Do you agree or disagree with this statement?

[TLK Valentine]

They do not have the answer for every question and the solution for every problem that anyone will ever encounter in their life.

And you do?

 

[mark kennedy]

Lots of things in life suffer from the Santa syndrome, if you stop reinforcing a belief then children will eventually stop believing it.

I never told my daughters there was some kind of a magical Santa. We always told our daughters that Santa was a nice old guy in Germany who made toys for children and gave them out as gifts around Christmas time.

 

[Gene2memE]

You are criticizing beliefs, not actions and behaviors. That's good.

I'll criticise both, as the situation warrants. Actions deserve criticism as much as beliefs do. Neither should be free from critical analysis.

I don't really care what others believe as long as they behave themselves.

I do, because actions are informed by belief and patterns of behavior stem from systems of belief. Proverbs 4:23: “Be careful how you think; your life is shaped by your thoughts”. What you consider someone behaving themselves may be wildly different my judgement of such, because of a disparity in our beliefs.

I'd like my internal map of reality to match actual reality as closely as it can. Intermittent modification of my beliefs and a continual process of education about reality is a small price to pay for that.

You noted in an earlier post "I want the creation to be pretty much the same when I wake up each morning", which seem to me that you're okay with a static set of beliefs about reality. I don't think I can dissuade you from that position, but I feel it is closed minded. The best approach, I feel, is to be able to honestly review your stance when presented with new information, and if you beliefs need modification, then to do so. This is HARD though, as we are all subject to our biases, and it is difficult to overcome them.

 

[joshua 1 9]

And you do?

God has the answer for every question and the solution for every problem in your life and in my life. In fact He has the answer for every question that anyone will ever ask and the solution for every problem that anyone will ever have. This is why I am a Christian, I was looking for answers and solutions. I looked everywhere I could find to look and then finally I looked to the Bible and finally found what I was looking for. If you reach out to man for help you better be careful he does not cut your arm off. If you reach out to God for help then He is there for you. I really wonder what the skeptics and scoffers do in their time of trouble.

 

[Robert Palase]

I never told my daughters there was some kind of a magical Santa. We always told our daughters that Santa was a nice old guy in Germany who made toys for children and gave them out as gifts around Christmas time.

Do they still believe that now?

 

[Kylie]

I could just as easily refer you to the Bible and say please read it and never use your arguments again. I won't though, because that would be inappropriate and disrespectful.

Really? You think the Bible is the same as a rational argument pointing out the logical fallacies that exist in Pascal's Wager?

Actually, I have no problem going to the doctor for illnesses, or taking medication. I have an anxiety disorder and I've been on medication for 8 years. I believe that God has blessed people with knowledge to help others in this way. One of the Gospel writers was actually a Physician and, he still trusted in the Lord. This does not in any way need to be an issue. Do I still pray, absolutely. I believe I should pray in every difficulty in life. I believe doctors are an answer to prayer.

So you DO put your faith in science.

Except it isn't really faith, because we actually understand how medicines produce the effects that they do.

But you turn to science to help you when you said you don't put your faith in it. So there's that...

Making use of technology in this life and relying on it for physical needs is in no way the same as putting my faith in my Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ both in this life, and in the life to come. Yes, I recognize there are tools I use every day, but they are just that, tools. They are temporary, prone to break, and will one day wear out and be thrown in the trash. They are nothing I put my faith in, they are conveniences, for which I'm quite thankful, but my faith is in Jesus.

Unlike the mountain climber that has faith that the harness he uses to stop from falling to his death isn't going to break, or that the medical treatment you take to save your life is actually going to work...

God is outside the realm of science. Not all truth can be discovered only in the study of the physical, empirical world.

If it has no effect on the real world, how do you know it exists?

Science is limited, I dismiss the idea that it has all of the answers.

No one has said that science has all the answers. But science has proven itself to be the best answer finding technique around.

Can you give me a single example of something that once had a scientific explanation, but now the best answer is non-scientific?

 

[Robert Palase]

God has the answer for every question and the solution for every problem in your life and in my life. In fact He has the answer for every question that anyone will ever ask and the solution for every problem that anyone will ever have.

If that's true why oh why does your God always keep the information all to himself?
Don't you think it's strange that if you ask your God a question that you don't know the answer to, neither will he? if you don't find the answer you tell yourself that God didn't answer but if you do find the answer you give your God all the credit.

