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Do we have to keep the commandments in order to go to heaven?
- Thread starter whitesquaw
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Don't complicate it all one has to do is what the word says
Rom 10:9-10
9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
KJV
Rom 10:9-10
9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
KJV
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k4c
Well-Known Member
There is a door that one must enter by faith to be saved but once one enters there is a growing and a lifestyle of making right choices based on God's will.
Do not think your faith alone will save you.
James 2:14 What does it profit, my brethren, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can faith save him?
James 2:24 You see then that a man is justified by works, and not by faith only.
When we come to Jesus for the first time He cleanses us (justifies) and makes us right (righteous) before God. But that's just the doorway. You have a whole life ahead of you to grow and make right choices based on God's will. Otherwise, your faith is dead.
James 2:26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.
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Harry3142
Regular Member
whitesquare-
The commandments (the 613 laws that contain what we call The Ten Commandments) were never intended as a means of salvation, either by themselves or as an augmentation to faith. The closest thing we have today that we can compare to those commandments is the U. S. Constitution in the USA, and other constitutions and/or civil and criminal laws in other countries. Their purpose was not to be seen as a 'roadmap to heaven'. Instead, it was, and still is, to be seen as the foundation of a cohesive society, with all its members following a common set of laws.
Even the reward which God promised to the Hebrews who acepted this set of laws was limited to making their society stronger and more prosperous. Here is the promise made, which many Jews even today see as the only reward for their loyalty to Torah:
If you pay attention to these laws and are careful to follow them, then the Lord you God will keep his covenant of love with you, as he swore to your forefathers. He will love you and bless you and increase your numbers. He will bless the fruit of your womb, the crops of your land - your grain, new wine and oil - the calves of your herds and the lambs of your flocks in the land that he swore to your forefathers to give you. You will be blessed more than any other people; none of your men or women will be childless, nor any of your livestock without young. The Lord will keep you free from every disease. He will not inflict on you the horrible diseases you knew in Egypt, but he will inflict them on all who hate you. (Deuteronomy 7:12-15,NIV)
That's it; that is the reward for keeping the commandments. It was a very pragmatic, here-and-now contract. The people obeyed the Torah in this lifetime; they were rewarded in this lifetime.
By the time that Jesus Christ came among us there were some sects which believed there was an afterlife attainable by humankind. But this was by no means a universal belief; many still believed that death was a wall, not a doorway. We lived, we died, the end. And even those who believed in an afterlife were not in agreement as to what that afterlife consisted of. One of Jesus' own disciples obviously believed in reincarnation, as evidenced by his asking Jesus if the 'man born blind' was being punished for a sin he had committed. That's a question straight out of Hinduism, where a person's faults in a previous life can be 'worked out' through a physical disability in their next life.
Some sects. such as the Pharisees, believed that zealous observance of the commandments of Torah would earn for us the righteousness we needed in order to attain an afterlife. The more strictly we kept the laws and commandments, the more points we made with God. But Jesus himself 'shot down' that attitude with the following passage:
"Suppose one of you had a servant plowing or looking after the sheep. Would he say to the servant when he comes in from the field, 'Come along now and sit down to eat'? Would he not rather say, 'Prepare my supper, get yourself ready and wait on me while I eat and drink; after that you may eat and drink'? Would he thank the servant because he did what he was told to do? So you also, when you have done everything you were told to do, should say, 'We are unworthy servants; we have only done our duty.' " (The Gospel of St. Luke 17:7-10, NIV)
What we say and/or do on behalf of the kingdom of God is nothing more than what we should say and/or do. No reward is to be sought, nor any reward expected. We are to perform the tasks set before us while expecting nothing beyond the successful completion of those tasks as a reward. We are to be childlike in our faith, but not childish in our attitude toward our own work.
