Do masons build?

[Simpleman25]

I'll start a new thread about his group being a cult.

Its on another forum right now. I'll cut and paste it here.

 

[pyramid33]

Is anyone else getting dizzy from skips comments?

Nope. A little tired of the "Im in a special group, and you aren't" attitude though.

 

[smaneck]

Nope. A little tired of the "Im in a special group, and you aren't" attitude though.

Funny, I haven't seen a hint of that so far. I'll I've seen is Christians attacking other Christians who belong to an organization they don't approve of and Christians who belong to that organization defending themselves. That is how every thread on Freemasonry appears to start. I've yet to see Masons start a "we're so special" thread.

 

[duane washum]

"Ex-Masons for Jesus," as I recall it, is just a group founded by a former Mason who was bitter over having been expelled for repeatedly violating Masonic rules; as I recall, he did not leave Masonry because he "found Christ" or discovered anything about Masonry that was in conflict with Christianity. Yet that is the deceptive message that the name of the organization would suggest to the unwary reader.

Would be curious as to who it is you claim is the founder of EMFJ, and where it is you got your supposed information about the founder being expelled from Freemasonry?

As to the issue of EMFJ being accused of being a cult, here is our Statement of Faith. If you truly wish to attack it, by all means do so. It might prove something to the readers:
Statement of Faith of Ex Masons For Jesus:
•We believe in one God who is eternally existent in three persons--Father, Son and Holy Spirit who are infinite in glory, wisdom, holiness, justice, power and love.
•We believe that God created everything out of nothing for His own purpose and pleasure through the person of the Son.
•We believe man was created in the image and likeness of God; but through the sin of Adam, man fell into sin and is, therefore, lost apart from Christ. When he sinned, mankind incurred both physical and spiritual death; thus man became eternally separated from God and is incapable of providing redemption for himself. Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.
•We believe that the 66 books that comprise the Bible are the plenary, verbally inspired Word of God, inerrant and infallible in the original manuscripts, and the guide and final authority in matters of faith and day to day life, interpreted by the Holy Spirit to each individual believer.
•We believe Jesus Christ is true man and God, who in His incarnation was conceived of the Holy Spirit and born of the virgin, Mary.
•We believe in His earthly ministry Jesus Christ lived a sinless life that fully pleased His Father and that He performed miracles.
•We believe that the Lord Jesus Christ of His own free will died on the cross to be the sacrifice for the redemption of man and that He bore the judgment required by God's holy justice against sin, thus making it possible for God to remain just and yet at the same time to justify those who believe in His Son Jesus Christ.
•We believe by the power of God, Jesus Christ was raised from the dead in the same body now glorified. He ascended into Heaven where, at the right hand of God, He continually makes intercession for us.
•We believe the Holy Spirit is co-equal with the Father and the Son; regenerates the believing sinner; indwells, guides, instructs and empowers the believer for Godly living and service. The Holy Spirit guides and gives power to the church, the body of Christ, to fulfill the Great Commission, and convicts the world of sin, man's un-righteousness, and resulting judgment by a Holy God.
•We believe in the existence and personality of Satan, his complete opposition to God and his power over the unregenerate.
•We believe Salvation is the gift of God and includes the forgiveness of sins, the imputation of the Righteousness of Jesus Christ, and the gift of eternal life. Union with the triune God provides all blessings in this life and the life hereafter.
•We believe salvation is received by faith alone, apart from all good works and merit. Faith which leads to salvation produces repentance in the life of a believer.
•We believe that those who by faith alone and through no merit of their own receive the Lord Jesus Christ as Savior are miraculously born again of the Holy Spirit and become children of God and partakers of His divine nature and eternal life.
•We believe that the Holy Spirit baptizes all true believers, that He indwells believers, bestows spiritual gifts upon them, and empowers them for service and holy living.
•We believe that by His Word and power God has given us everything pertaining to life and godliness, including not only salvation from the penalty of sin but instruction in righteousness for present sanctification and victorious living to the glory of God.
•We believe that the ordinances of water baptism and the Lord's Supper are to be observed by all believers in obedience to our Lord until His return.
•We believe the church, the Body of Christ, is composed of all those who have heard the Gospel of grace through faith and have been regenerated by the Spirit of God.
•We believe the purpose of the church is to witness concerning Jesus Christ according to the Scriptures, and to preach the Gospel among all nations.
•We believe that at death the souls of the redeemed pass immediately into Christ's presence, to remain there until the resurrection of the body at Christ's return for His bride. We also believe that at death the souls of the lost go to Hell, where they will remain until they are brought before Christ at the Great White Throne final judgment to be judged according to their works and cast into the Lake of Fire, there to remain eternally.
•We believe Jesus Christ will come again to receive unto Himself those who believe in Him, that where He is, they may be also. He will come again personally and visibly to establish His kingdom.
•We believe that those who are following Christ do not walk in darkness. Conversely, if a man is walking in darkness he is not following Christ.

 

[Skip Sampson]

I'll start a new thread about his group being a cult.

Glad to see you have taken my advice. Such a thread would be interesting, or at least entertaining. I'd suggest you start with your definition of a 'cult,' so we understand the basis of your criticism. Cordially, Skip.

