Do masons build?

[Skip Sampson]

So how do you support yourself, Skip?

Retired military, retired teacher, social security, and substitute teaching. They keep the wolf from my door. Cordially, Skip.

 

[Simpleman25]

Are you stating for the record that a candidate in your jurisdiction is walked through the cipher ritual book before taking his EA degree, and that he has read through the obligation before he is asked to take it?

Again, you really should read my posts before responding to them. Here's what I actually said:See if you can improve on your accuracy from here on out. Cordially, Skip.

During the EA degree the candidate recites his part of the ceremony. How do you think he knew what to say? I was taught by my coach how to read the cipher. After that he helped my memorize my part. All degree work is done from memory. No script can be used inside the lodge during degree work.

I'm shocked that you weren't aware of how this takes place. Then again I've proven to you that there are things you can't learn from reading state GLs. Some things can only be learned once you're in the lodge.

It's similar to the comment made earlier that you brushed aside. Certain words and phrases used in all of the early US historical papers came straight from freemasonry.

Instead of rudely brushing it aside one would think that you would want to know this obscure knowledge.

You were once again given first hand accounts, yet all you can muster are childish insults.

Quit asking for honest dialogue if you're truly not going to recognize it when presented to you.

 

[Albion]

Cornerstone Ministries, Fayetteville, NC, research, writing & teaching about cults and false religions (i.e., non-Christian), and my income from it averaged $0.00 per month, which is the norm for my ministry work.

What IS "Cornerstone Ministries?" Is that a church? And if so, to what extent is it your organization? and what is meant by your "ministry?"

And of course, the other question you didn't answer: How long you were a Mason?

 

[Skip Sampson]

What IS "Cornerstone Ministries?" Is that a church? And if so, to what extent is it your organization? and what is meant by your "ministry?"

It is a private foundation under the IRS Code, Section 501(C)(3). It is 'mine' because I am its director, and sole employee. I see it as a support entity for those interested in matters under its purview.

And of course, the other question you didn't answer: How long you were a Mason?

Thought you already knew that. I am not a Mason, nor have I ever been one. I have, however, been referred to as a WM in some circles. Cordially, Skip.

 

[Albion]

It is a private foundation under the IRS Code, Section 501(C)(3). It is 'mine' because I am its director, and sole employee. I see it as a support entity for those interested in matters under its purview.

Thought you already knew that.

Well, I remembered something about a foundation or something like that, but I hadn't concerned myself with the details before. But I'm wondering what one needs a tax-free foundation for--just to go about the country denouncing churches and organizations with which you disagree--especially if (as you said) you take no money from it??

That said, everything online that refers to the Cornerstone Ministries of Fayetteville, NC indicates that it is a functioning church, not your office or home--and you are not shown anywhere as a minister or employee, so what is that all about...or do you just use their mailing address?

I am not a Mason, nor have I ever been one.

I see.

 

[Skip Sampson]

During the EA degree the candidate recites his part of the ceremony. How do you think he knew what to say?

In his obligations, he repeats exactly what the WM says to him. In other places the candidate may be prompted in his reply, showing that it is all new to him, and that he has memorized nothing.

I was taught by my coach how to read the cipher.

I'm sure you were, but not before the EA degree. Sorry, but I've never heard of an EA candidate memorizing his parts before he undergoes the EA degree. I think you are referring to the EA catechism which the newly initiated Mason must recite from memory, following the degree, and which does include the obligation in many of the rituals I've seen.

More to the point, you are not answering my questions directly. Here they are:

Are you stating for the record that a candidate in your jurisdiction is walked through the cipher ritual book before taking his EA degree, and that he has read through the obligation before he is asked to take it?

So, let's have a direct answer to that question.

Finally, I look forward to hearing the views of the other Masons on this forum on your statements. Hate to seem disrespectful, but I really don't believe you are being entirely truthful on this matter. I think you and Albion have decided to resort to deception in an attempt to neutralize my questions. He denies the EA obligations has any penalties; you claim to have seen the entire EA degree cipher so you could memorize your parts before you actually went through the degree. As I said, good luck with that.

All degree work is done from memory. No script can be used inside the lodge during degree work.

