, cause i have to run out now for chores...and i am anticipating some good humor when i get back in regards to the responses im going to get on this one.

:/

 

[Timothew]

Your statement can be changed to represent the opposite:

The simple reason is that the Annihilation Preachers are mistaken about what the bible says.

I suppose my statement could be changed to represent the opposite, but then my statement would no longer be true, would it?

You haven't said anything to offend me, you and I just disagree and that's OK.