Do you agree that christians should keep the 10 Commandments?

[Elder 111]

I don't see any particular reason to break them... but I also wouldn't advise using them as a special standard. Those plaques of the Ten Commandments which you still see outside of court buildings are something of a farce. They are just a simple legal code, not remarkable in any way, and they really don't have any connection to recent jurisprudence.

We are dealing with God not man's short comings.

 

[Elder 111]

Do you teach your children not to have sex with the same gender? If so then you are not teaching JUST the ten commandments.

Lev 18:22 You shall not lie with a male as with a woman; it is an abomination.


Do you teach your children to help someone out when they need it? If so then you are not going JUST by the ten commandments.

Deu 22:4 You shall not see your brother's donkey or his ox fallen down by the way and ignore them. You shall help him to lift them up again.

Your arguments do not negate the ten commandments. You keep trying to expand on them. Because you can expand one them does not make the void but more so establishes them..

 

[Elder 111]

that God takes my stumbles...and uses even them, and does it through His grace....

i CANNOT keep the 10 commandments....so i gots lots o' runnin back to Him, seeking forgiveness and getting reassurance that they were kept by the ONE Who COULD keep them, and became my PROXY on that cross, when all those oppressive "laws" were nailed right there to that cross, as that curtain in the Temple tore straight down the middle, and GRACE stepped in, and wrapped around us like a warm, protective blanket. We have a CHAMPION, Who took on the laws, fulfilled them, and resurrected our re0union with our holy God, our Father, and we can NOW walk with Him, side by side....and bring ALL of our stumbles and bumbles to Him, just as a small child would do.....

God, in His inexplicable, perfect, simplicity, says right here what He requires, and it is this:

"He hath shewed thee, O man, what [is] good; and what doth the LORD require of thee, but to do justly, and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with thy God?" ~Micah 6:8

You used a very good example, that of a child. You would not expect certain things of a child, but you expects him to try. Failure is not the reason for not trying. Trying does not remove the need for help.
Just like our relationship with the law and Jesus. Failure does not remove the law but just a need of Grace. Where sin abound (breaking the law) Grace do much more abound.

 

[tall73]

Adultery is not of the ten Commandments?

Adultery? Yes.

Discussion of remarriage after death of a spouse? No.

And that was what was particularly referenced in that statement.

 

[tall73]

Your arguments do not negate the ten commandments. You keep trying to expand on them. Because you can expand one them does not make the void but more so establishes them..

What I am "trying" to do is point out that it is not just the ten commandments referenced by Jesus, Paul, and James.


If by "expanding on" you mean noting that it was more than just the ten in view, then yes. If by expanding on you mean something else, then no.

So do you then accept more commands than just the ten, from the rest of the law?

Do you keep the whole law?

 

[tall73]

Mat 5:18 For truly, I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not an iota, not a dot, will pass from the Law until all is accomplished.
Mat 5:19 Therefore whoever relaxes one of the least of these commandments and teaches others to do the same will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever does them and teaches them will be called great in the kingdom of heaven.


Elder, notice that Jesus says not an iota or a dot will pass from the law until all is accomplished.

The passage then expands on not just the ten but also vows, eye for eye, etc. which are not from the ten commandments, but are from the law. He uses the same "you have heard" formula to introduce them.


James also indicates breaking just one point means you have broken the whole law:

Jas 2:10 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.


In that same passage, as already outlined, he quotes from Deuteronomy on partiality and on the law of loving your neighbor. So this principle covers more than the ten commandments, yet some of the ten are also referenced.


Which law was it that James and the believers in Jerusalem were keeping?

The WHOLE law. Including ritual vows. Including sacrifices. Including temple worship. Including circumcision.


Act 21:20 And when they heard it, they glorified God. And they said to him, "You see, brother, how many thousands there are among the Jews of those who have believed. They are all zealous for the law,
Act 21:21 and they have been told about you that you teach all the Jews who are among the Gentiles to forsake Moses, telling them not to circumcise their children or walk according to our customs.
Act 21:22 What then is to be done? They will certainly hear that you have come.
Act 21:23 Do therefore what we tell you. We have four men who are under a vow;
Act 21:24 take these men and purify yourself along with them and pay their expenses, so that they may shave their heads. Thus all will know that there is nothing in what they have been told about you, but that you yourself also live in observance of the law.


Act 21:26 Then Paul took the men, and the next day he purified himself along with them and went into the temple, giving notice when the days of purification would be fulfilled and the offering presented for each one of them.

 

[tall73]

So can you clarify Elder, do you keep the WHOLE law?

 

[Deut 5:29]

I don't know your background. Do you advocate keeping the whole law as the messianics do?

If not, then would you say we still keep the Day of Atonement, passover, etc.?

Yes.

 

[from scratch]

We are dealing with God not man's short comings.

What then is the purpose of the NT/NC?

Isn't the NT/NC about our relationship with God?