Indeed, that's true for the officers and members having speaking parts; however, the candidate has no parts to memorize during the degree nor has the lodge provided him with the degree itself in advance, your comments notwithstanding. He has a very passive part, and very little to say. Cordially, Skip.

 

[smaneck]

Hate to seem disrespectful, but I really don't believe you are being entirely truthful on this matter. I think you and Albion have decided to resort to deception in an attempt to neutralize my questions. He denies the EA obligations has any penalties; you claim to have seen the entire EA degree cipher so you could memorize your parts before you actually went through the degree.

And we should believe you over them, why?

 

[Simpleman25]

How more direct do I need to be?

The candidate does not repeat what the WM says. The candidate plays a role in all 3 degrees. A large speaking part that has been memorized. In all 3 degrees!

You're accomplishing a number of things with these last few posts with me. First and foremost you are showing that you know less about freemasonry than even I thought. I've been falsely giving you more credit than you deserve.

The candidate isn't prompted to say anything. He recites it all from memory. Some lodges are known to help the candidates during the actual degree work. My degree team doesn't allow that. Memorizing his part shows us that he is working to become a mason.

Whether you believe me or not means little to me. I'm proving once again that you truly don't want honesty from masons. I've given you nothing but the truth. You continue your little song and dance routine. This is why I think you are a puppet for your two masters. Your inability to accept cold hard facts laid out before you.

My comments notwithstanding? So we are supposed to believe you? Someone that has NEVER been in a lodge meeting?

Or believe me. A mason that has performed degree work for 30+ years?

Come on Skip. I thought you were better than this.

 

[smaneck]

Come on Skip. I thought you were better than this.

Okay, now your nose is growing.

 

[Albion]

Finally, I look forward to hearing the views of the other Masons on this forum on your statements. Hate to seem disrespectful, but I really don't believe you are being entirely truthful on this matter. I think you and Albion have decided to resort to deception in an attempt to neutralize my questions.

That's certainly a good way to have a civil discussion, all right.

But anyway, I'm still looking forward to your explanation of the issues I raised in my last post to you.

Indeed, that's true for the officers and members having speaking parts; however, the candidate has no parts to memorize during the degree nor has the lodge provided him with the degree itself in advance, your comments notwithstanding. He has a very passive part, and very little to say. Cordially, Skip.

Frankly, I think this is much ado about nothing.

In any number of situations in life we do not know exactly what is going to be said to us in advance of the event. A job interview, for instance. The only thing that matters is whether we have any choice in the response. You tried to say that the candidate could not possibly get out of it if he didn't approve of what was put to him. That's ridiculous. I even told you of my own experience.

Your speculation on this matter is contrived and without merit. No one is forced into anything. And if you decide, as a fallback position, to say that he ignorantly goes ahead anyway, out of embarrassment or something like that, the only credible scenario for a person like that who was uncomfortable after the fact would be to resign (or in the case of an EA, just not go ahead to further degrees).That almost never happens, which demonstrates how unrealistic your guesswork is.

 

[Albion]

Skip has apparently signed off without responding to my post inquiring about his supposed ministry...and without replying to smaneck's very reasonable question about why anyone should believe him (who never has been a Mason) instead of the Masons here who have experienced ceremonies that he can only imagine.

 

[Skip Sampson]

But I'm wondering what one needs a tax-free foundation for--just to go about the country denouncing churches and organizations with which you disagree--especially if (as you said) you take no money from it??

Seemed like a good idea when I first started out. It was more an organizational vehicle than anything else as money has little to do with my efforts. I travel very little, by the way, and it's not a matter of whether I disagree with a group or not; rather, it's a matter of them teaching doctrine inconsistent with Biblical Christianity. My goal is merely to point out such differences so people interested in such matters can know about it. I present the facts, the reader can decide for himself.

That said, everything online that refers to the Cornerstone Ministries of Fayetteville, NC indicates that it is a functioning church, not your office or home--and you are not shown anywhere as a minister or employee, so what is that all about...or do you just use their mailing address?

Different group, having nothing to do with me. Cordially, Skip.

 

[Skip Sampson]

And we should believe you over them, why?

