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Featured Do we have the ability to obey God's Commandments?

Discussion in 'Controversial Christian Theology' started by redleghunter, Feb 12, 2019.

  1. Hammster

    Hammster Who has believed our report? Staff Member Site Advisor Supporter

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    It exactly means that.
     
  2. fhansen

    fhansen Oldbie

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    God can't will evil. If so, heaven will be hell
     
  3. Hammster

    Hammster Who has believed our report? Staff Member Site Advisor Supporter

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    So what’s it going to be?
     
  4. 1213

    1213 Disciple of Jesus

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    This is how I understand the matter. Sin is separation from God, or that person rejects God. People reject God, because they want something else. For example, Adam and Eve rejected God, because they wanted the things the serpent described. And then, when they rejected God, they committed the original sin, which is why we are also born in sinful state, in separation from God. Luckily Jesus came to restore the connection so that we can be free from the sin.
     
  5. fhansen

    fhansen Oldbie

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    I already explained that even within that relationship God is still capable of making man a morally accountable being. We are totally dependent on Him and yet we can fail to even acknowledge His existence, such is the extent of our freedom or autonomy. In any case He allows us to place ourselves "in the hands of our own counsel". The purpose, however, is for us to ultimately learn just how real He is, and just how much we depend on Him, just how critical His counsel is. Do you really think that it's God's will for children to be tortured and abused?
     
    Last edited: Feb 15, 2019
  6. Halbhh

    Halbhh The wonder and awe of "all things" Supporter

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    In 'some' way? Surely -- He has created us, knows our spirits before we are born, and knows our tendencies, and knows His own ultimate plans He will accomplish, that those who believe in Christ truly enough to listen to Him will be given eternal life. God is totally in control of what matters.

    Notice though that's not the same as saying that if someone gets a flat tire, or the flu, that God caused it. He might on some day with some individual, for a purpose...but we cannot assume that everything that happens, like if I spill a glass of water, or forget to fill the gas tank in my lawnmower, that God has caused me to have an accident or to be forgetful. Instead, He has designed us, evidently able to respond to His words! Able to answer or refuse the urging of the Spirit.

    When Paul wrote to believers to walk in the Spirit (Romans chapter 8), it's because they have an ongoing choice each day of whether to do so.
     
  7. Hammster

    Hammster Who has believed our report? Staff Member Site Advisor Supporter

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    If that’s the case, then you are saying that there are some things outside of His control, correct?
     
  8. straykat

    straykat Well-Known Member

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    Whenever I say I can't, I know it's nonsense and I'm being a liar.

    At the very least, not as a Christian, that is. I'm well aware of when I could do better, but haven't.
     
  9. Halbhh

    Halbhh The wonder and awe of "all things" Supporter

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    Not exactly. He made us, so therefore we are as He made us. If He chose to give us the ability to make real choices -- as would fit scripture telling us to choose one way instead of another -- then that's His design. If we are even unpredictable in some certain way(s) even -- if -- that's His design, in that case. (Even that last possibility would not suggest for instance He cannot foresee where we are heading, given our current direction. Instead, I feel confident He can see perfectly what direction we are going, even in subtle ways we ourselves cannot detect, and knows where those paths lead to.)
     
    Last edited: Feb 15, 2019
  10. fhansen

    fhansen Oldbie

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    I agree with this. And I think we need to ask a question: What is God's purpose in all of this? Is it to just save a number of worthless wretches and damn the rest? Or is there a bigger picture; is He meaning to produce something, something better than He started with? And I'd submit that a created being such as ourselves becomes better to the extent that they choose that path, that goodness over evil. So God doesn't even want to decide for us, but rather to help and draw us towards this growth, this choice, this justice or righteousness.
     
    Last edited: Feb 16, 2019
  11. straykat

    straykat Well-Known Member

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    God rejoices in life. Which is all he wanted for us to begin with. Urging us to justice is because we are all now born in death and must be reborn to life in Christ.

    He didn't make us to be imperfect, for sure. The original creation was "good".
     
  12. fhansen

    fhansen Oldbie

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    The original creation was good. But it could be said that the epitome of the original creation, in the form of Adam and Eve, did not opt for true goodness when faced with the choice. So a classic teaching says that, again looking at it from the larger perspective, God created His world "in statu viae", "in a state of journeying to perfection". A related teaching goes on to say that:
    "As long as freedom has not bound itself definitively to its ultimate good which is God, there is the possibility of choosing between good and evil, and thus of growing in perfection or of failing and sinning. This freedom characterizes properly human acts. It is the basis of praise or blame, merit or reproach."

    We are accountable for our own choices and actions.
     
  13. Hammster

    Hammster Who has believed our report? Staff Member Site Advisor Supporter

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    Can he stop us from doing certain things?
     
  14. Halbhh

    Halbhh The wonder and awe of "all things" Supporter

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    Sure.
     
  15. Hammster

    Hammster Who has believed our report? Staff Member Site Advisor Supporter

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    Then it would stand to reason He’s in complete control.
     
  16. Halbhh

    Halbhh The wonder and awe of "all things" Supporter

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  17. Hammster

    Hammster Who has believed our report? Staff Member Site Advisor Supporter

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