Do pets & animals go to heaven & do they have souls?

[JESUS=G.O.A.T]

Derek Prince - How To Be Delivered (from Demons & Evil Spirits)

I still don't understand what your point is...and this video which I skimmed through only has made me more confused. Just say what you have to say.

 

[Abraxos]

Though animals do not have souls like us, I do believe that nonetheless animals have a special place in God's heart. God loves His creations and called them very good. He even commanded Noah to bring them onto the Ark to be safe from destruction.

Life is eternal, I see no reason why God would only restrict animals to only this life. Animals do inherently show they have "souls" in a way.

Spoiler: Lions and Cats and Dogs

 

[Kelly Mc]

I'm not here to tell you anything.. my 1s response was a general response to the thread, I by mistake hit (The Reply) that was attached to your post (my mistake) ..the video has a good teaching.. keep an open mind.. maybe there is something in it for you.. or maybe not ? I can't say, The Holy Spirit has a special program designed for everyone with timing that is ideal for each.. I'm just here to learn, Did my pets have souls and personalities and will they be allowed in my mansion..? I think so.. Am I interested in a debate over this with people who seem closed minded and dominated with intellectual and spiritual pride.. ? No. and that goes back to my original post.. aimed at anyone in general.. I know, I lived it.. I hurt myself through intellectual/spiritual pride and arrogance.. ugh !! ..and getting humbled wasn't fun

 

[sunshineforJesus]

I believe since Jesus loves us so and knows how important
our pets are to us,that yes we will see them again in heaven.

 

[Dr Bruce Atkinson]

I´ve been a member of this site for less than a week. It has again been made clear to me why I have for so long avoided sites like this one. My moral character was attacked for stating a common position, and the reason why many hold the position. Speaking the truth in love is important among Christians.

You must have accidentally answered the wrong commenter. Please re-read my comment.
"Attacked"? What did I write that could be regarded as an attack on your moral character or on you personally? Have I called you names or used ad hominem arguments? Have I used crude language? No.

All I have done is state my own position (which may be different from yours). In a debate, everyone argues for their own point of view and marshals logic (and scriptures in this case) to underline their belief. This is part of the purpose of these websites. Please be willing to hear a point of view different from your own. How else can we learn and grow? Neither one of us knows it all.

 

[Dr Bruce Atkinson]

Hi expos4ever,

We may have interacted before, I go to several forums. I don't believe the Bible contains contradictions. Therefore I don't believe it can present to opposing positions. God told Adam that if he ate from the tree of knowledge he would die. He told him, 'dust you are and to dust you shall return'. This accords with what we find in Ecclesiastes. When you say "broader considerations" I assume you mean other passages of Scripture, correct? I would submit that there is nothing in Scripture that runs counter to what we find in Genesis 2. I believe the problem is that many passages are misunderstood. People bring their presuppositions to the text, read the text, and draw a conclusion. However, I don't think the majority ever question their presuppositions. Therein lies the problem. I would submit that most Christians believe that there is a part of man that lives on after the body dies. This is a presupposition that many bring to the text. Therefore when they see passages like Lazarus and the Rich man they assume that this is the part of man that lives on. The problem is that they haven't validated their assumption. You see, there is nothing in the Scriptures that say that part of a man lives on after death. Many use fallacious arguments and inferences in an attempt to prove this point, but it's not found in Scripture. It's also foreign to the beliefs of the Pharisees and the Sadducee.

This is a subject I have studied at great depth and have considered all of the passages typically used to try to prove that man lives on after death. When those passages a studied more deeply and "In Context" one can easily see that they are not teaching that man lives on after death. Since man doesn't live on after death, he doesn't go to Heaven when he dies. Again, there is nothing in the Scriptures that says a man goes to Heaven when he dies. On the contrary we are told several times that man returns to the dust. The apostle Paul said that if there is no resurrection then those who have died in Christ have perished. He didn't say they were in Heaven, he said they've perished. The only hope he holds out to those who have died in Christ is the resurrection.

The scriptures are clear that the resurrection of believers has not yet occurred, meaning that the bodies of deceased believers are still in the grave (1 Corinthians 15:50-54; 1 Thessalonians 4:13-17).