Does Jeremiah mention anything about the reason for the NC?

 

[from scratch]

Your arguments do not negate the ten commandments. You keep trying to expand on them. Because you can expand one them does not make the void but more so establishes them..

I don't follow you at all here. Would you kindly explain how the 10 Cs are trying to be negated by tall73, please?

 

[from scratch]

The ten commandments was given to and is for every man, women and child that ever lived or will live on this earth.
Rev. 12:17, 14:12, 22:14, Luke 18

20Thou knowest the commandments, Do not commit adultery, Do not kill, Do not steal, Do not bear false witness, Honour thy father and thy mother.
21And he said, All these have I kept from my youth up.
22Now when Jesus heard these things, he said unto him, Yet lackest thou one thing: sell all that thou hast, and distribute unto the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come, follow me.
Note that Jesus did not say there were not needed, He said one thing you lack, in other words add this to the law, not remove the law.

Is that the record found in the Torah/Pentateuch? I don't think so. Exodus 16-20 and Deuteronomy 4-5. Is Moses telling the truth or a reliable source?

 

[from scratch]

Why would that be? Sunday is a working day. Sabbath is the day not to work. but behold, Jesus healed on the Sabbath.
True Sabbath keeper take care of the needs of people on the Sabbath including nurses and doctors. Did you not know that?
Check with anyone you may know or ask a question. Sabbath keeping is not what you make it out to be, or what the Jews made it out to be. Jesus set the example.
It is a sin to leave a need (not a want) undone on the Sabbath. Just like you plan for everything else you plan for the Sabbath.

Is electricity a need or a luxury?

 

[MamaZ]

Following rabbit trails is how you find rabbits.
It's like Prego...it's in there.

you just can't find it to prove your statment then?

 

[from scratch]

you just can't find it to prove your statment then?

Sure looks that way to me as well.

 

[Elder 111]

What I am "trying" to do is point out that it is not just the ten commandments referenced by Jesus, Paul, and James.


If by "expanding on" you mean noting that it was more than just the ten in view, then yes. If by expanding on you mean something else, then no.

So do you then accept more commands than just the ten, from the rest of the law?

Do you keep the whole law?

Yes there is more to christain living than the 10 commandments.
When you are all finish the ten commandments still stands.

 

[Elder 111]

Mat 5:18 For truly, I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not an iota, not a dot, will pass from the Law until all is accomplished.
Mat 5:19 Therefore whoever relaxes one of the least of these commandments and teaches others to do the same will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever does them and teaches them will be called great in the kingdom of heaven.


Elder, notice that Jesus says not an iota or a dot will pass from the law until all is accomplished.

The passage then expands on not just the ten but also vows, eye for eye, etc. which are not from the ten commandments, but are from the law. He uses the same "you have heard" formula to introduce them.


James also indicates breaking just one point means you have broken the whole law:

Jas 2:10 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.


In that same passage, as already outlined, he quotes from Deuteronomy on partiality and on the law of loving your neighbor. So this principle covers more than the ten commandments, yet some of the ten are also referenced.


Which law was it that James and the believers in Jerusalem were keeping?

The WHOLE law. Including ritual vows. Including sacrifices. Including temple worship. Including circumcision.


Act 21:20 And when they heard it, they glorified God. And they said to him, "You see, brother, how many thousands there are among the Jews of those who have believed. They are all zealous for the law,
Act 21:21 and they have been told about you that you teach all the Jews who are among the Gentiles to forsake Moses, telling them not to circumcise their children or walk according to our customs.
Act 21:22 What then is to be done? They will certainly hear that you have come.
Act 21:23 Do therefore what we tell you. We have four men who are under a vow;
Act 21:24 take these men and purify yourself along with them and pay their expenses, so that they may shave their heads. Thus all will know that there is nothing in what they have been told about you, but that you yourself also live in observance of the law.


Act 21:26 Then Paul took the men, and the next day he purified himself along with them and went into the temple, giving notice when the days of purification would be fulfilled and the offering presented for each one of them.

Wrong road. If that is good for you as an excuse to negate God's law fine.
The bible does not endorse your conclusions.

 

[Elder 111]

I don't follow you at all here. Would you kindly explain how the 10 Cs are trying to be negated by tall73, please?

Never said that.

 

[Elder 111]

Is that the record found in the Torah/Pentateuch? I don't think so. Exodus 16-20 and Deuteronomy 4-5. Is Moses telling the truth or a reliable source?

It's the record Jesus gave. Why don't you address that?

 

[tall73]

Yes there is more to christain living than the 10 commandments.
When you are all finish the ten commandments still stands.

So let's get specific. Do you keep the Day of Atonement, etc.?

 

[Elder 111]

Is electricity a need or a luxury?

As long as you can live without it that fine. System run without automatically today.
The point is God made the rule. Is He first or not. If it had to come to it, is electricity more important to than God? That is the real question.