Do you agree that christians should keep the 10 Commandments?

[Elder 111]

I do not agree. Jesus gave us the commandments that summarizes the whole law (including the 10 commandments). The first commandment that Jesus gave us is to love God with all of our minds, body, and soul. I worship God because I love Him not because I follow a checklist.

Jesus said if you love follow the check list.
Why do you have a problem with the 10 commandments when Paul said that it is holy Just and Good. Rom 7 12Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good. Does not Rev 22:14-15 point to keeping the commandments?
This is not means of salvation but cab you be saved and violate them?

 

[Elder 111]

I don't follow a single commandments from the tablets of stone. Not a one. Actually I can't which is why Jesus had to die for me.





It does not and you are not representing the word of God but the weakness of man. Men love checklists and having a monkey on their backs.

So you teach your children to steal lie and murder. If not my friend you are siding with the 10 commandments.

 

[Elder 111]

Interesting that you would still try this. First of all I have never denied the 10 Cs. I have never taught anybody to lie, steal, murder, commit adultery, or worship another god. Such would be an antithesis to Christianity. I see this is a demand to keep the law, nothing more than a manipulative ploy. I've explained Jer 31:31-34 in detail and given Jesus' testimony more than once. Have used other supporting Scripture that hasn't been shown to be in agreement with your position. I've said over and over incidence isn't obedience and will add that it doesn't make obligation either. The demand still remains that if I don't support obligation to the 10 Cs, I teach people to sin. Gal 5:19-21 doesn't so indicate. Where is the rebuttal for Gal 5:19-21? The focus of Galatians 5 isn't the law. Absolutely I accept - no require that a Christian serve God. That isn't the problem. The problem is that I'm a NC Christian shown to be inforce by Jesus' own words. I don't accept replacement theology or British Israelism, either. The church hasn't and doesn't replace or become Israel. Your stance requires this.Whose commandments?
So sorry, wrong set of commmandments. The commandment of God for the Christian is found in I John 3:23 - And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment. What commandment is theChristian obligated to? The 10 Cs aren't indetified here.

I am sorry too.
Ezekiel 22:25-27 (King James Version)


25There is a conspiracy of her prophets in the midst thereof, like a roaring lion ravening the prey; they have devoured souls; they have taken the treasure and precious things; they have made her many widows in the midst thereof.
Eze. 22 26Her priests have violated my law, and have profaned mine holy things: they have put no difference between the holy and profane, neither have they shewed difference between the unclean and the clean, and have hid their eyes from my sabbaths, and I am profaned among them.
27Her princes in the midst thereof are like wolves ravening the prey, to shed blood, and to destroy souls, to get dishonest gain.
Mat 7 12Therefore all things whatsoever ye would that men should do to you, do ye even so to them: for this is the law and the prophets.( what Jesus quote was not another but the same as the law. Is that not Jesus says here? We keep saying that it is another, not so. He did not change He confirmed)

13Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:

(the idea that all we have to do is love sound real broad the 10 commandments sound too narrow. So take the easy road,especially when comes to the Sabbath)
14Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.
Interesting what comes after that.

 

[tall73]

How can the Golden rule nullify the 10 commandments?
That is what most people state, and clearly that is not true. The golden rule is a summary of the 10.

You have it backwards. The two greatest commandments are not a summary of the ten. They are the underlying principles which the whole law--not just the ten commandments--hang on.


Let's look at the story where Jesus references the two greatest commandments:

Mat 22:36 Master, which is the great commandment in the law?
Mat 22:37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
Mat 22:38 This is the first and great commandment.
Mat 22:39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
Mat 22:40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.


Jesus did did just what the man asked. He identified FROM THE LAW the greatest commandment.


Deu 6:5 You shall love the LORD your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your might.

And then He identified another pivotal law:

Lev 19:18 You shall not take vengeance or bear a grudge against the sons of your own people, but you shall love your neighbor as yourself: I am the LORD.


These were from the law, just not the ten commandments.

And He does not say they are a summary of the ten. Rather all the law and prophets HANG on these two great commands.

These are the great principles undergirding the law which all the law flows from.

Jesus is not referring only to the ten commandments, but to the whole law and the prophets.