But if our salvation depended on our own work, either as a substitute for faith in Jesus Christ or as an augmentation to it, we would all be doomed. we simply cannot 'go the extra mile' to the extent necessary for perfection, and perfection is exactly what God requires of us. There is no such thing as 'good enough' when facing God's judgement:
Now a man came up to Jesus and asked, "Teacher, what good thing must I do to get eternal life?"
"Why do you ask me about what is good?" Jesus replied. "There is only One who is good. If you want to enter life, obey the commandments."
"Which ones?" the man inquired.
Jesus replied, "Do not murder, do not commit adultery, do not steal, do not give false testimony, honor your father and mother, and 'love your neighbor as yourself.' "
"All these I have kept," the young man said. "What do I still lack?"
Jesus answered, "If you want to be perfect, go, sell your possessions and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me."
When the young man heard this, he went away sad, because he had great wealth.
Then Jesus said to his disciples, "I tell you the truth, it is hard for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven. Again I tell you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God."
When the disciples heard this they were greatly astonished and asked, "Who then can be saved?"
Jesus looked at them and said, "With man this is impossible, but with God all things are possible." (The Gospel of St. Matthew 19:16-26,NIV)
And what is impossible for man to do, God did indeed accomplish:
Now we know that whatever the law says, it says to those who are under the law, so that every mouth may be silenced and the whole world held accountable to God. Therefore no one will be declared righteous in his sight by observing the law; rather, through the law we become conscious of sin.
But now a righteousness from God, apart from law, has been made known, to which the Law and the Prophets testify. This righteousness from God comes through faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe. There is no difference, for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, and are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus. God presented him as a sacrifice of atonement, through faith in his blood. He did this to demonstrate his justice, because in his forbearance he had left the sins committed beforehand unpunished - he did it to demonstrate his justice at the present time, so as to be just and the one who justifies those who have faith in Jesus. (Romans 3:19-26,NIV)
The only righteousness acceptable to God is his own righteousness. Fortunately for us, through God's own planning and work, with the full cooperation and effort of his Son Jesus Christ, he has earned for us the righteousness that is totally unattainable through our own efforts. Our own righteousness gains us nothing. It is only through our acceptance of God's righteousness that we have assurance of eternal life.
And so where does compassion for others come in? When Jesus spoke of the kingdom he used organic examples, rather than organizational ones. He is the vine and we are the branches (John 15:1-8) and the persin with the proper grasp of the gospel is 'the seed that fell on good soil' (Matthew 13:18-23). Compassion to be real must also be organic. We can't dictate compassion like we dictate stopping at a stop sign or staying within the speed limit. Either it's there in our spiritual bodies just as a heartbeat and active EEG are there in our our natural bodies, or it isn't there at all.
And where does this compassion originate? It originates from the vine, it comes through the good soil, it is evidence that we are indeed bonded with Jesus Christ. Our compassion is in reality his compassion flowing through us and toward others, just as the vine's vitality is the true source of its branches vitality. Just as he showed compassion for those around him through his own work while he was among us, he continues to show his compassion for those around us by his work through us now.
The commandments (the 613 laws that contain what we call The Ten Commandments) were never intended as a means of salvation, either by themselves or as an augmentation to faith. The closest thing we have today that we can compare to those commandments is the U. S. Constitution in the USA, and other constitutions and/or civil and criminal laws in other countries. Their purpose was not to be seen as a 'roadmap to heaven'. Instead, it was, and still is, to be seen as the foundation of a cohesive society, with all its members following a common set of laws.
Even the reward which God promised to the Hebrews who acepted this set of laws was limited to making their society stronger and more prosperous. Here is the promise made, which many Jews even today see as the only reward for their loyalty to Torah:
If you pay attention to these laws and are careful to follow them, then the Lord you God will keep his covenant of love with you, as he swore to your forefathers. He will love you and bless you and increase your numbers. He will bless the fruit of your womb, the crops of your land - your grain, new wine and oil - the calves of your herds and the lambs of your flocks in the land that he swore to your forefathers to give you. You will be blessed more than any other people; none of your men or women will be childless, nor any of your livestock without young. The Lord will keep you free from every disease. He will not inflict on you the horrible diseases you knew in Egypt, but he will inflict them on all who hate you. (Deuteronomy 7:12-15,NIV)
That's it; that is the reward for keeping the commandments. It was a very pragmatic, here-and-now contract. The people obeyed the Torah in this lifetime; they were rewarded in this lifetime.
