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Do we want to 'be taken' or 'left behind'?
- Thread starter cf4rc
- Start date
B1inHim
LOVE one another
The plagues of Egypt were under the OLD covenant.
The new covenant is really quite simple. God wants us to have a relationship with Him. Obeying His laws is fundamental to that relationship. The way God has communicated His laws has varied, but the laws remain the same. He related His laws verbally to the patriarchs (see Genesis 26:5 where God said Abraham obeyed his voice).
To Israel, God wrote them on stones and in the book of the law. In the new covenant, He writes them in the mind and on the heart.
The new covenant provides the motivation to obey His laws, extends forgiveness when we don't, and results in an intimate relationship with God for all eternity. We all look forward to the time when we will fully experience the benefits of the new covenant as eternal spirit members of God's family.
There was no promise of not having to endure the plagues of Egypt.
The following is a prophesied promise that completely describe the results of many of our "end";
Rev.7:9 After this I looked, and there before me was a great multitude that no one could count, from every nation, tribe, people and language, standing before the throne and before the Lamb. They were wearing white robes and were holding palm branches in their hands. 10 And they cried out in a loud voice:
“Salvation belongs to our God,
who sits on the throne,
and to the Lamb.”
11 All the angels were standing around the throne and around the elders and the four living creatures. They fell down on their faces before the throne and worshiped God, 12 saying:
“Amen!
Praise and glory
and wisdom and thanks and honor
and power and strength
be to our God for ever and ever.
Amen!”
13 Then one of the elders asked me, “These in white robes—who are they, and where did they come from?”
14 I answered, “Sir, you know.”
And he said, “These are they who have come out of the great tribulation; they have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb. 15 Therefore,
“they are before the throne of God
and serve him day and night in his temple;
and he who sits on the throne
will shelter them with his presence.
16 ‘Never again will they hunger;
never again will they thirst.
The sun will not beat down on them,’
nor any scorching heat.
17 For the Lamb at the center of the throne
will be their shepherd;
‘he will lead them to springs of living water.’
‘And God will wipe away every tear from their eyes.’”
When did this end take place????????????
“These are they who have come out of the great tribulation…”
This is pretty simple.
Matthew 24:13 but he who stands firm to the end will be saved.
Helps to endure…
Make the kingdom of Heaven your top priority.
“ . . . Seek first His kingdom and His righteousness, . . ." (Mat 6:33)
[FONT="]"[/FONT] "Seek the LORD while He may be found; call on Him while he is near . . .." (Isa 55:6, 7)
Stay in constant communication with God.
“ . . . Jesus told his disciples . . . that they should always pray and not give up." (Luke 18:1)
[FONT="]"[/FONT] "Be joyful always; pray continually; . . ." (1 Thess 5:16-18)
Take God into your innermost thoughts. Invite Him to be there, to listen in on all the babbling of your mind.
Include Him in your entire plan making, your shopping, your grief—everything!
Make Him your conscious Counselor to guide you in every decision. Then you cannot stray, for you hold the Master's hand, and He holds yours.
Never let guilt for a single sin or the repeated slipping on an habitual "banana peel" destroy you. Take them to God for purging.
[FONT="]"[/FONT] "If we confess our sins, He . . . will forgive . . . ." (1 John 1:9)
[FONT="]"[/FONT] ". . . God . . . will not let you be tempted beyond what you can bear. But when you are tempted, he will also provide a way out so that you can stand up under it." (1 Cor 10:13)
Make sure that your life is described by Christ's beatitude: “ . . . he that endures to the end shall be saved." (Matt. 10:22 KJV)
I plan to endure through continual communion with Christ. I'm determined to stand "firm to the end." Come; make a pledge to God along with me:
"By God's grace, I will endure to the end!"
What end?
Be it my life, the gathering in Rev.7: 9-17 or Rev. 19/20.
"By God's grace, I will endure to the end!"
By and in His Love,
Brother Jerry
The new covenant is really quite simple. God wants us to have a relationship with Him. Obeying His laws is fundamental to that relationship. The way God has communicated His laws has varied, but the laws remain the same. He related His laws verbally to the patriarchs (see Genesis 26:5 where God said Abraham obeyed his voice).
To Israel, God wrote them on stones and in the book of the law. In the new covenant, He writes them in the mind and on the heart.