Assess the facts presented by both sides and decide for yourself. You've made conclusions on the Tea Party, even though you are not a member. So too, you can make conclusions on Masonry from the facts presented.

Here are some things to consider:
1. Albion denies there are penalties in the obligations of the degrees, even though the same ritual containing them refers to them as such in the discussion concerning temperance. Too, the EA sign (hand across the throat) is also in reference to those penalties. These are facts that you can research and confirm yourself; thus, you can determine for yourself who is telling the truth.

2. Ask Albion why he hasn't answered my questions in my post #459. Which of us is being open and responsive on this thread?

3. Simpleman25 claims that the EA candidates in his jurisdiction have seen the EA ritual and have been coached by a lodge member to memorized their parts in the upcoming degree. In fact, candidates never see the ritual of the degree before hand unless they look it up online themselves. I've never heard of a lodge that showed a candidate a cipher ritual (i.e., a ritual book written in simple code) before his degree work nor would any other Mason on this forum state that happens in their jurisdiction. What Simpleman25 refers to occurs after the degree work, in which the man must recite from memory key parts of the degree, often including the obligation. As above, you now have two different statements that you can assess, two different views that you can believe or not believe. What will you do? If I am right, and no lodge has an EA candidate memorize his obligation before he is initiated, that would make Simpleman a liar. If he is right and it's a matter of routine with lodges, that makes me ignorant of established custom. While you are at it, ask him on what basis he refers to EMFJ as a cult. See for yourself what facts he has based that charge on and how forthcoming he is to support his claims.

So you can determine who to believe from your own review of facts presented and conclusions made. The internet has made ignorance unforgiveable, as the truth, which rarely hides, but is often obfuscated, is far more available to its seeker. 'Who is telling the truth?' should be your focus. You might consider a Masonic forum as a source for that determination. Many will allow non-Masons to ask questions and Simpleman25's contention about the ritual would be a good one to ask. They won't tell you the ritual itself, but I'd bet they'd confirm what I've said.

Beyond that, consider why Albion and Simpleman25 are acting in such a manner. I think it is by design, and the Masons on this forum have decided that refusal to discuss these matters isn't working, so they are concentrating on destroying my credibility. Few non-Masons understand what goes on in lodge ritual, let alone the doctrine taught by the GL. So if they claim I'm wrong, how would anyone else know? We've seen their outright deception in the matters noted above, and I think it'll get worse. So watch how the above issues progress over the next few weeks and make up your own mind about who to believe. Cordially, Skip.

 

[Skip Sampson]

How more direct do I need to be?

More direct than that. I ask again: does the EA candidate read and memorize the EA obligation before he is initiated?

The candidate does not repeat what the WM says.

In the obligation he does. In the ritual books I have, and I have many, they are uniform in telling the candidate to repeat what the WM says during the obligation. Only after the degree, during the proficiency work, is that man required to memorize the obligation.

Ok, other Masons, time to weigh in: in your jurisdictions, do the candidates see the ritual and memorize key parts before they are initiated, passed and raised? Cordially, Skip.

 

[Skip Sampson]

Skip has apparently signed off without responding to my post

Sooo, among my many sins is that I don't immediate answer your questions? And this from a man who won't even identify his GL jurisdiction and avoids my question concerning EA candidates memorizing ritual beforehand? Bit of a reach, I'd say, or a sign of desperation. Cordially, Skip.

 

[Albion]

Sooo, among my many sins is that I don't immediate answer your questions?

"Immediately" wasn't the issue. I noticed that you went on to discuss something else with another poster after our questions were posted--then signed off. I would ordinarily not do that, but you're right that some other people might think it routine.

 

[Albion]

Seemed like a good idea when I first started out. It was more an organizational vehicle than anything else as money has little to do with my efforts. I travel very little, by the way, and it's not a matter of whether I disagree with a group or not; rather, it's a matter of them teaching doctrine inconsistent with Biblical Christianity.

That IS a matter of you disagreeing with them.

Anyway, you maintain a tax-free organization for what reason now? No one would maintain such an organization except for the financial benefits...but you don't spend any (or is it "little"?). You can't just stockpile contributions for no purpose as I understand tax-free organizations. In fact, I've never heard of a one-man 501 (C) (3) organization, but perhaps it's possible.

