Do you agree or disagree with this statement?

[TLK Valentine]

People always assume I (and all other Christians) haven't learned about any other religions and that I haven't explored what they teach. I actually have.

With Pascal's Wager, all one needs to learn is who has the worst punishment for non-believers.

 

[amariselle]

With Pascal's Wager, all one needs to learn is who has the worst punishment for non-believers.

I have not come to my faith out of fear, but out of the realization that I need a Saviour because I am a sinner and cannot save myself. I need forgiveness for all the wrongs I've done and all the mistakes I've made.

 

[SteveB28]

I have not come to my faith out of fear, but out of the realization that I need a Saviour because I am a sinner and cannot save myself. I need forgiveness for all the wrongs I've done and all the mistakes I've made.

But you chose the wrong one. Wotan is the One True God! And he gets very, very angry with those who choose other gods to worship.

I feel so sorry for you.

 

[amariselle]

But you chose the wrong one. Wotan is the One True God! And he gets very, very angry with those who choose other gods to worship.

I feel so sorry for you.

Your sarcastic and belittling comments about the Christian faith are in direct violation of the rules of this forum.

Blasphemy and Contempt of Christianity
It is considered blasphemy to insult or mock Christianity or any part of the Trinity-Father (God), Son (Jesus) and the Holy Spirit. Honest debate about the nature of God and Christian Theology is allowed, but derogatory remarks are not. Contemptuous remarks regarding Christianity or Christian practices are not allowed.

Flaming and Goading
● Please treat all members with respect and courtesy through civil dialogue.
● Do not personally attack other members or groups of members on CF. Address only the content of the post and not the poster.
● NO Goading. This includes images, cartoons, or smileys clearly meant to goad.
● Stating or implying that another Christian member, or group of members, are not Christian is not allowed.
● If you are flamed, do not respond in-kind. Alert staff to the situation by utilizing the report button.

http://www.christianforums.com/help/rules/

These forums are a place where the Christian faith can be shared and discussed, not a place for games, and insults.

 

[TLK Valentine]

I have not come to my faith out of fear,

And yet, you spoke to me about "what if you're wrong?" and "devastating consequences..." Would you have me come to faith out of fear?

but out of the realization that I need a Saviour because I am a sinner and cannot save myself.

Save yourself from what?

I need forgiveness for all the wrongs I've done and all the mistakes I've made.

Have you forgiven yourself yet? Have you taken steps to correct those mistakes beyond asking forgiveness?

 

[SteveB28]

Your sarcastic and belittling comments about the Christian faith are in direct violation of the rules of this forum.

Blasphemy and Contempt of Christianity
It is considered blasphemy to insult or mock Christianity or any part of the Trinity-Father (God), Son (Jesus) and the Holy Spirit. Honest debate about the nature of God and Christian Theology is allowed, but derogatory remarks are not. Contemptuous remarks regarding Christianity or Christian practices are not allowed.

Flaming and Goading
● Please treat all members with respect and courtesy through civil dialogue.
● Do not personally attack other members or groups of members on CF. Address only the content of the post and not the poster.
● NO Goading. This includes images, cartoons, or smileys clearly meant to goad.
● Stating or implying that another Christian member, or group of members, are not Christian is not allowed.
● If you are flamed, do not respond in-kind. Alert staff to the situation by utilizing the report button.

http://www.christianforums.com/help/rules/

These forums are a place where the Christian faith can be shared and discussed, not a place for games, and insults.

YOU made the claim that you have made the right choice in believing in a god.

What if you've chosen the wrong god!?

 

[Jimmy D]

Your sarcastic and belittling comments about the Christian faith are in direct violation of the rules of this forum.

Blasphemy and Contempt of Christianity
It is considered blasphemy to insult or mock Christianity or any part of the Trinity-Father (God), Son (Jesus) and the Holy Spirit. Honest debate about the nature of God and Christian Theology is allowed, but derogatory remarks are not. Contemptuous remarks regarding Christianity or Christian practices are not allowed.

Flaming and Goading
● Please treat all members with respect and courtesy through civil dialogue.
● Do not personally attack other members or groups of members on CF. Address only the content of the post and not the poster.
● NO Goading. This includes images, cartoons, or smileys clearly meant to goad.
● Stating or implying that another Christian member, or group of members, are not Christian is not allowed.
● If you are flamed, do not respond in-kind. Alert staff to the situation by utilizing the report button.

http://www.christianforums.com/help/rules/

These forums are a place where the Christian faith can be shared and discussed, not a place for games, and insults.

I agree.

As far as I can see you've been open and honest about your beliefs, I don't think you deserve such a grilling about your faith. I'm not even sure why this thread is here anyway, it seems to be a Christianity bashing thread rather than anything to do with creation or evolution.

 

[amariselle]

And yet, you spoke to me about "what if you're wrong?" and "devastating consequences..." Would you have me come to faith out of fear?

Fear of the Lord is the only fear that matters. And it isn't abject terror, it's a realization that He is a holy and righteous God, the Creator of all and therefore in absolute authority over all.

Save yourself from what?

I do not save myself from anything.

Have you forgiven yourself yet? Have you taken steps to correct those mistakes beyond asking forgiveness?

Of course, am I perfect? No.

 

[amariselle]

YOU made the claim that you have made the right choice in believing in a god.

Of course I believe I have chosen the right God, this is a Christian forum, what other viewpoint from Christians do you expect?

What if you've chosen the wrong god!?

I had already given you my honest answer to this question, at which point you chose to resort to sarcastic insults. I have no interest in playing such games. Everyone deserves respect here.

 

[TLK Valentine]

I agree.