The new covenant provides the motivation to obey His laws, extends forgiveness when we don't, and results in an intimate relationship with God for all eternity. We all look forward to the time when we will fully experience the benefits of the new covenant as eternal spirit members of God's family.
There was no promise of not having to endure the plagues of Egypt.
The following is a prophesied promise that completely describe the results of many of our "end";
Rev.7:9 After this I looked, and there before me was a great multitude that no one could count, from every nation, tribe, people and language, standing before the throne and before the Lamb. They were wearing white robes and were holding palm branches in their hands. 10 And they cried out in a loud voice:
“Salvation belongs to our God,
who sits on the throne,
and to the Lamb.”
11 All the angels were standing around the throne and around the elders and the four living creatures. They fell down on their faces before the throne and worshiped God, 12 saying:
“Amen!
Praise and glory
and wisdom and thanks and honor
and power and strength
be to our God for ever and ever.
Amen!”
13 Then one of the elders asked me, “These in white robes—who are they, and where did they come from?”
14 I answered, “Sir, you know.”
And he said, “These are they who have come out of the great tribulation; they have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb. 15 Therefore,
“they are before the throne of God
and serve him day and night in his temple;
and he who sits on the throne
will shelter them with his presence.
16 ‘Never again will they hunger;
never again will they thirst.
The sun will not beat down on them,’
nor any scorching heat.
17 For the Lamb at the center of the throne
will be their shepherd;
‘he will lead them to springs of living water.’
‘And God will wipe away every tear from their eyes.’”
When did this end take place????????????
“These are they who have come out of the great tribulation…”
This is pretty simple.
Matthew 24:13 but he who stands firm to the end will be saved.
Helps to endure…
Make the kingdom of Heaven your top priority.
“ . . . Seek first His kingdom and His righteousness, . . ." (Mat 6:33)
[FONT="]"[/FONT] "Seek the LORD while He may be found; call on Him while he is near . . .." (Isa 55:6, 7)
Stay in constant communication with God.
“ . . . Jesus told his disciples . . . that they should always pray and not give up." (Luke 18:1)
[FONT="]"[/FONT] "Be joyful always; pray continually; . . ." (1 Thess 5:16-18)
Take God into your innermost thoughts. Invite Him to be there, to listen in on all the babbling of your mind.
Include Him in your entire plan making, your shopping, your grief—everything!
Make Him your conscious Counselor to guide you in every decision. Then you cannot stray, for you hold the Master's hand, and He holds yours.
Never let guilt for a single sin or the repeated slipping on an habitual "banana peel" destroy you. Take them to God for purging.
[FONT="]"[/FONT] "If we confess our sins, He . . . will forgive . . . ." (1 John 1:9)
[FONT="]"[/FONT] ". . . God . . . will not let you be tempted beyond what you can bear. But when you are tempted, he will also provide a way out so that you can stand up under it." (1 Cor 10:13)
Make sure that your life is described by Christ's beatitude: “ . . . he that endures to the end shall be saved." (Matt. 10:22 KJV)
I plan to endure through continual communion with Christ. I'm determined to stand "firm to the end." Come; make a pledge to God along with me:
"By God's grace, I will endure to the end!"
What end?
Be it my life, the gathering in Rev.7: 9-17 or Rev. 19/20.
"By God's grace, I will endure to the end!"
By and in His Love,
Brother Jerry
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Peace to you…Please consider and contemplate on this…
Posted Reply by B1inHim…
Hebrews 12:1 is talking about a mass multitude, yes and there is no "s" at the end of that word cloud in that verse.
I agree...
IF the same person who wrote Hebrews that wrote 1&2 Thessalonians wanted what was written in Hebrews to mean the same thing that he wrote in Thessalonians, he would have said the same thing, verbatim.
You would think so...and…the person/writer may have...
Know this...the translators of our bibles could add to or take away from whatever they wanted at any time they wanted...and what we read is what they decided to leave as is...add to...or take away from the scriptures they were translating...
The way to overcome this possible problem is to find that imperative beginning subject ofthe teaching -what it is about...and the object for that teaching - the purpose for why it is given to us…and follow those guidelines at all times in order to understand that teaching…
and
then use the lexiconsfor each individual word or phrase in a verse…
to find the biblical usage options and choose the proper one, or ones, that best fit the continuity of the verse and the beginning subject of and the object for the teaching...