 

[Skip Sampson]

Oh, indeed I do. I actually read the Bible.

A notable achievement, but it is clear you did not understand what you were reading. Otherwise, you would not have written as you did.

The Mosaic Law was established for the Jewish nation only, as it was the only nation under God. It addressed, in general, three categories: moral, social and ceremonial. It established high standards for the Jewish nation as it would be the people through whom the Messiah would come. Too, it showed them something of God's own standards, and taught that no man could possibly meet them on his own. That's why the nation had mechanisms for atoning for violations of the law.

Upon the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus, the Mosaic Law was replaced by the Law of Grace, an entirely different set of rules. Jesus himself noted his role in this:

Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. (Matt 5:17)

That action is further explained by Paul:

Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus, because through Christ Jesus the law of the Spirit who gives life has set you free from the law of sin and death. For what the law was powerless to do because it was weakened by the flesh, God did by sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh to be a sin offering. And so he condemned sin in the flesh, in order that the righteous requirement of the law might be fully met in us, who do not live according to the flesh but according to the Spirit. (Romans 8:1 - 4)

The early church addressed the issue of keeping the Mosaic Law, and Peter's comments in Acts 15 and their handling of the issue is illuminating.

Directly appropriate to your comments on catfish is Peter's experience in Acts 10, where he was told: "Do not call anything impure that God has made clean." Since Jesus fulfilled the Mosaic Law, the Law's prohibitions on foods was also done away with; thus, our enjoyment of eating catfish is not prohibited by God, as it was created by him. We can also enjoy bacon for the same reason.

As to homosexuality, note in Romans 8 quoted above the statement "righteous requirement of the law." What he meant is that the moral and ethical statements of the Law should still play a role in our lives. Though the Law of Moses is fulfilled, and no longer operative in our salvation, God's views as stated in the Law still reflect his views. That is why murder, theft, adultery and so forth are still wrong, but keeping clear of them do not aid in our salvation. Only faith in Jesus accomplishes that.

As you can imagine by now, that also pertains to homosexuality. God's prohibition as you noted still reflects his views, and should reflect ours as well if we truly proclaim him to be our God. Read Romans 2:18 - 27 to see Paul's confirmation of this. In this day of AIDS and HIV, his comment in verse 27 is especially haunting. That such men are not among the saved is clear from 1 Cor 6:9 - 10:

Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders, nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God.

So, I stand by my statement that you have no clue as to Biblical doctrine. You fail to understand that the Christian has moved from the Law of Moses to the Law of Grace. Just as I am no longer under the laws of Florida, but now under the law of North Carolina, the laws of Florida have no control over me. Note also that Jesus' fulfillment of the Law of Moses was for all mankind, but the Law of Grace is only operative on those who believe in him.

Your failure to understand that point is probably because you've never been challenged on your Biblical views. Steel sharpens steel, and I'd guess we both can learn from each other if the debate is kept open and honest. Of course, this topic is beyond the scope of the thread, so I'd suggest, if you want to continue, opening a separate thread in an appropriate place on this forum. Cordially, Skip.

 

[pyramid33]

Upon the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus, the Mosaic Law was replaced by the Law of Grace, an entirely different set of rules.

Actually, the mercy of the crucifixion is for the law of God instead of how you said, replacing it.

One is directed to understand the perfection of the law of God instead of flat out reject it as many have chosen to profess of the new testament. God is perfect, not some failure as those proclaiming that Gods law isn't good.

 

[Skip Sampson]

Most people who write and speak against Masonry (or Christianity or Zionism or Capitalism or whatever movement is supposed to hold the planet in its grip at the moment) simpl writes and speaks on the subject wherever an audience can be found. They do not form one-man tax-exempt charitable corporations and then not take any money from them in order to fund their efforts.

How many such 'people' have you identified? And how many of them have not formed such charitable corporations? I'll bet you can't back up the statement factually. By the way, mine is a private foundation, not a "charitable corporation." I guess you missed that nuance in my post #464.

Ex-Masons for Jesus," as I recall it, is just a group founded by a former Mason who was bitter over having been expelled for repeatedly violating Masonic rules

I'll bet you can't back that up either.

we don't seem to have any new questions about Masonry to help anyone with at this time.

Probably because you haven't addressed the ones that have been asked. Despite answering your questions, you still refuse to identify your jurisdiction. Why is the question so difficult for you?

I used to think Masons didn't discuss Masonry in a reasoned, logical and analytical fashion because they didn't want the actual truth to be exposed. It now occurs to me that they do not do so because they don't know how, that they are simply incapable of reasoned analysis on that topic. I'll have to consider that problem a bit further, but I think there's a lot of truth to it. Certainly many of the posts by Masons on this forum point to that conclusion.

But, I'll keep an open mind. Since Simpleman25 has at last decided to share his criticism of EMFJ with us, we can use that thread to support or deny my theory. Should be illuminating. Cordially, Skip.