My goal is merely to point out such differences so people interested in such matters can know about it. I present the facts, the reader can decide for himself.

Oh, you do protest too much, Skip. The words--the accusations--you've leveled at Masonry cannot fairly be described in such neutral or inoffensive terms. What you do in the case of religions and churches that you disagree with, I of course don't know.

Getting back to the issue...

That said, everything online that refers to the Cornerstone Ministries of Fayetteville, NC indicates that it is a functioning church, not your office or home--and you are not shown anywhere as a minister or employee, so what is that all about...or do you just use their mailing address?

Different group, having nothing to do with me. Cordially, Skip.

Different group using the same name and same address as your organization, but having nothing to do with you??

Would you like to try that one again???



.

 

[Skip Sampson]

I noticed that you went on to discuss something else with another poster after our questions were posted--then signed off. I would ordinarily not do that, but you're right that some other people might think it routine.

Nice you have so little to do that you can follow my presence on this forum, but here are some things to consider:
1. I had not seen the new posts;
2. I had other things to do;
3. I often like to think about what is posted before I respond to it.

Now perhaps you might find enough time to respond to my post #459.

That IS a matter of you disagreeing with them.

No, it's a matter of them disagreeing with Biblical Christianity.

Different group using the same name and same address as your organization, but having nothing to do with you??

Your standards of analysis and proof leave much to be desired. They do not have the same address, beyond the fact that they too are located in Fayetteville, NC, which has a population of about 200,000.

Albion, you are making a fool of yourself by such absurd comments. Perhaps you should try attacking my credibility and veracity on the basis of facts, not emotion, innuendo or falsehoods. Start by remembering that truth is one of the 'tenets' of your Masonic 'profession,' and not just an idea limited to Masonic ritual. Cordially, Skip.

 

[Albion]

Here are some things to consider:
1. Albion denies there are penalties in the obligations of the degrees, even though the same ritual containing them refers to them as such in the discussion concerning temperance. Too, the EA sign (hand across the throat) is also in reference to those penalties. These are facts that you can research and confirm yourself; thus, you can determine for yourself who is telling the truth.

You have no personal knowledge of what happens in lodge. You have asked this and similar questions of various Masons here on CF and gotten clear and definite answers. But you prefer not to believe them. You have read books on Masonry, etc. etc.

But this is hardly OUR fault, that you will not take the truth for an answer.

 

[Albion]

Now perhaps you might find enough time to respond to my post #459.

I am willing to do that, but I began my questioning of who, exactly, you are and what your operation is all about...previous to that. In my online experience, it's understood that questions are taken in order.

Besides, there is a whole history of you quizzing Masons in one thread or another, and I am first now trying to find out who this person is who runs a one-man non-profit organization but spends no or almost no money on the purpose for that organization to exist...an organization that you say--and your press releases--say has the address and name of a functioning church, but which has no connection to you (so you have said). You do not even reveal your church affiliation, yet your tax-supported pastime is lecturing people that your version of Christianity is the true one. Yes, I'd like to have answers.

Your standards of analysis and proof leave much to be desired. They do not have the same address, beyond the fact that they too are located in Fayetteville, NC, which has a population of about 200,000.

"Cornerstone Ministries, Fayetteville, NC, research, writing & teaching about cults and false religions (i.e., non-Christian), and my income from it averaged $0.00 per month, which is the norm for my ministry work."

It's all over the internet that your address is the same as their address. If that can be explained, please do so and settle this for us. What is YOUR organization's registered address, if not their address?. And how can you use their name, even if the address is different.

Are you ordained? You used the word "ministry" for your work (which I know can have different meanings).

Albion, you are making a fool of yourself by such absurd comments. Perhaps you should try attacking my credibility and veracity on the basis of facts, not emotion, innuendo or falsehoods. Start by remembering that truth is one of the 'tenets' of your Masonic 'profession,' and not just an idea limited to Masonic ritual. Cordially, Skip.

I'm willing to suffer such insults in order to get to the truth of this matter. You have asked us a million questions and called us all sorts of names. Now it's time for you to come clean...and there's plenty about it that frankly doesn't appear to add up.