He did not.
Maybe...maybe not...
(YES, I know that we cannot prove that Apostle Paul wrote Hebrews and that it may have possible been written by Luke or Barnabas or even Apollos.
An entirely DIFFERENT thread, so please do not make a stand about this here)
It really matters little, if at all, who the writer was…but rather the important question of...What is the subject of and object for the verses that run in tandem to present what is taught at the time? No matter who God inspired to give us that teaching!
……BIG MISTAKES are now made in the Newer Translations......
They change many references to an angel in Revelation 14 to a reference to Christ.
This is done even in my NKJV bible...for example…
The KJV does not capitalize he, his or him in any of these verses…and they are correct not to do so…
IN Revelation 14 the setting begins on Mt Zion with the 144,000 ONLY.
I agree...
Then the angels give their messages.
I agree...it is angels giving the proclamations...
THEN the Son of Man is sitting on a cloud, not a mass multitude.
BIG MISTAKE!
I disagree…that the Son of man is sitting on a cloud…
I agree…that it is a cloud that is sat on...not a multitude...
It is not the Son of man...it is[one] sat like the Son of man...
Revelation 14:14; And I looked, and behold a white cloud and upon the cloud [one] sat like (G3664; similar, resembling - the one coming next) unto the Son of man man having on his (an angels) head a golden crown; and in his (an angels) hand a sharp sickle.
14:15; And another angel came out of the temple, crying with a loud voice to him (the angel in 14:14) that sat on the cloud,Thrust in thy sickle, and reap (this is an order from one angel to another angel): for the time is come(G2064;is to come; is to come into being) for thee to reap; for the harvest of the earth is ripe.
14:16; And he (the angel) that sat on the cloud thrust in his sickle on the earth; and the earth was reaped;
he...the angel that sat on the cloud does what he was ordered to do by the other angel!
Ask yourself; Would an angel be giving an order of any kind to Christ Himself?...I don't believe so...do you? And, if you do that is a BIG MISTAKE!
And He swings the sickle and the earth is harvested.
BIG MISTAKE!
disagree...He, Christ, does not do anything that happens here! It is the angels...
It does NOT say that He came down to the planet and harvested the earth.
He harvested it from a cloud.
BIG MISTAKE!
I agree…He, Christ, nor the angels came down to the planet to harvest the earth.
I disagree...He, Christ, does not do the harvesting of earth from heaven or sit on the cloud. It is the angels!
From 14:13-20 everything happens by angels…nothing happens through Christ at this time...that we are told of in these passages…
The harvest is done from the heavens and the reaped harvest is gathered there, in heaven.
I agree...the harvest does happen from the heavens…
I disagree...those on earth are reaped in the harvest but are not gathered to heaven itself at this time…
These actions by the angels are the Great Tribulation…
Then, Christ and the multitudes with Him return to earth and we that are alive and remain on earth are ‘changed’ to gather together with them…to stay here on earth for the millennium…
Christ does His harvesting from the midst of heaven (G3321;mid-heaven; the highest point in the heavens, which the sun occupies at noon, where what is done can be seen and heard by all; as where the 3 angels give their proclamations) when He returns at His second coming.
Peace and love…God Bless
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Peace to you Brother Jerry...my friend...
to that and of course you will...God's grace is all over you...absolutely with you and what you have been blessed to do through Him...such as your wonderful and inspiring posts here with us...If, you and others of us are always open to and desire correction from God...He will provide us a way to continue to do His work to the end of this age and forever!
The point I was attempting to make clear in the previous post is that the Word as we see and read it in many new translations of our bibles to English is not the inerrant Word of God as a majority of us take it to be...myself included for the longest time...
but, I should add that no translation to English, old or new, is the inerrant Word of God!
And, we being diligent students of the Word, seeking the truth of His Word, may still be misled as to what "God Said" when we simply accept what the translators have presented as fact...when it may not be...
I do not presume to know for sure why the translators have made these 'changes'...an agenda maybe?...but I do know that what they teach, especially through the many newer translations, can lead us to BIG MISTAKES in learning the truth that we seek so diligently.
You, I and all others of God want to know for ourselves the truth through knowledge and wisdom so we can also share that truth to others when we have the chance...such as here on CF...