 

[Kylie]

Most people do change behaviors over time, but Christians change mostly because of the spirit led moral imperative, not self-preservation, social pressure, or fear of consequences, although there are also some of those reasons thrown in as well. Also most people change behavior for their own benefit, not the benefit of others. Maturing Christians continue to repent of even small bad behaviors that harm others and they do this over a lifetime. Most people think they are 'good enough' if they don't go to jail, and leave it at that, leaving a trail of thoughtless and careless behaviors in their wake.

So if an atheist changes their behaviour, which one of these is it? If I change, is it spirit led (which I doubt, since I don't believe that spirits exist), or is it because I am doing it for my own benefit, not caring for the benefit of others?

 

[TLK Valentine]

God has the answer for every question and the solution for every problem in your life and in my life. In fact He has the answer for every question that anyone will ever ask and the solution for every problem that anyone will ever have. This is why I am a Christian, I was looking for answers and solutions. I looked everywhere I could find to look and then finally I looked to the Bible and finally found what I was looking for. If you reach out to man for help you better be careful he does not cut your arm off. If you reach out to God for help then He is there for you. I really wonder what the skeptics and scoffers do in their time of trouble.

And now, because you have God's ear, you have all the answers and solutions, correct?

 

[amariselle]

Really? You think the Bible is the same as a rational argument pointing out the logical fallacies that exist in Pascal's Wager?



So you DO put your faith in science.

Except it isn't really faith, because we actually understand how medicines produce the effects that they do.

But you turn to science to help you when you said you don't put your faith in it. So there's that...

Unlike the mountain climber that has faith that the harness he uses to stop from falling to his death isn't going to break, or that the medical treatment you take to save your life is actually going to work...

If it has no effect on the real world, how do you know it exists?

No one has said that science has all the answers. But science has proven itself to be the best answer finding technique around.

Can you give me a single example of something that once had a scientific explanation, but now the best answer is non-scientific?

The problem is we are talking about two completely different kinds of faith here. Science may be great for this life, and technological inventions may be quite integral to saving a physical life, but none of it has any bearing whatsoever on eternal life.

This world and everything in it will pass away, but God and His words will never pass away.

I do not put my faith in human knowledge or discoveries, however much I may appreciate them in this life, my faith is in my Saviour who has saved me and promised me eternal life with Him after this life is over with.

 

[joshua 1 9]

And now, because you have God's ear, you have all the answers and solutions, correct?

I have received a LOT more with God then what I had with science. This is the reason I became a Christian. Science did not have answers and solutions. God has all the answers and all the solutions. That is why we need to learn to do things God's way and NOT man's way.

"There is a way that seems right to a man, but its end is the way to death." Proverb14:12

 

[TLK Valentine]

The problem is we are talking about two completely different kinds of faith here. Science may be great for this life, and technological inventions may be quite integral to saving a physical life, but none of it has any bearing whatsoever on eternal life.

The very existence of which is a leap of faith.

This world and everything in it will pass away, but God and His words will never pass away.

I do not put my faith in human knowledge or discoveries, however much I may appreciate them in this life, my faith is in my Saviour who has saved me and promised me eternal life with Him after this life is over with.

And yet, God chose to reveal himself through humans... and through their knowledge and discoveries, compiled in the Bible, that led you to your faith position.

Sounds like it'd be more accurate to say you do not put your faith in human knowledge or discoveries on certain topics, but you do on others... and that's fine. Just be honest with yourself about it.

 

[TLK Valentine]

I have received a LOT more with God then what I had with science. This is the reason I became a Christian. Science did not have answers and solutions. God has all the answers and all the solutions. That is why we need to learn to do things God's way and NOT man's way.

"There is a way that seems right to a man, but its end is the way to death." Proverb14:12

God has all the answers and solutions. You have God. Now you have all the answers and solutions. Yes or no?

 

[KWCrazy]

This is definitely one of the most darndest things I've ever heard a fundie say (especially the bits of the brain that work in Christians but not non-Christians - ROFL), and needs to go up on FSTDT, if anyone has a login and can do the honours...

I believe it is a violation of forum rules to plagiarize from this forum and post to other forums, like that trash website.

