clouds....see Heb12:1 (mass multitude)...every eye shall see His Coming
air....see 1Cor15's mystery change (breath of life/spiritual body)
The Lord is Coming here...we are not going there. (Zec14, Rev14)
after the entire tribulation is over, after Satan has been allowed his short time (his wrath),
Christ comes with the righteous dead, and raises them here first...
and when He gets here, He shall change those of us who are alive at that time
Hebrews 12:1 is talking about a mass multitude, yes and there is no "s" at the end of that word cloud in that verse.
IF the same person who wrote Hebrews that wrote 1&2 Thessalonians wanted what was written in Hebrews to mean the same thing that he wrote in Thessalonians, he would have said the same thing, verbatim.
He did not.
(YES, I know that we cannot prove that Apostle Paul wrote Hebrews and that it may have possible been written by Luke or Barnabas or even Apollos.
An entirely DIFFERENT thread, so please do not make a stand about this here)
IN Revelation 14 the setting begins on Mt Zion with the 144,000 ONLY.
Then the angels give their messages.
THEN the Son of Man is sitting on a cloud, not a mass multitude.
And He swings the sickle and the earth is harvested.
It does NOT say that He came down to the planet and harvested the earth.
He harvested it from a cloud.
In the air.
The harvest is done from the heavens and the reaped harvest is gathered there, in heaven.
What some are teaching (in an nut shell) is that Lord Jesus starts out on Mt Zion, goes UP to the cloud and "harpazoes" the Body and then comes back to the earth right then.
Not even in the Vulgate do we find any of this type of itinerary happening at any time when it comes to this subject.
The word "harpazo" is the word used in the letter to the Thessalonians.
The root of the word is seize.
The applications for this word does not mean in any way, form or fashion as to be seized as some are endorsing as in being captured.
The applications for the word "seized" are;
KJV catch, 1; catch away, 2; catch up, 4; pluck, 2; pull, 1; take by force,
NAS carry off, 1; caught, 4; snatch, 2; snatched...away, 1; snatches, 1; snatches away, 1; snatching, 1; taken...away...by force, 1; take...by force, 2;
Captured is out numbered 2 to 1 by taken, snatched, pulled and plucked away.
The same type of defense that some here uses to define the word "harpazo" as being "seized" ONLY.
IS the SAME thing that someone else is trying to say about "falling away" in the second letter to the Thessalonians, that “falling away” means that we are departing from the planet.
Apostle Paul used the word “harpazo” when he described what happened to him when he was caught UP to the third heaven.
He went UP, period.
We do NOT stay here as “left behind” or seized in place.
We come out of the Great Tribulation as the Word tells us in Rev. 7:14 and go on to our service to Lord God from there.
WE leave in the Ark and the sinners are “left behind”.
WE leave to go the Wedding Feast and the foolish are left outside.
The virgins who were ready went in with Him to the wedding banquet. And the door was shut.
Went.
“Falling away” from the faith, not depart before the bad stuff happens.
“Harpazoed” up and away with the Lord among the clouds in the air.
“Come out of the Great Tribulation” and stand before our GOD, in heaven before the results of the 7th seal and so on.
WE have a very big disagreement with the one who is demanding that “falling away” means to depart from the planet, yet some here are doing the very same thing with the word ”harpazo” as meaning that we just get seized in place.
Go figure…
WE can show them what the words mean but we can’t make them understand the meaning IF they have a preconceived belief that is derived from the teachings of other men...
WE leave in the Ark and the unsaved are “left behind”.
Matthew 24 40
“Two men will be working together in the field; one will be taken, the other left. 41 Two women will be grinding flour at the mill; one will be taken, the other left.
Is clearly explained by Lord Jesus right here;
Matthew 25:1 “Then the Kingdom of Heaven will be like ten bridesmaids[ who took their lamps and went to meet the bridegroom.
2 Five of them were foolish, and five were wise. 3 The five who were foolish didn’t take enough olive oil for their lamps, 4 but the other five were wise enough to take along extra oil. 5 When the bridegroom was delayed, they all became drowsy and fell asleep.
6 “At midnight they were roused by the shout, ‘Look, the Bridegroom is coming! Come out and meet him!’
7 “All the bridesmaids got up and prepared their lamps. 8 Then the five foolish ones asked the others, ‘Please give us some of your oil because our lamps are going out.’
9 “But the others replied, ‘We don’t have enough for all of us. Go to a shop and buy some for yourselves.’
10 “But while they were gone to buy oil, the bridegroom came. Then those who were ready went in with him to the marriage feast, and the door was locked. 11 Later, when the other five bridesmaids returned, they stood outside, calling, ‘Lord! Lord! Open the door for us!’
12 “But He called back, ‘Believe me, I don’t know you!’
What is the lesson that He is teaching us?
Going or staying is not the lesson.
THIS IS THE LESSON;
13
“So you, too, must keep watch! For you do not know the day or hour of My return.
Thus Saith the Lord.
By and in His Love,
Brother Jerry
I reckon that is enough said...
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