Do Sabbath Keepers KEEP the Sabbath?

Yeshua HaDerekh

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Please explain to us how you do away with part of the law (sacrifices and all the other laws you don't keep) when Jesus plainly said that not even one jot can pass from the law. By quoting those verses you have just dug yourself deeper into a hole you cannot get out.

Since you believe that and are telling us the law has not been fulfilled then you are obligated to observe every jot and tittle of the whole Sinai covenant. Think about what you wrote.

You do know that NO ONE can or ever has kept the whole Sinai law? Not even Yeshua. We could not keep them in Babylon either without a Temple...
 
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Yeshua HaDerekh

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You are not immune from "ignoring" so all you are doing is is like the pot calling the kettle black.

He knows full well he is wrong...yet he keeps repeating the error. There is no debate or discussion. 1 + 1 = 2...it is clear
 
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mmksparbud

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Okay mm, how about mulling over what Isaiah the wrote in verse 24 24 And as they go out, they will see
the dead bodies of those who have rebelled against me.
For the worms that devour them will never die,
and the fire that burns them will never go out.
All who pass by
will view them with utter horror.”


Does that sound like the new Earth to you? How about some more of Isaiah's profound statements about the new Earth Is 65:17 “Look! I am creating new heavens and a new earth, and no one will even think about the old ones anymore. “No longer will babies die when only a few days old.
20 No longer will adults die before they have lived a full life.
No longer will people be considered old at one hundred!
Only the cursed will die that young! In those days people will live in the houses they build
and eat the fruit of their own vineyards.
22 Unlike the past, invaders will not take their houses
and confiscate their vineyards.
For my people will live as long as trees,
and my chosen ones will have time to enjoy their hard-won gains.
23 They will not work in vain,
and their children will not be doomed to misfortune.

Don't read the OT much apparently. Not familiar with Jewis way of wording things? Yes--it is the new earth! This is God talking and when He says the new earth which I shall make that is exactly what he means! Jesus was quoting this.


Mar 9:47 And if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out: it is better for thee to enter into the kingdom of God with one eye, than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire:
Mar 9:48 Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.

And this is where many believe in an everlasting burning hell fire---which I do not believe--but that is another thread--of which there have been many. It simply means this will be the end of the wicked after their judgement--after the 1000 years. They die, yes, in the presence of the angels, the saved and the Lamb. Now---why would this verse upset you if you are one of those who believes in an everlasting burning hell? No--It is not my idea of heaven, but for some, apparently it is.

I don't know what you object to in Isa 65:17-23. Just means there will be no death, no babies dyeing young and 100 is no longer old. What do you object to?
 
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mmksparbud

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Please explain to us how you do away with part of the law (sacrifices and all the other laws you don't keep) when Jesus plainly said that not even one jot can pass from the law. By quoting those verses you have just dug yourself deeper into a hole you cannot get out.

Are you able to not speak your own words or think your own thoughts on your defunct Sabbath? Is 58 If you talk to others about what happened during the week or even tell them you are going on vacation or someplace else you have broken the Sabbath because those things are not Holy words and thoughts. You tell others they must keep the Sabbath when you know darn well you are not able to do what you are telling others they must do.

And why should they continue when Jesus was the sacrificial Lamb? The 10 commandments were kept inside the ark---the Levitical laws were kept outside the ark. They were never meant to be permanent and they are the ones that were nailed to the cross for obvious reasons! You can't see that?? They are the ones that were a shadow of things to come. The Sabbath certainly was never a shadow of things to come but pointed backwards to creation and the one who created everything. This is about the 4th time I've said this and you still ask the same question. It's not rocket science. Whatever pointed to Jesus as the sacrificial Lamb has been nailed to the cross. There are Jewish ceremonies, like Passover that can still be kept for they are not pointing to Jesus. Those are the sabbath days Paul was talking about.
Col_2:16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:
This also has been said several times'.
 
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mmksparbud

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Since you believe that and are telling us the law has not been fulfilled then you are obligated to observe every jot and tittle of the whole Sinai covenant. Think about what you wrote. Someone is giving you false information friend.

Jesus said He came to fulfill the law and the prophets and you are telling us He didn't do that. Are you serving a God that goes back on His word. 17 X)" data-cr="#cen-NKJV-23252X" style="box-sizing: border-box; font-size: 0.625em; line-height: 22px; position: relative; vertical-align: top; top: 0px; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: "Helvetica Neue", Verdana, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);">“Do not think that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I did not come to destroy but to fulfill.

Of course came to fulfill! He will fulfill all---He has fulfilled the cross---He has not, obviously, returned to get us yet! Unless you are one of those that believe He did and all of us are the left behind!

There you go, you take a false premise and threaten us with it. God never said to the gentiles anything about keeping Sinai covenant laws yet somehow you morph those laws as the duty of Christians over and above what Paul has written on the subject. 2Cor3:7-11 tells us the 10 commandments have been done away. You purposely avoided any response to what was presented. Tell us why Paul's words in your eyes are false.