I too have studied the question of an intermediary soul state for many years, including my 6 years in seminary. It is amazing that our conclusions are exactly opposite.

There are a number of indications of an immediate translation of souls into the heavenlies when believers die. The evidence points to an intermediate state where souls/spirits live consciously with God and with other believers prior to the resurrection.

Just off the top, we do have Jesus’ story of Lazarus and the rich man which is quite clear. We have the thief on the cross next to Jesus (“This day thou shalt be with me in Paradise”). The Book of Revelation (6:9) has reference to “souls under the altar who cry out day and night.”

We have Paul writing: “For to me to live is Christ, and to die is gain. If I am to live in the flesh, that means fruitful labor for me. Yet which I shall choose I cannot tell. I am hard pressed between the two. My desire is to depart and be with Christ, for that is far better. But to remain in the flesh is more necessary on your account.” (Phil 1:21-24) There is no guarantee he is not talking about “sleeping” in Christ until the resurrection, but that is not the straightforward or obvious interpretation of his words. He is going to be with Jesus when he dies and almost can’t wait.

Likewise, in 2 Corinthians 5:1-8 Paul writes quite clearly: “For we know that if the tent that is our earthly home is destroyed, we have a building from God, a house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens. For in this tent we groan, longing to put on our heavenly dwelling, if indeed by putting it on we may not be found naked. For while we are still in this tent, we groan, being burdened— not that we would be unclothed, but that we would be further clothed, so that what is mortal may be swallowed up by life. He who has prepared us for this very thing is God, who has given us the Spirit as a guarantee.

So we are always of good courage. We know that while we are at home in the body we are away from the Lord, for we walk by faith, not by sight. Yes, we are of good courage, and we would rather be away from the body and at home with the Lord.”

Then there are the passages about believers being "in Christ" and "Christ in us"... which means forever, starting with conversion. The Holy Spirit is in me and also in heaven. Jesus is at the right hand of the Father in the heavenlies, but I also (even now) am connected to Him. As Paul taught, “But God, being rich in mercy, because of the great love with which he loved us, even when we were dead in our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ—by grace you have been saved— and raised us up with him and seated us with him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus, so that in the coming ages he might show the immeasurable riches of his grace in kindness toward us in Christ Jesus.” (Ephesians 2:4-7)

This is just a start. There are many more passages about Hades and Paradise where souls reside prior to the Last Judgment, prior to the two resurrections to come (one for believers to be with Christ, one for unbelievers to the Lake of Fire). You don't have to believe it, but don't say that there is not sufficient evidence in the Bible for this belief in a soul afterlife with the Lord prior to the resurrection. My guess is that your own evidence to the contrary is far less.

 

[expos4ever]

I don't believe the Bible contains contradictions. Therefore I don't believe it can present to opposing positions.

I think that is a very hard position to make work. Consider this:

How blessed will be the one who seizes and dashes your little ones against the rock.

Here, David prays for gruesome death of infants. How can this be anything other than David's personal wish - how can it possibly reflect the divine truth? God is going to bless those who slaughter infants?

Or this, from Ecclesiastes:

I have seen all the works which have been done under the sun, and behold, all is vanity and striving after wind.

All is vanity? Our works count for nothing? Tell that to Paul. Again, the point is that in some Biblical texts, God allows the author to express a mistaken position; surely this is a literary device to "set up" the opposing truth that is expressed elsewhere in Scripture.

By the way, I agree with your position on the whole "immortal soul" issue. I suggest you remind others of the pernicious influence of Greek "dualistic" thinking in the Western tradition.

 

[Dr Bruce Atkinson]

I am not convinced that the concept of an "eternal soul" is even Biblical. I think there are reasons to suspect that a little Greek Platonism has insinuated itself in the Christian tradition. I believe the Jews had no such concept.

In any event, I am optimist and inclined to believe that God will somehow ensure that nothing good is ultimately lost. And that includes all elements of His creation, not just us.

There is an unhealthy school of thought that believes that God's redemptive plan is "all about us" to the exclusion of the rest of creation. I think this clearly not correct Biblically.