By the time that Jesus Christ came among us there were some sects which believed there was an afterlife attainable by humankind. But this was by no means a universal belief; many still believed that death was a wall, not a doorway. We lived, we died, the end. And even those who believed in an afterlife were not in agreement as to what that afterlife consisted of. One of Jesus' own disciples obviously believed in reincarnation, as evidenced by his asking Jesus if the 'man born blind' was being punished for a sin he had committed. That's a question straight out of Hinduism, where a person's faults in a previous life can be 'worked out' through a physical disability in their next life.
Some sects. such as the Pharisees, believed that zealous observance of the commandments of Torah would earn for us the righteousness we needed in order to attain an afterlife. The more strictly we kept the laws and commandments, the more points we made with God. But Jesus himself 'shot down' that attitude with the following passage:
"Suppose one of you had a servant plowing or looking after the sheep. Would he say to the servant when he comes in from the field, 'Come along now and sit down to eat'? Would he not rather say, 'Prepare my supper, get yourself ready and wait on me while I eat and drink; after that you may eat and drink'? Would he thank the servant because he did what he was told to do? So you also, when you have done everything you were told to do, should say, 'We are unworthy servants; we have only done our duty.' " (The Gospel of St. Luke 17:7-10, NIV)
What we say and/or do on behalf of the kingdom of God is nothing more than what we should say and/or do. No reward is to be sought, nor any reward expected. We are to perform the tasks set before us while expecting nothing beyond the successful completion of those tasks as a reward. We are to be childlike in our faith, but not childish in our attitude toward our own work.
But if our salvation depended on our own work, either as a substitute for faith in Jesus Christ or as an augmentation to it, we would all be doomed. we simply cannot 'go the extra mile' to the extent necessary for perfection, and perfection is exactly what God requires of us. There is no such thing as 'good enough' when facing God's judgement:
Now a man came up to Jesus and asked, "Teacher, what good thing must I do to get eternal life?"
"Why do you ask me about what is good?" Jesus replied. "There is only One who is good. If you want to enter life, obey the commandments."
"Which ones?" the man inquired.
Jesus replied, "Do not murder, do not commit adultery, do not steal, do not give false testimony, honor your father and mother, and 'love your neighbor as yourself.' "
"All these I have kept," the young man said. "What do I still lack?"
Jesus answered, "If you want to be perfect, go, sell your possessions and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me."
When the young man heard this, he went away sad, because he had great wealth.
Then Jesus said to his disciples, "I tell you the truth, it is hard for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven. Again I tell you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God."
When the disciples heard this they were greatly astonished and asked, "Who then can be saved?"
Jesus looked at them and said, "With man this is impossible, but with God all things are possible." (The Gospel of St. Matthew 19:16-26,NIV)
And what is impossible for man to do, God did indeed accomplish:
Now we know that whatever the law says, it says to those who are under the law, so that every mouth may be silenced and the whole world held accountable to God. Therefore no one will be declared righteous in his sight by observing the law; rather, through the law we become conscious of sin.
But now a righteousness from God, apart from law, has been made known, to which the Law and the Prophets testify. This righteousness from God comes through faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe. There is no difference, for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, and are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus. God presented him as a sacrifice of atonement, through faith in his blood. He did this to demonstrate his justice, because in his forbearance he had left the sins committed beforehand unpunished - he did it to demonstrate his justice at the present time, so as to be just and the one who justifies those who have faith in Jesus. (Romans 3:19-26,NIV)
The only righteousness acceptable to God is his own righteousness. Fortunately for us, through God's own planning and work, with the full cooperation and effort of his Son Jesus Christ, he has earned for us the righteousness that is totally unattainable through our own efforts. Our own righteousness gains us nothing. It is only through our acceptance of God's righteousness that we have assurance of eternal life.