And there were moral principles in the whole law, not just the ten. So the ten are specific guidelines from those great commands. But so are the rest of the law. But they were specific guidelines in the context of the covenant with Israel, and with that people.

 

[tall73]

The 10 was never covering sin. But how would I know sin without the 10?

How would we know sin without the WHOLE law? When Jesus spoke of the law He did not reference just the ten.


Notice this text from Matthew 5, often quoted by Adventists, which outlines not only principles from the ten but from the whole law:



Mat 5:18 For truly, I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not an iota, not a dot, will pass from the Law until all is accomplished.
Mat 5:19 Therefore whoever relaxes one of the least of these commandments and teaches others to do the same will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever does them and teaches them will be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

The words apply to the whole law, not just the ten commandments.

Murder


Mat 5:20 For I tell you, unless your righteousness exceeds that of the scribes and Pharisees, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven.
Mat 5:21 "You have heard that it was said to those of old, 'You shall not murder; and whoever murders will be liable to judgment.'
Mat 5:22 But I say to you that everyone who is angry with his brother will be liable to judgment; whoever insults his brother will be liable to the council; and whoever says, 'You fool!' will be liable to the hell of fire.
Mat 5:23 So if you are offering your gift at the altar and there remember that your brother has something against you,
Mat 5:24 leave your gift there before the altar and go. First be reconciled to your brother, and then come and offer your gift.
Mat 5:25 Come to terms quickly with your accuser while you are going with him to court, lest your accuser hand you over to the judge, and the judge to the guard, and you be put in prison.
Mat 5:26 Truly, I say to you, you will never get out until you have paid the last penny.


Jesus shows that behind the command against murder, one of the ten, is also the principle of reconciling with your brother and not hating your brother.

Adultery

Mat 5:27 "You have heard that it was said, 'You shall not commit adultery.'
Mat 5:28 But I say to you that everyone who looks at a woman with lustful intent has already committed adultery with her in his heart.
Mat 5:29 If your right eye causes you to sin, tear it out and throw it away. For it is better that you lose one of your members than that your whole body be thrown into hell.
Mat 5:30 And if your right hand causes you to sin, cut it off and throw it away. For it is better that you lose one of your members than that your whole body go into hell.
Mat 5:31 "It was also said, 'Whoever divorces his wife, let him give her a certificate of divorce.'
Mat 5:32 But I say to you that everyone who divorces his wife, except on the ground of sexual immorality, makes her commit adultery, and whoever marries a divorced woman commits adultery.

Another of the 10 is enlarged upon. Lust is adultery of the heart. Even thoughts matter.

But then Jesus turns to some issues from other commands.

Oaths


Mat 5:33 "Again you have heard that it was said to those of old, 'You shall not swear falsely, but shall perform to the Lord what you have sworn.'
Mat 5:34 But I say to you, Do not take an oath at all, either by heaven, for it is the throne of God,
Mat 5:35 or by the earth, for it is his footstool, or by Jerusalem, for it is the city of the great King.
Mat 5:36 And do not take an oath by your head, for you cannot make one hair white or black.
Mat 5:37 Let what you say be simply 'Yes' or 'No'; anything more than this comes from evil.


This command is from the OT law, but not the ten commandments.

Compare:

Num 30:2 If a man vow a vow unto the LORD, or swear an oath to bind his soul with a bond; he shall not break his word, he shall do according to all that proceedeth out of his mouth.

Lev 19:12 And ye shall not swear by my name falsely, neither shalt thou profane the name of thy God: I am the LORD.


So when Jesus speaks of the law He does not refer only to the ten.

Eye for Eye

Mat 5:38 "You have heard that it was said, 'An eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth.'
Mat 5:39 But I say to you, Do not resist the one who is evil. But if anyone slaps you on the right cheek, turn to him the other also.
Mat 5:40 And if anyone would sue you and take your tunic, let him have your cloak as well.
Mat 5:41 And if anyone forces you to go one mile, go with him two miles.
Mat 5:42 Give to the one who begs from you, and do not refuse the one who would borrow from you.

Compare:

Exo 21:24 Eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot,
Exo 21:25 Burning for burning, wound for wound, stripe for stripe.