As far as I can see you've been open and honest about your beliefs, I don't think you deserve such a grilling about your faith. I'm not even sure why this thread is here anyway, it seems to be a Christianity bashing thread rather than anything to do with creation or evolution.

Well, science should be the search for truth, regardless of where it might lead. Whether or not religion -- be it individual beliefs, or social indoctrination -- is interfering with that goal is worth discussing...

 

[amariselle]

I agree.

As far as I can see you've been open and honest about your beliefs, I don't think you deserve such a grilling about your faith. I'm not even sure why this thread is here anyway, it seems to be a Christianity bashing thread rather than anything to do with creation or evolution.

I agree. In many ways I expect nothing less, Jesus did warn us the world would hate us. The fact remains however that there are forum rules in place so that people can have honest and respectful dialogue and learn from one another. Many here do not seem in any way interested in doing so, but would rather play games and go round and round in endless, circular arguments. I sometimes wonder why they even signed up to a Christian forum in the first place. They already seem to have all the answers they need and are absolutely convinced that Christians believe in a bunch of nonsense.

There are plenty of Atheist forums for this kind of thing, why bring it here?

 

[SteveB28]

Of course I believe I have chosen the right God, this is a Christian forum, what other viewpoint from Christians do you expect?



I had already given you my honest answer to this question, at which point you chose to resort to sarcastic insults. I have no interest in playing such games. Everyone deserves respect here.

Just remember, YOU asked the "what if you're wrong" question. Don't squeal because you get the question turned back on you.

 

[TLK Valentine]

Fear of the Lord is the only fear that matters. And it isn't abject terror, it's a realization that He is a holy and righteous God, the Creator of all and therefore in absolute authority over all.

So you did come to faith out of fear -- and you would ask me to do likewise.

I do not save myself from anything.

I'll rephrase the question: What do you need saving from?

Of course, am I perfect? No.

Is "perfection" even possible? Or is it an unattainable goal that we nonetheless still strive for in our search for self-improvement?

 

[SteveB28]

I agree. In many ways I expect nothing less, Jesus did warn us the world would hate us. The fact remains however that there are forum rules in place so that people can have honest and respectful dialogue and learn from one another. Many here do not seem in any way interested in doing so, but would rather play games and go round and round in endless, circular arguments. I sometimes wonder why they even signed up to a Christian forum in the first place. They already seem to have all the answers they need and are absolutely convinced that Christians believe in a bunch of nonsense.

There are plenty of Atheist forums for this kind of thing, why bring it here?

Because we are invited to be here. If you simply want to exist in an echo chamber, perhaps you should restrict yourself to the Christians Only sections.

 

[amariselle]

Well, science should be the search for truth, regardless of where it might lead. Whether or not religion -- be it individual beliefs, or social indoctrination -- is interfering with that goal is worth discussing...

Some may want to discuss it, and they have every right to do so. However, not everyone here is interested in respectful discussion, and that is the issue.

 

[amariselle]

Because we are invited to be here. If you simply want to exist in an echo chamber, perhaps you should restrict yourself to the Christians Only sections.

You are invited to be here, what you are NOT invited to do is insult the Christian faith, the Bible etc. And I am tired of hearing that Christians should stay in the "Christian Only" sections of these forums. This entire site is a Christian forum and although non-Christians are welcome and encouraged to participate, it is not acceptable for them to then attack Christians and belittle their beliefs.

This forum is an outreach, a place for honest and respectful discussion about the Christian faith. If you already believe you have all the answers about what Christians think and believe, and if you don't want to encounter any Christian viewpoints (and cannot refrain from personal attacks and insults) there are plenty of other forums where you can do this.

This forum is not one of them.

 

[amariselle]

So you did come to faith out of fear -- and you would ask me to do likewise.

No, I came to my faith out of the realization that I need Jesus and I am lost without Him. I ask you to do nothing. I have never at any point forced my beliefs on you or anyone else, I simply share the hope that I have. You have every right to reject it, you are not a robot and are not required to agree with me.

I'll rephrase the question: What do you need saving from?

Myself.

Is "perfection" even possible? Or is it an unattainable goal that we nonetheless still strive for in our search for self-improvement?

No, perfection isn't possible, although I do believe that I can strive to be more and more like Jesus. I am still a sinful and imperfect human being though.

 

[amariselle]

Just remember, YOU asked the "what if you're wrong" question. Don't squeal because you get the question turned back on you.

I asked the question and clearly explained I have also asked it of myself, many times actually.

 

[SteveB28]

You are invited to be here, what you are NOT invited to do is insult the Christian faith, the Bible etc. And I am tired of hearing that Christians should stay in the "Christian Only" sections of these forums. This entire site is a Christian forum and although non-Christians are welcome and encouraged to participate, it is not acceptable for them to then attack Christians and belittle their beliefs.

This forum is an outreach, a place for honest and respectful discussion about the Christian faith. If you already believe you have all the answers about what Christians think and believe, and if you don't want to encounter any Christian viewpoints (and cannot refrain from personal attacks and insults) there are plenty of other forums where you can do this.

This forum is not one of them.

It is also a place for DEBATE. Read the rules again. And you don't get to hide behind your privileged position, throw out your "what if you're wrong" barbs and not expect to have them equally challenged.

 

[TLK Valentine]

Myself.

You're saying that you can't save yourself from yourself? What happens if you fail?

No, perfection isn't possible, although I do believe that I can strive to be more and more like Jesus. I am still a sinful and imperfect human being though.

Sounds like you've been given an impossible task and you know it... and when you fail, you're expected to ask forgiveness...