 

[Albion]

I used to think Masons didn't discuss Masonry in a reasoned, logical and analytical fashion because they didn't want the actual truth to be exposed. It now occurs to me that they do not do so because they don't know how, that they are simply incapable of reasoned analysis on that topic. I'll have to consider that problem a bit further, but I think there's a lot of truth to it.

So basically, you're just spinning your wheels looking for something, anything, that will work against Masonry.

 

[Skip Sampson]

So basically, you're just spinning your wheels looking for something, anything, that will work against Masonry.

No, I've found that the truth works very well against it. Cordially, Skip.

 

[smaneck]

The Mosaic Law was established for the Jewish nation only, as it was the only nation under God. . . .
Upon the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus, the Mosaic Law was replaced by the Law of Grace, an entirely different set of rules.

In that case there is no reason to refer to homosexuality as an abomination either.

Directly appropriate to your comments on catfish is Peter's experience in Acts 10, where he was told: "Do not call anything impure that God has made clean."

Except that was clearly a reference to gentiles being converted to Christianity.

As to homosexuality, note in Romans 8 quoted above the statement "righteous requirement of the law." What he meant is that the moral and ethical statements of the Law should still play a role in our lives.

And who is to say what is ethical or moral and what is merely ritual or ceremonial?

Though the Law of Moses is fulfilled, and no longer operative in our salvation, God's views as stated in the Law still reflect his views.

Then it is God's view that catfish is an abomination.

That such men are not among the saved is clear from 1 Cor 6:9 - 10:

Same verse also says alcoholics are not saved. Is that true?

 

[Simpleman25]

Look out everyone! One of skips handlers came roaring in to defend his pupil.

 

[duane washum]

So, when does your new thread start? I think it's a great idea.

 

[Simpleman25]

You know poor skip is in trouble if he has to call in one of his cult leaders to support him.

You'll get my new thread when its posted. Currently I'm away from my home computer where my file on your cult is located.

Right now I'm watching cars go fast and enjoying Texas BBQ.

 

[Skip Sampson]

smaneck:
I had noted earlier that such discussions were more than welcome, but on a different thread. The topic of this one is Freemasonry.

After considering your last post, I think it clear that such discussions would not be very fruitful. In general, I do not discuss Biblical doctrine with non-Christians, at least beyond the topic of salvation, though I was willing to make an exception in your case. It is now apparent that I greatly over-rated your capability for reasoned analysis. Bottom line is that I think you'd rather pontificate than discuss, and you can do that without my involvement. Cordially, Skip.

 

[smaneck]

After considering your last post, I think it clear that such discussions would not be very fruitful. In general, I do not discuss Biblical doctrine with non-Christians, at least beyond the topic of salvation, though I was willing to make an exception in your case. It is now apparent that I greatly over-rated your capability for reasoned analysis. Bottom line is that I think you'd rather pontificate than discuss, and you can do that without my involvement. Cordially, Skip.

Amazing how rude and insulting you can be and yet still sign "cordially."

 

[Simpleman25]

Amazing how rude and insulting you can be and yet still sign "cordially."

He's been questioned on that for years. Not so amazingly, he's failed to answer completely. Or he's spun that merry go round.

Did you notice that his post to you was similar to the way he responds to masons? Insulting, while proclaiming some form of superiority.

This is all part of the cult culture he's a part of.

 

[Skip Sampson]

Amazing how rude and insulting you can be and yet still sign "cordially."

I don't like to sugarcoat things, nor do I hide my views. Too, I don't like wasting my time, and I believe my comments to be based on the facts at hand.

I take questions on this forum seriously, and I gave you some pretty good commentary for your consideration. You pretty much blew it off. Fine, your choice; but if you do not wish discussion, don't raise the issue. Cordially, Skip.

 

[duane washum]

"Ex-Masons for Jesus," as I recall it, is just a group founded by a former Mason who was bitter over having been expelled for repeatedly violating Masonic rules; as I recall, he did not leave Masonry because he "found Christ" or discovered anything about Masonry that was in conflict with Christianity. Yet that is the deceptive message that the name of the organization would suggest to the unwary reader.

I have already posted to you on this matter once, as well as having sent you two private messages. Still waiting for your replay as to who it is you claim is the founder of EMFJ, and under what conditions you claim to "recall" he left Freemasonry.

 

[Skip Sampson]

Still waiting for your replay as to who it is you claim is the founder of EMFJ, and under what conditions you claim to "recall" he left Freemasonry.

I don't think he's man enough to answer. Moreover, he's not 'Mason' enough either. As you know, one of their principal tenets is truth, as the OK GL explains:

Truth is a divine attribute, and the foundation of every virtue. To be good and true, is the first lesson we are taught in Masonry. On this theme we contemplate and by its dictates endeavor to regulate our conduct. Hence, while influenced by this principle, hypocrisy and deceit are unknown among us, sincerity and plain dealing distinguish us, and the heart and tongue join in promoting each other's welfare and rejoicing in each other's prosperity. (Murrow Masonic Monitor, 1988, pg. 43)

I don't see much of that tenet in operation among the Masons with whom I deal. Albion, like Simpleman25 for that matter, appears to be more comfortable with innuendo and hearsay than with the facts. Cordially, Skip.