Again Jesus references parts of the law not in the ten.



Not only that, sometimes the word law means the whole first five books, and when paired with "the prophets" can indicate OT scripture. We also see this in Matt. 5:17


Mat 5:17 "Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them.

 

[tall73]

Here are just some of the laws that deal with issues not directly addressed in the ten commandments, but which do flow from the two great commands.

There are moral commands in more than just the ten.


Liability and negligence in regard to livestock

Exo 21:33 "When a man opens a pit, or when a man digs a pit and does not cover it, and an ox or a donkey falls into it,
Exo 21:34 the owner of the pit shall make restoration. He shall give money to its owner, and the dead beast shall be his.
Exo 21:35 "When one man's ox butts another's, so that it dies, then they shall sell the live ox and share its price, and the dead beast also they shall share.
Exo 21:36 Or if it is known that the ox has been accustomed to gore in the past, and its owner has not kept it in, he shall repay ox for ox, and the dead beast shall be his.

Respect for rulers

Exo 22:28 "You shall not revile God, nor curse a ruler of your people.

Sexual issues other than adultery

Exo 22:19 "Whoever lies with an animal shall be put to death.

Lev 19:29 "Do not profane your daughter by making her a prostitute, lest the land fall into prostitution and the land become full of depravity.

Lev 18:6 "None of you shall approach any one of his close relatives to uncover nakedness. I am the LORD.

Lev 18:22 You shall not lie with a male as with a woman; it is an abomination.

Lending assistance to others

Deu 22:1 "You shall not see your brother's ox or his sheep going astray and ignore them. You shall take them back to your brother.

Deu 22:4 You shall not see your brother's donkey or his ox fallen down by the way and ignore them. You shall help him to lift them up again.

Cross dressing

Deu 22:5 "A woman shall not wear a man's garment, nor shall a man put on a woman's cloak, for whoever does these things is an abomination to the LORD your God.

Vows

Deu 23:21 "If you make a vow to the LORD your God, you shall not delay fulfilling it, for the LORD your God will surely require it of you, and you will be guilty of sin.
Deu 23:22 But if you refrain from vowing, you will not be guilty of sin.
Deu 23:23 You shall be careful to do what has passed your lips, for you have voluntarily vowed to the LORD your God what you have promised with your mouth.


Not punishing someone for the offense of a relative.

Deu 24:16 "Fathers shall not be put to death because of their children, nor shall children be put to death because of their fathers. Each one shall be put to death for his own sin.

Forbidding unduly harsh punishment

Deu 25:2 then if the guilty man deserves to be beaten, the judge shall cause him to lie down and be beaten in his presence with a number of stripes in proportion to his offense.
Deu 25:3 Forty stripes may be given him, but not more, lest, if one should go on to beat him with more stripes than these, your brother be degraded in your sight.

 

[tall73]

Why do you have a problem with the 10 commandments when Paul said that it is holy Just and Good. Rom 7 12Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good.

Paul was not speaking only of the ten commandments.



Rom 7:12 So the law is holy, and the commandment is holy and righteous and good.


You have a specific reference to the ten in chapter 7as it quotes the command against coveting:

Rom 7:7 What then shall we say? That the law is sin? By no means! Yet if it had not been for the law, I would not have known sin. For I would not have known what it is to covet if the law had not said, "You shall not covet."

But at the beginning of his argument in the same chapter he references another point in the law which is not from the ten.

Rom 7:1 Or do you not know, brothers--for I am speaking to those who know the law--that the law is binding on a person only as long as he lives?
Rom 7:2 For a married woman is bound by law to her husband while he lives, but if her husband dies she is released from the law of marriage.
Rom 7:3 Accordingly, she will be called an adulteress if she lives with another man while her husband is alive. But if her husband dies, she is free from that law, and if she marries another man she is not an adulteress.

The release of marriage upon death of a spouse is not referenced in the ten. Paul is talking about the whole law.

Adventists consistently overlook references to the whole law and substitute the ten commandments.

 

[from scratch]

Jesus said if you love follow the check list.

What check list? John 15:10.

Why do you have a problem with the 10 commandments when Paul said that it is holy Just and Good. Rom 7 12Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good. Does not Rev 22:14-15 point to keeping the commandments?