And so where does compassion for others come in? When Jesus spoke of the kingdom he used organic examples, rather than organizational ones. He is the vine and we are the branches (John 15:1-8) and the persin with the proper grasp of the gospel is 'the seed that fell on good soil' (Matthew 13:18-23). Compassion to be real must also be organic. We can't dictate compassion like we dictate stopping at a stop sign or staying within the speed limit. Either it's there in our spiritual bodies just as a heartbeat and active EEG are there in our our natural bodies, or it isn't there at all.
And where does this compassion originate? It originates from the vine, it comes through the good soil, it is evidence that we are indeed bonded with Jesus Christ. Our compassion is in reality his compassion flowing through us and toward others, just as the vine's vitality is the true source of its branches vitality. Just as he showed compassion for those around him through his own work while he was among us, he continues to show his compassion for those around us by his work through us now.
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Dear whitesquaw. God gave us 10 Commandments, and Jesus gave us 2 Commandments, which say all what God told us in His 10 Commandments. In Matthew, chapter 22, verses 35-40, Jesus tells a Lawyer: " the first and great Commandment is: Love God with all thy heart, with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. The second is: Love thy neighbour as thyself." Then Jesus says: " On these two Commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets." Love is of most importance to God, and God is Love. Jesus died out of Love for us, He is our Saviour, and He reconciled us to God. Now we have to Repent: to exchange our selfish and unloving character for: Loving God with all our beings, and loving our neighbour, ( all others, friends and not friends) as we love ourselves, with kindness, courtesy, charity, and forgiveness as God has forgiven us. ( In the prayer Jesus taught us, He said: Father forgive us our sins as we will forgive those who sin against us) Jesus will give us His Love and Joy to share with each other, and the Holy Spirit will empower us with his Love. Jesus also told us to " ask and ye will receive." God will see our love for all we know and all we meet, and God will approve and bless us." Jesus is also The Way, and Jesus will lead us back to God, where we came from. I say this with love, whitesquaw. Greetings from Emmy, your sister in Christ.
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D
DiligentlySeekingGod
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According to Scripture, the answer to your question is no.
Galatians 3:24 - "Therefore the law was our tutor to bring us to Christ, that we might be justified by faith."
James 2:10 - "For whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles at just one point is guilty of breaking all of it."
Romans 5:9 - "Since we have now been justified by His blood, how much more shall we be saved from Gods wrath through Him."
Galatians 5:4 - "You who are trying to be justified by the law have been alienated from Christ; you have fallen away from grace."
Ephesians 1:7 - " In Him we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of sins, in accordance with the riches of Gods grace."
Ephesians 2:8-9 - "For it is by grace you have been saved, through faithand this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of Godnot by works, so that no one can boast."
Titus 3:5 - "He saved us, not because of righteous things we had done, but because of His mercy. He saved us through the washing of rebirth and renewal by the Holy Spirit,"
2 Timothy 1:9 - "He has saved us and called us to a holy lifenot because of anything we have done but because of His own purpose and grace. This grace was given us in Christ Jesus before the beginning of time,"
1 Corinthians 15:2-4 - "By this gospel you are saved, if you hold firmly to the word I preached to you. Otherwise, you have believed in vain. For what I received I passed on to you as of first importance: that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, that He was buried, that He was raised on the third day according to the Scriptures,"
Galatians 2:19-21 - "For through the law I died to the law so that I might live for God. I have been crucified with Christ and I no longer live, but Christ lives in me. The life I now live in the body, I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave himself for me. I do not set aside the grace of God, for if righteousness could be gained through the law, Christ died for nothing!
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Yes and no.
