The scriptures are clear that the resurrection of believers has not yet occurred, meaning that the bodies of deceased believers are still in the grave (
1 Corinthians 15:50-54;
1 Thessalonians 4:13-17).
Agreed.
I too have studied the question of an intermediary soul state for many years, including my 6 years in seminary. It is amazing that our conclusions are exactly opposite.
There are a number of indications of an immediate translation of souls into the heavenlies when believers die. The evidence points to an intermediate state where souls/spirits live consciously with God and with other believers prior to the resurrection.
This statement presumes that it is possible for some part of man to live on after the death of the body. I reject that premise. Can you show me anything in the Scriptures that shows that there is some part of man that can live on after death?
I would submit that in order to answer this question we need to know what a man is. Moses records the creation of man in Gen 2:7.
7 And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.1 (Gen. 2:7 KJV)
We see that God created the man from the dust of the ground. So, man consists of the dust or the elements of the earth. That is what man is. Then we see that God breathed His breath or spirit of life into the man and the man became something else. He became a living soul. Before he received the breath of life he was not a living soul. From this we see that a soul consists of two things, the man and the breath or spirit of life from God. We know from Scripture that when a man dies God's breath or spirit of life returns to Him and the man's body returns to the dust. That leaves nothing to live on. The soul doesn't exist when the breath or spirit of life leaves. The breath or spirit of life is something from God that gives the man life. The man, created from the dust of the earth returns to the dust. Everything is accounted for there is nothing left to live on.
So, my contention is that man doesn't go on in an intermediate state after the death of the body and that is based on the explanation I just gave. This is why I reject the premise of your argument. Unless it can be shown somehow that there is a part of man that can live on after death any interpretation of the following passages that you've cited should be re-evaluated.
Just off the top, we do have Jesus’ story of Lazarus and the rich man which is quite clear. We have the thief on the cross next to Jesus (“This day thou shalt be with me in Paradise”). The Book of Revelation (6:9) has reference to “souls under the altar who cry out day and night.”
We have Paul writing: “For to me to live is Christ, and to die is gain. If I am to live in the flesh, that means fruitful labor for me. Yet which I shall choose I cannot tell. I am hard pressed between the two. My desire is to depart and be with Christ, for that is far better. But to remain in the flesh is more necessary on your account.” (Phil 1:21-24) There is no guarantee he is not talking about “sleeping” in Christ until the resurrection, but that is not the straightforward or obvious interpretation of his words. He is going to be with Jesus when he dies and almost can’t wait.
Likewise, in 2 Corinthians 5:1-8 Paul writes quite clearly: “For we know that if the tent that is our earthly home is destroyed, we have a building from God, a house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens. For in this tent we groan, longing to put on our heavenly dwelling, if indeed by putting it on we may not be found naked. For while we are still in this tent, we groan, being burdened— not that we would be unclothed, but that we would be further clothed, so that what is mortal may be swallowed up by life. He who has prepared us for this very thing is God, who has given us the Spirit as a guarantee.
So we are always of good courage. We know that while we are at home in the body we are away from the Lord, for we walk by faith, not by sight. Yes, we are of good courage, and we would rather be away from the body and at home with the Lord.”
Then there are the passages about believers being "in Christ" and "Christ in us"... which means forever, starting with conversion. The Holy Spirit is in me and also in heaven. Jesus is at the right hand of the Father in the heavenlies, but I also (even now) am connected to Him. As Paul taught, “But God, being rich in mercy, because of the great love with which he loved us, even when we were dead in our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ—by grace you have been saved— and raised us up with him and seated us with him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus, so that in the coming ages he might show the immeasurable riches of his grace in kindness toward us in Christ Jesus.” (Ephesians 2:4-7)
This is just a start. There are many more passages about Hades and Paradise where souls reside prior to the Last Judgment, prior to the two resurrections to come (one for believers to be with Christ, one for unbelievers to the Lake of Fire). You don't have to believe it, but don't say that there is not sufficient evidence in the Bible for this belief in a soul afterlife with the Lord prior to the resurrection. My guess is that your own evidence to the contrary is far less.
I have addressed all of these in the past as some point. I think if we look more deeply into each passage and consider the context we'll find that they don't support the idea of an intermediate state. If you noticed, none of the passages you posted actually state that some part of man lives on after death. That idea is being inferred from these passages. That inference is based on the presupposition that there is a part of man that can live on after death. What I said above about the creation of man is stated plainly in the Scripture, I didn't infer it.
In order to look at the passages you posted we would need to put in some time and effort. One of the easiest passages to address is the thief on the cross. Jesus said,
43 And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, To day shalt thou be with me in paradise. (Lk. 23:43 KJV)
The original texts didn't have punctuation, that is added by the translators. The translator uses his understanding when punctuating the text. Therefore his theological bias will influence the way he punctuates it. By simply moving the comma from before today to after today we completely change the sentence.
43 And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee To day, shalt thou be with me in paradise. (Lk. 23:43 KJV)
By placing the comma after today the time frame of when Jesus and the thief being in paradise changes. Either interpretation is possible therefore, this passage cannot used to support the idea of an intermediate state.
You quoted 2 Cor. 5. You bolded the part about being at home in the body and would rather be apart from the body. To use this as a argument for an intermediate state apart from the physical body runs counter to what Paul had just said. You quoted verses 1-8 in which Paul said.
For we know that if
our earthly house of this tabernacle were dissolved, we have
a building of God, an house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens.
2 For in this we groan,
earnestly desiring to be clothed upon with our house which is from heaven:
3 If so be that being clothed
we shall not be found naked.
4 For we that are in this tabernacle do groan, being burdened:
not for that we would be unclothed, but clothed upon, that mortality might be swallowed up of life. (2 Cor. 5:1-4 KJV)
Here Paul is really discussing to states of being, mortal and immortal. However, notice that he rejects the Greek idea of leaving his physical body. He says not that we should be found naked. He's not looking to put off his physical body. Notice verse 4, he says, "not that we would be unclothed," that is without a body. He then says, "but clothed upon" or "further clothed" as it is in the version you quoted. The Greek word actually means to put on over, as one would put on a coat over their clothes. This is also confirmed in the end of verse 4 when he says, "that mortality might be swallowed up of life". He's not looking to put off his physical body, he's looking for his mortality to be swallowed up by immortality. This is the context for his later words that you bolded.
Also, if you look at the Greek words that are translated a absent and present, that you bolded, in the KJV you'll find that they mean to be with or away from one's own people or homeland. Who are the Christians own people? Wouldn't that be the "body" of Christ? It's Paul's desire to be absent from the body of Christ and present with Christ. That's his desire. We know that Paul didn't believe in an intermediate state and that when one died they were dead until the resurrection. The dead have no concept of time so when one would die the next thing they would experience is the resurrection. It would be as if no time had passed at all.
That we know Paul didn't believe in an intermediate state can be seen from his words in 1 Cor 15.
16
For if the dead rise not, then is not Christ raised:
17 And if Christ be not raised, your faith is vain; ye are yet in your sins.
18
Then they also which are fallen asleep in Christ are perished. (1 Cor. 15:16-18 KJV)
Here Paul says that if the dead don't rise then who have died in Christ have perished. He doesn't say they are in Heaven or an intermediate state, he said they've perished. The only hope Paul holds out for the dead in Christ is the resurrection.
There's more that could be said on this passage as well as the others you quoted. If you'd like we can address the others too. Let's look at what you believe is the strongest evidence.[/QUOTE]