Who has a problem with the 10 Cs? The only folks I know with a problem are the ones claiming to keep them. Notice I said claiming.

This is not means of salvation but cab you be saved and violate them?

It isn't possible to violate something having no jurisdiction.

 

[from scratch]

So you teach your children to steal lie and murder. If not my friend you are siding with the 10 commandments.

Shame on you Hentenza and me for doing such a bad thing.

It isn't true that we're theaching or doing any of the above in following the Spirit and not the 10 Cs. Gal 5:18.

 

[from scratch]

I am sorry too.
Ezekiel 22:25-27 (King James Version)


25There is a conspiracy of her prophets in the midst thereof, like a roaring lion ravening the prey; they have devoured souls; they have taken the treasure and precious things; they have made her many widows in the midst thereof.
Eze. 22 26Her priests have violated my law, and have profaned mine holy things: they have put no difference between the holy and profane, neither have they shewed difference between the unclean and the clean, and have hid their eyes from my sabbaths, and I am profaned among them.
27Her princes in the midst thereof are like wolves ravening the prey, to shed blood, and to destroy souls, to get dishonest gain.
Mat 7 12Therefore all things whatsoever ye would that men should do to you, do ye even so to them: for this is the law and the prophets.( what Jesus quote was not another but the same as the law. Is that not Jesus says here? We keep saying that it is another, not so. He did not change He confirmed)

13Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:

(the idea that all we have to do is love sound real broad the 10 commandments sound too narrow. So take the easy road,especially when comes to the Sabbath)
14Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.
Interesting what comes after that.

So you call us false prohpets. Is condemnation the only thing you know to defend your beliefs? I really don'tunderstand why you don't love what Jesus offers.

 

[from scratch]

How would we know sin without the WHOLE law? When Jesus spoke of the law He did not reference just the ten.


Notice this text from Matthew 5, often quoted by Adventists, which outlines not only principles from the ten but from the whole law:



Mat 5:18 For truly, I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not an iota, not a dot, will pass from the Law until all is accomplished.
Mat 5:19 Therefore whoever relaxes one of the least of these commandments and teaches others to do the same will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever does them and teaches them will be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

The words apply to the whole law, not just the ten commandments.

Murder


Mat 5:20 For I tell you, unless your righteousness exceeds that of the scribes and Pharisees, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven.
Mat 5:21 "You have heard that it was said to those of old, 'You shall not murder; and whoever murders will be liable to judgment.'
Mat 5:22 But I say to you that everyone who is angry with his brother will be liable to judgment; whoever insults his brother will be liable to the council; and whoever says, 'You fool!' will be liable to the hell of fire.
Mat 5:23 So if you are offering your gift at the altar and there remember that your brother has something against you,
Mat 5:24 leave your gift there before the altar and go. First be reconciled to your brother, and then come and offer your gift.
Mat 5:25 Come to terms quickly with your accuser while you are going with him to court, lest your accuser hand you over to the judge, and the judge to the guard, and you be put in prison.
Mat 5:26 Truly, I say to you, you will never get out until you have paid the last penny.


Jesus shows that behind the command against murder, one of the ten, is also the principle of reconciling with your brother and not hating your brother.

Adultery

Mat 5:27 "You have heard that it was said, 'You shall not commit adultery.'
Mat 5:28 But I say to you that everyone who looks at a woman with lustful intent has already committed adultery with her in his heart.
Mat 5:29 If your right eye causes you to sin, tear it out and throw it away. For it is better that you lose one of your members than that your whole body be thrown into hell.
Mat 5:30 And if your right hand causes you to sin, cut it off and throw it away. For it is better that you lose one of your members than that your whole body go into hell.
Mat 5:31 "It was also said, 'Whoever divorces his wife, let him give her a certificate of divorce.'
Mat 5:32 But I say to you that everyone who divorces his wife, except on the ground of sexual immorality, makes her commit adultery, and whoever marries a divorced woman commits adultery.

Another of the 10 is enlarged upon. Lust is adultery of the heart. Even thoughts matter.

But then Jesus turns to some issues from other commands.