No, we are no longer bound by the 600+ commandments recorded in the Law of Moses. We are not saved by the works we do, but the works we do show that we have been saved by grace through faith.
Yes, we are bound by the Law of Christ which is:
Love the Lord your God with all your heart, mind, soul, and strength,
and
Love your neighbor as yourself.
(Mark 12:29-31)
If one is in Christ, one will automatically work toward these goals of loving God and of treating others the way we wish to be treated... mercifully.
If one claims to love God but hates another person, then the love of God is not in that person.
(1 John 4:15-20)
We must forgive as we have been forgiven. Then we show what are the good works of God required to prove our faith;
(Matthew 18:21-35)
afterall, faith without works is dead.
(James 2:14-26)
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All I have to say as Harry pretty much summed it up 
D):
Ephesians 2: 8, Romans 10: 17, and Galatians 6: 1-10 (NIV)
There are many gifts and blessings Christ can give, but the gift of eternal life that is earned through faith in the blood of Christ, in His sacrifice...and faith alone
When James spoke of good works ("faith is dead without works"): he speaks of this. We have a Spirit and we must continue to feed that Spirit. If we continue to feed the Flesh, eventually we will die in the Flesh, the Spirit will wither away. If we do not continue to remain in the vine of Christ, we will be like branch that withers away. We must make a choice on whom we will serve: ourselves or Christ, the world or Christ. One cannot serve two masters. (More on the Spirit and Flesh and Wisdom: 1 Corinthians 1: 18-31 and 1 Corinthians 2)
It is a hard matter and path living for Christ, faith is not any easy road, but if we continue to perservere and pray to overcome our many obstacles (internally and externally) and trust in Christ, we will be able to overcome ourselves and the world. There is a truth to the saying "ourselves is our own enemy"/"I am my own enemy".
So in sum, the gift of eternal life is recieved only through faith and faith alone....which is provided by the Spirit. The Spirit can die if we do not feed it. So continue to feed it/remain in the vine and you will continue to grow.
We are 'works in progress' our whole lives. We are being chipped into masterpieces every moment of our lives. To prepare us for the day of our death or when Christ returns. To prepare us to be able to stand before Him and His Judgement Seat. For everyone, both believer and unbeliever, shall go before the Judgement Seat. But do not be afraid, if we trust in Christ, He shall be our mediator and high priest (as Paul speaks of this all throughout Hebrews in various places especially in Chapters 4-8). He shall be our Defender in our counsul.
Sorry, if my word choice is bad. I am not the best speaker, especially when I am 'on a roll'/'rant'. lol
Well, I hope this helps. Good job everyone. Blessed be
D): Ephesians 2: 8, Romans 10: 17, and Galatians 6: 1-10 (NIV)
There are many gifts and blessings Christ can give, but the gift of eternal life that is earned through faith in the blood of Christ, in His sacrifice...and faith alone
When James spoke of good works ("faith is dead without works"): he speaks of this. We have a Spirit and we must continue to feed that Spirit. If we continue to feed the Flesh, eventually we will die in the Flesh, the Spirit will wither away. If we do not continue to remain in the vine of Christ, we will be like branch that withers away. We must make a choice on whom we will serve: ourselves or Christ, the world or Christ. One cannot serve two masters. (More on the Spirit and Flesh and Wisdom: 1 Corinthians 1: 18-31 and 1 Corinthians 2)
It is a hard matter and path living for Christ, faith is not any easy road, but if we continue to perservere and pray to overcome our many obstacles (internally and externally) and trust in Christ, we will be able to overcome ourselves and the world. There is a truth to the saying "ourselves is our own enemy"/"I am my own enemy".
So in sum, the gift of eternal life is recieved only through faith and faith alone....which is provided by the Spirit. The Spirit can die if we do not feed it. So continue to feed it/remain in the vine and you will continue to grow.