 

[KWCrazy]

I enjoy debating with the more fundamentalist science-deniers though, I find them to be an interesting phenomena.

I've never met a science denier.
There are many of us who do not believe certain wrong and improvable theories of science, but that is no more a rejection of science than the disbelief in the claims of alchemists. Galileo rejected the established theories of science. As it turned out, he was right. Science, you see, is a field of study focusing on the physical world around us. It can neither prove nor disprove the supernatural. Scientists are people; no more infallible than other people. If they spend 20 years being taught that man evolved by professors they respect they will tend to believe that man evolved. If these same people were raised to be experts in the Scripture and had given their lives to the Lord, they would understand that man was created by God.

It's easy to see that if fruit flies eradiated for 50,000 generations did not evolve than evolution is not a universal driving force of nature. It's easy to see that if adaptation is a selection of specific traits over other less advantageous traits that adaptation is then a conservative process. These truths are readily provable and yet many practitioners of science deny them. Who, then, is the science denier? By the way. I also denied in the late 60's that we were 10 years away from another ice age. Who was smarter then; those who believed or those who did not?

 

[amariselle]

God has all the answers and solutions. You have God. Now you have all the answers and solutions. Yes or no?

No. God is still the One with all the answers and solutions. When we "have God", that is accept Him as our one true Lord, we come to fully understand our limitations as created beings. His ways are higher than our ways.

And actually, it was mankind's decision to attempt to be like God and know as He knows that led to sin and brokenness in the first place, and this has been the cause of all the evil and corruption we see in the world.

The created cannot know everything as the Creator does. He is far and above us. But He has given us His word and His Spirit, that we may have guidance and discernment in this life. And most importantly, He sent His Son to the world, to teach us and to redeem us from our sins, so we can once again be in right standing with God, not left hopeless in our sins.

 

[Robert Palase]

This world and everything in it will pass away, but God and His words will never pass away.

This world and everything in it will pass away for you the second after you die, your brain will shut down and everything that is you will cease to exist, you will exist in the same way you existed for the billions of years before you were born.
This life is the only life you are going to get no matter how much you wish it wasn't, how do I know? please tell me this?
what else in your life has or will happen simply because you want it to?

 

[amariselle]

This world and everything in it will pass away for you the second after you die, your brain will shut down and everything that is you will cease to exist, you will exist in the same way you existed for the billions of years before you were born.
This life is the only life you are going to get no matter how much you wish it wasn't, how do I know? please tell me this?
what else in your life has or will happen simply because you want it to?

How do you know this life is all there is?

 

[OldWiseGuy]

You noted in an earlier post "I want the creation to be pretty much the same when I wake up each morning", which seem to me that you're okay with a static set of beliefs about reality. I don't think I can dissuade you from that position, but I feel it is closed minded.

You will note that I do allow for some daily changes in that statement (pausing to give you time to reread the statement). My point is that I want to wake up on the same planet that I went to sleep on.

I am close minded about certain fundamental things (I am after all a conservative). Our differences stem mainly from the different spheres of thought and actions that we are involved in. I operate more at ground level, where I see the need for prioritizing the fundamental aspects of life. Science deals in the heady upper atmosphere. So we are really in different worlds even on the same planet.

 

[amariselle]

The very existence of which is a leap of faith.

Many things in life require faith, including science. Human beings do not have all the answers about anything, there are always things we don't know for sure, and there are many things science simply cannot answer at all.

And yet, God chose to reveal himself through humans... and through their knowledge and discoveries, compiled in the Bible, that led you to your faith position.

The Bible is not a compilation of human knowledge and discoveries, like a science textbook is. It is the very word of God, written by people, yes, but inspired by God. (2 Timothy3:16-17)

Sounds like it'd be more accurate to say you do not put your faith in human knowledge or discoveries on certain topics, but you do on others... and that's fine. Just be honest with yourself about it.

Of course, this is what I've been saying. I respect earthly knowledge, discoveries, and technological advancements as they pertain to my life here, but I do not put my faith in these temporary things as I do in my Saviour. Because, no matter how smart we think we are, or how many advancements we make, we do not live forever on this earth. Each and every one of us will die physically, unless Jesus returns before we die. Science cannot stop this, and it cannot save our souls. Therefore I do not place my faith in it, I place my faith in Jesus who has saved me.