Having been created in the ‘image of God,” it is only logical to propose that human beings may be regarded as essentially three-fold in nature. Many Christians over the centuries have pointed out the trichotomous nature revealed in 1st Thessalonians:
“May the God of peace himself sanctify you wholly; may your SPIRIT and SOUL and BODY be kept sound and blameless at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.”
(I Thessalonians 5:28, my emphasis)

Since humans are first of all unitary beings, the individual’s body, soul, and spirit generally function together and it is not always easy to separate them out. However, Hebrews 4:12 indicates that it is appropriate to use the terms “soul” and “spirit” to indicate separate and different functions. This verse actually accomplishes the division: "For the word of God is living and active, sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing to the division of soul [psyche] and spirit [pneuma], of joints and marrow, and discerning the thoughts and intentions of the heart." The soul and spirit most certainly live on after the death of the physical body. We have God's Spirit to preserve soul life until we get our new resurrected body.

 

[Kelly Mc]

Spiritual Wisdom 1 Corinthians 2:9-10

9 Rather, as it is written: “- No eye has seen, no ear has heard, no heart has imagined, what God has prepared for those who love Him.”

10 But God has revealed it to us by the Spirit. The Spirit searches all things, even the deep things of God.…
---
Ask and You will Receive
22 So also you have sorrow now, but I will see you again and your hearts will rejoice, and no one will take away your joy. 23 In that day you will no longer ask Me anything. Truly, truly, I tell you, whatever you ask the Father in My name, He will give you. 24 Until now you have not asked for anything in My name. Ask and you will receive, so that your joy may be complete.…

... OK, I want my pets in Heaven... Done.

 

[expos4ever]

Just off the top, we do have Jesus’ story of Lazarus and the rich man which is quite clear. We have the thief on the cross next to Jesus (“This day thou shalt be with me in Paradise”). The Book of Revelation (6:9) has reference to “souls under the altar who cry out day and night.”

Let me address the three examples:

1. At least some highly respected and credentialed theologians argue that the "Lazarus and the rich man" is a metaphor that Jesus uses to make a point that has nothing whatsoever to do with the afterlife. We know the account cannot be literal since Lazarus is represented as having a finger and Paul assures us (1 Cor 15) that only Jesus has been given a resurrection body.

2. Thief on the Cross - fair enough, I think your point has merit.

3. Souls under the altar - clearly could be a metaphor. After all, how can an immaterial soul be "under" a physical object like an altar.

 

[expos4ever]

Having been created in the ‘image of God,” it is only logical to propose that human beings may be regarded as essentially three-fold in nature.

I think this is a little bit of a stretch although I think your claim here perhaps has some strength. However, I see no other Biblical evidence for the concept of the "soul" as commonly conceived by Western Christians.

We need to know our history - our 21st century western culture has been strongly influenced by Greek thinking. And it was the Greeks who believed in this notion of a consciousness bearing soul. I believe the historians will tell us this concept has no place in the Hebrew mind.

 

[Dr Bruce Atkinson]

I think this is a little bit of a stretch although I think your claim here perhaps has some strength. However, I see no other Biblical evidence for the concept of the "soul" as commonly conceived by Western Christians.

We need to know our history - our 21st century western culture has been strongly influenced by Greek thinking. And it was the Greeks who believed in this notion of a consciousness bearing soul. I believe the historians will tell us this concept has no place in the Hebrew mind.

None of my evidence comes from the philosophers, Greek or otherwise. If I cannot show evidence from the scriptures themselves, feel free to ignore what I write. Like the witch of Endor episode and other OT evidences of Hades/Paradise.
The real theological proof is from the Incarnation, Cruxifixion, Resurrection, Ascension of Christ (and Pentecost). Jesus' Resurrection killed death. Yes, there will be a "second death" for unbelievers, but Jesus was clear that believers would never die. Obviously, our earthly bodies die, so something which is very much us (more personally identified with us than even our physical bodies) does not die, ever. John 11:25-26: Jesus said to her, “I am the resurrection and the life. He who believes in Me will live, even though he dies. And everyone who lives and believes in Me will never die. Do you believe this?”

 

[expos4ever]

None of my evidence comes from the philosophers, Greek or otherwise.