Oaths


Mat 5:33 "Again you have heard that it was said to those of old, 'You shall not swear falsely, but shall perform to the Lord what you have sworn.'
Mat 5:34 But I say to you, Do not take an oath at all, either by heaven, for it is the throne of God,
Mat 5:35 or by the earth, for it is his footstool, or by Jerusalem, for it is the city of the great King.
Mat 5:36 And do not take an oath by your head, for you cannot make one hair white or black.
Mat 5:37 Let what you say be simply 'Yes' or 'No'; anything more than this comes from evil.


This command is from the OT law, but not the ten commandments.

Compare:

Num 30:2 If a man vow a vow unto the LORD, or swear an oath to bind his soul with a bond; he shall not break his word, he shall do according to all that proceedeth out of his mouth.

Lev 19:12 And ye shall not swear by my name falsely, neither shalt thou profane the name of thy God: I am the LORD.


So when Jesus speaks of the law He does not refer only to the ten.

Eye for Eye

Mat 5:38 "You have heard that it was said, 'An eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth.'
Mat 5:39 But I say to you, Do not resist the one who is evil. But if anyone slaps you on the right cheek, turn to him the other also.
Mat 5:40 And if anyone would sue you and take your tunic, let him have your cloak as well.
Mat 5:41 And if anyone forces you to go one mile, go with him two miles.
Mat 5:42 Give to the one who begs from you, and do not refuse the one who would borrow from you.

Compare:

Exo 21:24 Eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot,
Exo 21:25 Burning for burning, wound for wound, stripe for stripe.


Again Jesus references parts of the law not in the ten.



Not only that, sometimes the word law means the whole first five books, and when paired with "the prophets" can indicate OT scripture. We also see this in Matt. 5:17


Mat 5:17 "Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them.

I think that the phrase the law always refers to the eintire Torah/Pentateuch as illustrated by Romans 7:1-7. I think that the above disucssion also illustrates that with Jesus'answer to the greatest commandment.

 

[from scratch]

Grace does not allow what the law forbade. Grace is not a license to lawlessness.

Who said it does?

Please note: We do not obtain salvation through obedience. We obey to show love for God.

 

[from scratch]

What kind of crazy idea is it that we are to keep the 10 but we are not obligated to them. I have seen some real fancy dancing when it comes to the 10 commandments. What would or is God saying now.

Say did you ever answer this question - My question is to whom were the 10 Cs given? If so where? If not will you please?

 

[from scratch]

Why do you need to meet the requirement of the law if there is now law?

Excellent question. Would you care to explain why anyone needs to meet the requirements of the law?

 

[from scratch]

Grace does not allow what the law forbade. Grace is not a license to lawlessness.

Please note: We do not obtain salvation through obedience. We obey to show love for God.

Question - If we don't obtain it through obedience to the law, how can we lose it through disobedience to the law?

 

[from scratch]

What about trusting God to provide a job that would allow you to keep the Sabbath?

Wonder what life would be like with no electricity one day a week?

 

[MamaZ]

I praise God for those who work on Sundays in the medical field. I cannot even imagine a place where if there were an accident that no would be available to respond and treat the wounded..

 

[Kaitlin08]

I don't see any particular reason to break them... but I also wouldn't advise using them as a special standard. Those plaques of the Ten Commandments which you still see outside of court buildings are something of a farce. They are just a simple legal code, not remarkable in any way, and they really don't have any connection to recent jurisprudence.

 

[from scratch]

I don't see any particular reason to break them... but I also wouldn't advise using them as a special standard. Those plaques of the Ten Commandments which you still see outside of court buildings are something of a farce. They are just a simple legal code, not remarkable in any way, and they really don't have any connection to recent jurisprudence.

Ain't that the truth?

 

[tall73]

So you teach your children to steal lie and murder. If not my friend you are siding with the 10 commandments.

Do you teach your children not to have sex with the same gender? If so then you are not teaching JUST the ten commandments.

Lev 18:22 You shall not lie with a male as with a woman; it is an abomination.


Do you teach your children to help someone out when they need it? If so then you are not going JUST by the ten commandments.

Deu 22:4 You shall not see your brother's donkey or his ox fallen down by the way and ignore them. You shall help him to lift them up again.