I wish our bibles could be considered in the same way as prophets...once found to be wrong in one instance...makes them not trustworthy and therefore NOT a prophet of God...
but, it is not that simple with the bible...for every single concordance of a translation, the translation itself and any lexicon is wrong at times...just some wrong MUCH MORE than others...
And, I have found that many times we must get past what we think is the truth because of others and go deeper into our own personal study to see if they are right...
The way I have found to do that was stated in my previous post but will repeat now...knowing that concordances and the lexicons in the original languages are not perfect...but, at least give us another source to use, if we know the subject and object to follow, to find the answer to rather "what they say" is right or wrong.
I now finish with these personal opinions...hopefully backed up by my previous post on Revelation 14, as an example, of the BIG MISTAKES made in many newer tanslations of our bible...
DUMP THEM or at least KNOW when continuing to use them that THEY ARE FAR TO OFTEN NOT TO BE TRUSTED...as I have found it to be in my NKJV bible...
You are a gifted man of God...Brother Jerry...so I ask you to please use this info, for at least a while, and see what you see. Rather it is truly worthwhile to make a change in the bible you have chosen to use...or not...for sharing the truth in your teachings to others...
I have come back to edit this post because I want to add what I believe is a great place to go for study of the Word...http://www.blueletterbible.org/
peace and love...God Bless
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OOPS...sure don't know what I did to post this...
Was not ready yet by any means...
Good-bye post...
Was not ready yet by any means...
Good-bye post...
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Big Mistake???????
Consider this..............
1Thes 4
16For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: 17Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
Gods word says a rapture will happen with the voice of the archangel.
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zeke37
IMO...
i think you misunderstood...
he is saying that in Rev14:15, an angel gives an ORDER to another angel,
the one with the sickle who is like the Son of God in verse14, prob. Michael...(that's what his name actually means)
again, he says that the one with the sickle is not Christ...
because another angel gave the one with the sickle an ORDER...
since angels are involved, your post really does not counter anything he said...
whether he is right or wrong about his opinion
plus, we already see the Lamb on Mt Zion with the gathered elect, at the beginning of the chapter.
he is saying that in Rev14:15, an angel gives an ORDER to another angel,
the one with the sickle who is like the Son of God in verse14, prob. Michael...(that's what his name actually means)
again, he says that the one with the sickle is not Christ...
because another angel gave the one with the sickle an ORDER...
since angels are involved, your post really does not counter anything he said...
whether he is right or wrong about his opinion
plus, we already see the Lamb on Mt Zion with the gathered elect, at the beginning of the chapter.
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No, I didn't misunderstand. I realize he is saying it is an angel speaking to an angel.
I'm saying that is not correct.
And if you already see the Lamb on Mt. Zion, maybe that should give you a clue about something else.
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yedida
Ruth Messianic, joining Israel, Na'aseh v'nishma!
Zeke, Be1
You guys are both seeing something in common and are pushing it aside for your differences!! You both are seeing the believers with the Lamb!! Is there anything more important that that? Do we really care where we are as long as we're with Him? That's what's important, not worth losing fellowship over, for sure.
You guys are both seeing something in common and are pushing it aside for your differences!! You both are seeing the believers with the Lamb!! Is there anything more important that that? Do we really care where we are as long as we're with Him? That's what's important, not worth losing fellowship over, for sure.
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B1inHim
LOVE one another
That is so true.
I plan on going up to be with Him and he plans on staying here for Him.
BUT, no matter what we end up doing we obviously do plan on being with our Lord.
I am ready and that is all that matters.
Be it after the 6th seal or ALL the way to the literal end like some believe.
And you are so right.
So many of us in here get into such heated debates that we loose sight of who we are together.
Thank you.
Love,
Brother Jerry
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yedida
Ruth Messianic, joining Israel, Na'aseh v'nishma!
Shalom y'all
You guys may be familiar with this song, and/or familiar with Paul (but we Messies claim him, lol). Thought you might enjoy the song anyway....
YouTube - Days of Elijah - Paul Wilbur
You guys may be familiar with this song, and/or familiar with Paul (but we Messies claim him, lol). Thought you might enjoy the song anyway....
YouTube - Days of Elijah - Paul Wilbur
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