I have not threatened you with anything! Sounds like a paranoid problem. I said teach others to break the law at your own peril---I do not hand out punishments, God does. I have already pointed out everything that has been asked, if something is further upsetting you, please check the back posts to see if the question has not been answered several times already!
 
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D.A. Wright

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Oops. Weren't you supposed to "honor" your parents?
If they say you shouldn't observe the Sabbath, then you should obey them.
If they say to kill someone, should I then kill them? Human logic applied to a theological discussion often amounts to vain philosophy, no?
 
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Saint Steven

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They were keeping it in Egypt.
They were keeping the Sabbath in Egypt? No way!
Explain this.

Exodus 16:27-30
Nevertheless, some of the people went out on the seventh day to gather it, but they found none. 28 Then the Lord said to Moses, “How long will you refuse to keep my commands and my instructions? 29 Bear in mind that the Lord has given you the Sabbath; that is why on the sixth day he gives you bread for two days. Everyone is to stay where they are on the seventh day; no one is to go out.” 30 So the people rested on the seventh day.
 
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Saint Steven

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If they say to kill someone, should I then kill them? Human logic applied to a theological discussion often amounts to vain philosophy, no?
I think my only point was to show that the law can be in conflict with itself. Jesus pointed this out on several occasions. Sheep falls in a pit on the Sabbath... what to do, what to do??? (Matt.12:11)
 
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mmksparbud

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They were keeping the Sabbath in Egypt? No way!
Explain this.

Exodus 16:27-30
Nevertheless, some of the people went out on the seventh day to gather it, but they found none. 28 Then the Lord said to Moses, “How long will you refuse to keep my commands and my instructions? 29 Bear in mind that the Lord has given you the Sabbath; that is why on the sixth day he gives you bread for two days. Everyone is to stay where they are on the seventh day; no one is to go out.” 30 So the people rested on the seventh day.

So---there are always those who disobey. Why did you not explain the verse I quoted?

Exo 5:4 And the king of Egypt said unto them, Wherefore do ye, Moses and Aaron, let the people from their works? get you unto your burdens.


You love to ignore the obvious, don't you.
 
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Bob S

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Of course came to fulfill! He will fulfill all---He has fulfilled the cross---He has not, obviously, returned to get us yet! Unless you are one of those that believe He did and all of us are the left behind!
Common sense tells us Jesus fulfilled (brought to an end) the old covenant. Had He not done so He could not have ratified the new covenant with His blood. Either we are in the new covenant era or Jesus didn't do what He came to do and the Jews are still under the old covenant. Gentiles never were under the old one. How in the World can you write that Gentiles are now subject to the old covenant?

I have not threatened you with anything! Sounds like a paranoid problem. I said teach others to break the law at your own peril---I do not hand out punishments, God does.
No, you tell us you never do anything that is wrong, but it certainly read like a threat.

I have already pointed out everything that has been asked,
Not everything and what you do "point out" is merely an opinion. When I asked you to explain 2Cor3:7-11 all you did was throw a bunch of scripture at me that didn't answer anything. So, you pointed out nothing. Eph 2 is another example of your evasion. Your answer to Col 2 may have satisfied you, but it sure evaded Paul's words.
if something is further upsetting you,
Let us get something straight. I have been posting on forums for many years and I have, in the past, gotten upset. It cost me time out and I possibly hurt others. I don't get upset anymore. I tell it like scripture dictates. You can either accept what I write or contradict it. I am mostly interested in helping those who lurk find the real truth.

please check the back posts to see if the question has not been answered several times already!
That is like finding a needle in the haystack. If you ask me a question would you like it if I told you to go back someplace and find my answer?
 
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mmksparbud

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Common sense tells us Jesus fulfilled (brought to an end) the old covenant. Had He not done so He could not have ratified the new covenant with His blood. Either we are in the new covenant era or Jesus didn't do what He came to do and the Jews are still under the old covenant. Gentiles never were under the old one. How in the World can you write that Gentiles are now subject to the old covenant?

Yes, it is obvious that all laws pointing to Jesus as the sacrificial Lamb were nailed to the cross for He fulfilled those. No, He has obviously not fulfilled all as He has not yet returned to get us.


No, you tell us you never do anything that is wrong, but it certainly read like a threat.

I NEVER SAID ANY SUCH STUPID THING.

Not everything and what you do "point out" is merely an opinion. When I asked you to explain 2Cor3:7-11 all you did was throw a bunch of scripture at me that didn't answer anything. So, you pointed out nothing. Eph 2 is another example of your evasion. Your answer to Col 2 may have satisfied you, but it sure evaded Paul's words.

Your failure to want to comprehend scripture is out of my control.

That is like finding a needle in the haystack. If you ask me a question would you like it if I told you to go back someplace and find my answer?

Wouldn't upset me as I would do just that and have many times.
 