We are 'works in progress' our whole lives. We are being chipped into masterpieces every moment of our lives. To prepare us for the day of our death or when Christ returns. To prepare us to be able to stand before Him and His Judgement Seat. For everyone, both believer and unbeliever, shall go before the Judgement Seat. But do not be afraid, if we trust in Christ, He shall be our mediator and high priest (as Paul speaks of this all throughout Hebrews in various places especially in Chapters 4-8). He shall be our Defender in our counsul.
Sorry, if my word choice is bad. I am not the best speaker, especially when I am 'on a roll'/'rant'. lol
Well, I hope this helps. Good job everyone. Blessed be
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Yes, Matt. 19:17. But what are the commandments? Paul identified them as loving one another. But no one can do that until they are enabled to love one another (1 Peter 1:2, 22).
Matt. 19:17 if you wish to enter into life, keep the commandments."
John 13:8 Jesus answered him, "If I do not wash you, you have no part with Me."
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F
from scratch
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No! But that doesn't promote the idea that you can sin all you want and get there either. For the behavior of the flesh that you see I present you with Gal 5:13-21.
For the legal requirement of the 10 commandments and the rest of the law being required I present Jer 31:31-34 and Jesus' (God's) testimony that the first covenant no longer has jurisdiction.
On the mater of righteousness Jesus said unless your righteousness exceed that of the scribes and pharisees you ain't gonna make it. The righteousness required by God can only be had by means of a gift - Rom 6:23. All 100% of your efforts is only going to bring death - same verse.
You can't have both redemption/salvation and the law - Gal 5:3, 4.
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G
GratiaCorpusChristi
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No, we have to keep the commandments in order to love our neighbor.
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Frogster
Galatians is the best!
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Sounds like you think we take over now, perfecting through the flesh, our own effort.?
Saved paul, tried to keep one of the 10, and lust got worse, in rom 7. Now what do we do?
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Frogster
Galatians is the best!
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you may want to read the rest, he kept them, but it was not enough. There is always more under law, that is why cursed who does not do it all..gal 3:10.
Matt 19:16 And behold, a man came up to him, saying, Teacher, what good deed must I do to have eternal life? 17 And he said to him, Why do you ask me about what is good? There is only one who is good. If you would enter life, keep the commandments. 18 He said to him, Which ones? And Jesus said, You shall not murder, You shall not commit adultery, You shall not steal, You shall not bear false witness, 19 Honor your father and mother, and, You shall love your neighbor as yourself. 20 The young man said to him, All these I have kept. What do I still lack? 21 Jesus said to him, If you would be perfect, go, sell what you possess and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; and come, follow me. 22 When the young man heard this he went away sorrowful, for he had great possessions.
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D
DiligentlySeekingGod
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Romans 8:21-26 also clearly states that we are justified by faith, apart from the law.
But now apart from the law the righteousness of God has been made known, to which the Law and the Prophets testify. This righteousness is given through faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe. There is no difference between Jew and Gentile, for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, and all are justified freely by His grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus. God presented Christ as a sacrifice of atonement, through the shedding of His blood—to be received by faith. He did this to demonstrate His righteousness, because in His forbearance He had left the sins committed beforehand unpunished—He did it to demonstrate His righteousness at the present time, so as to be just and the one who justifies those who have faith in Jesus." (emphasis added)
In my previous post, I also posted other Scriptures teaching that we are justified by faith, not by the law.
But now apart from the law the righteousness of God has been made known, to which the Law and the Prophets testify. This righteousness is given through faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe. There is no difference between Jew and Gentile, for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, and all are justified freely by His grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus. God presented Christ as a sacrifice of atonement, through the shedding of His blood—to be received by faith. He did this to demonstrate His righteousness, because in His forbearance He had left the sins committed beforehand unpunished—He did it to demonstrate His righteousness at the present time, so as to be just and the one who justifies those who have faith in Jesus." (emphasis added)
In my previous post, I also posted other Scriptures teaching that we are justified by faith, not by the law.
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