How do you know this? Are you sure that you not read the word "soul" in the Scriptures and uncritically assume that this term denotes an immaterial consciousness-bearing "thing" that animates a human body?

I am not criticizing you - I am merely pointing out that it is very hard for us to step back and examine our assumptions. And most westerners simply accept on faith the notion of the soul as I have described it in the preceding paragraph.

 

[Sammy-San]

We can look to the garden of Eden as an example of how we were intended to live, and there were animals there, but to address your question. Based on Jesus Riding a horse on his return I would say, yes. We will have an eternity in heaven, pets will not take away from that, and there will be so much more.

Is the horse an angel?

 

[Sammy-San]

IMO, we don't spend eternity in heaven. After the millennial reign of Christ and the great white throne judgement, the old heaven and earth pass away and there is a new heaven and new earth. Heaven, will be a city that will descend to earth and God will live with us forever.

Now, if God created us to worship and fellowship with Him, is heaven, or the new heaven on the new earth, not a place of perpetual worship and fellowship with our creator?

I doubt if there will be time, or need, for pets.

If all the animals had souls, can you imagine all the cattle, pigs, chickens, sheep and other animals that we raise for food?

Someone said, "be careful little mouth"..

I say be careful, then, when you put ole bessy on the Barby.

What about in Eden people interacting with animals?

 

[expos4ever]

The real theological proof is from the Incarnation, Cruxifixion, Resurrection, Ascension of Christ (and Pentecost). Jesus' Resurrection killed death.....etc.

I do not see how this supports your particular take on the meaning of the word "soul". I remind you of at least one usage from the book of Leviticus where the author writes "the soul is in the blood". This usage - and there other examples - certainly challenges the notion that the term "soul" denotes something "immaterial".

 

[expos4ever]

Like the witch of Endor episode and other OT evidences of Hades/Paradise.

The fact that the Bible records an "apparition" is not particularly strong basis for making an ontological claim about the nature of post-death experience. I will have to get back to you on this. I will likely argue that this event, and others like it like the stuff going on at the Transfiguration, are effectively visions intended to communicate important things to those who see them; however, they should not be misunderstood as endorsing the claim that people have a ghost-like immaterial existence after death.

 

[Pilgrim Heir]

You must have accidentally answered the wrong commenter. Please re-read my comment.
"Attacked"? What did I write that could be regarded as an attack on your moral character or on you personally? Have I called you names or used ad hominem arguments? Have I used crude language? No.

All I have done is state my own position (which may be different from yours). In a debate, everyone argues for their own point of view and marshals logic (and scriptures in this case) to underline their belief. This is part of the purpose of these websites. Please be willing to hear a point of view different from your own. How else can we learn and grow? Neither one of us knows it all.

¨lack of integrity¨

 

[JacksBratt]

What about in Eden people interacting with animals?

Sorry, I don't understand what you are implying.

 

[Dr Bruce Atkinson]

How do you know this? Are you sure that you not read the word "soul" in the Scriptures and uncritically assume that this term denotes an immaterial consciousness-bearing "thing" that animates a human body?

I am not criticizing you - I am merely pointing out that it is very hard for us to step back and examine our assumptions. And most westerners simply accept on faith the notion of the soul as I have described it in the preceding paragraph.

Ok. There may be some subliminal indirect influence through Bible translators. The Septuagint (OT) was in Greek around 500 years before Christ. The NT Church has these scriptures available and few could read Hebrew. God chose the NT to be written in the everyday Greek of the first century, so of course there was Greek ways of thinking involved in the translations. This was God's choice, so perhaps God had been preparing the Greek language and thought for just this purpose. We know that the Greeks got some things exactly right and were way ahead of other cultures with regard to early science.

Also, the whole realm of personality, emotion, aesthetics, interpersonal factors, etc. fall into a realm we call psychology (knowledge of the psyche or soul). The question here is not that this realm of human individual expression exists but what we call it and whether it survives a believer's physical death ... prior to receiving resurrection. And do animals have their own species-specific kind of souls and are they capable of being redeemed and resurrected into the new earth situation? I happen to think so, at least those pets loved by God's true children.