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D.A. Wright

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Common sense tells us Jesus fulfilled (brought to an end) the old covenant. Had He not done so He could not have ratified the new covenant with His blood. Either we are in the new covenant era or Jesus didn't do what He came to do and the Jews are still under the old covenant. Gentiles never were under the old one. How in the World can you write that Gentiles are now subject to the old covenant?
Jesus did not fulfill the "Old Covenant." There was nothing to fulfill, because it was based on the promises of sinful men, and so it never got off the ground. The New Covenant was fulfilled by Christ, the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world. When Christ committed Himself to the plan of redemption in the heavenly courts above, it became the word of God and, as such, was as good as done. Every sinner who was ever and will ever be saved, will have salvation by grace through faith in Jesus Christ to thank. Even the unfallen angels are not secure from further rebellion, except by the blood of Christ. Angelic sinless perfection failed in Heaven. Human sinless perfection failed in Eden. The everlasting security of the universe is afforded only by the blessed Calvary Event, the very centerpiece of time and space.
 
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Bob S

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Jesus did not fulfill the "Old Covenant." There was nothing to fulfill, because it was based on the promises of sinful men, and so it never got off the ground.
Interesting concept David. Please elaborate. I was negligent in stating it was the covenant Jesus fulfilled. It was the laws of the covenant He fulfilled. If you refuse to believe Jesus fulfilled (brought to an end) the law then there is no new covenant because Jesus stated that not one jot or one tittle would pass from the law. That would mean that Israel and all who follow would be under every single command found in the words of the covenant. The Jews tell us that the count on the laws was 613. One of the commands was the cutting of the sideburns. That seems like a little thing, right? God gave that command so it really is not trivial at all. SDAs tell us that the so-called ceremonial laws have been done away with. That would be a misnomer because of the jot or tittles. Nothing can be removed from the Law until all is fulfilled. You cannot have it both ways. Jesus in Jn 15 states that He kept the commands of the old covenant and we are to keep the commands that Jesus has given us. Later in the chapter, He tells us what those commands are. 9 ‘As the Father has loved me, so have I loved you. Now remain in my love. 10 If you keep my commands, you will remain in my love, just as I have kept my Father’s commands and remain in his love. 11 I have told you this so that my joy may be in you and that your joy may be complete. 12 My command is this: love each other as I have loved you.13 Greater love has no one than this: to lay down one’s life for one’s friends.

The New Covenant was fulfilled by Christ,
fulfill-to carry out, or bring to realization, as a prophecy or promise. Yes, He did and not with the blood of an animal, but by His own blood he ratified the covenant. So, the old covenant has past and all mankind is under the new covenant. That is different from the old covenant where only the Israelites were obligated or subject to Its laws. So, since we cannot be governed by two covenants at the same time the old one had to go. Our covenant does not require us to keep a lot of rituals like was found in the old one. Mankind's new covenant isn't about keeping days, in fact John in 1JN3:19-24 says:19 This is how we know that we belong to the truth and how we set our hearts at rest in his presence: 20 if our hearts condemn us, we know that God is greater than our hearts, and he knows everything. 21 Dear friends, if our hearts do not condemn us, we have confidence before God 22 and receive from him anything we ask, because we keep his commands and do what pleases him. 23 And this is his command: to believe in the name of his Son, Jesus Christ, and to love one another as he commanded us. 24 The one who keeps God’s commands lives in him, and he in them. And this is how we know that he lives in us: we know it by the Spirit he gave us.

the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world. When Christ committed Himself to the plan of redemption in the heavenly courts above, it became the word of God and, as such, was as good as done.
Do you mean when the Son commited...... Jesus, as we know Him, came to being on this Earth.

Every sinner who was ever and will ever be saved, will have salvation by grace through faith in Jesus Christ to thank. Even the unfallen angels are not secure from further rebellion, except by the blood of Christ. Angelic sinless perfection failed in Heaven. Human sinless perfection failed in Eden. The everlasting security of the universe is afforded only by the blessed Calvary Event, the very centerpiece of time and space.
Amen!
 
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Mercy74

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Oops. Weren't you supposed to "honor" your parents?
If they say you shouldn't observe the Sabbath, then you should obey them.
My parents told me to observe the Sabbath. So I honor YHWH, my parents, and Sabbath all at the same time. 3 commandments "fulfilled" or my cup "filled full" concurrently; at the same time.
 
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Saint Steven

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My parents told me to observe the Sabbath. So I honor YHWH, my parents, and Sabbath all at the same time. 3 commandments "fulfilled" or my cup "filled full" concurrently; at the same time.
Are you saved, or do you have to "endure to the end" to find out?
 
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Mercy74

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I think my only point was to show that the law can be in conflict with itself. Jesus pointed this out on several occasions. Sheep falls in a pit on the Sabbath... what to do, what to do??? (Matt.12:11)
The law is never in conflict with itself! What happens if you fall into a pit during the Sabbath day? Will your brothers save you? It is clear that any rational person would lift their sheep up out of the pit; yet Joseph was left for dead inside the pit. Your understanding of honoring Sabbath is not cogent.
 
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Saint Steven

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Do you honor Sabbath?
No. I am Christian. I do not observe the Sabbath day. (if that's what you mean by "honor")

You sidestepped my question: Are you saved, or do you have to "endure to the end" to find out?
 
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