Do masons build?

[Skip Sampson]

I would strongly urge you find a different kind of ministry focused on the love of Christ.

Many thanks for your concern, but that is already the focus of my ministry. Cordially, Skip.

 

[Skip Sampson]

Just out of curiosity, can you expand on those dangers?

Freemasonry is a positive danger to any Christian because it offers a salvation-by-works philosophy covered with a thin Biblical veneer. To become a 'good' Mason is to allow it to dilute Christianity with a universalist doctrine that effectively neutralizes a man's Christian witness.

To join Freemasonry is to establish a partnership with god, whoever that might be, under Masonic auspices. To undergo the ritual is to be transformed in the mental, moral and spiritual sense into something different. Just what spirit does the transforming is never discussed, at least in Lodge degrees. To become a Freemason is to build out of your body a spiritual temple by making it morally and mentally spotless, meaning that the Masonic deity make itself at home in such a temple regardless of your religious beliefs, or even if you have any. To live a life spotless moral conduct is to make you acceptable to god, whoever that is, and pretty much guarantees you entrance into heaven at your death. To become a Master Mason is to be raised into a new life, one which bears no resemblance to your former condition, and you will be charged with using the Masonic savior, the fictional Hiram Abif as your role model.

The above is clearly taught in Masonic ritual, and is part of the reason I warned of the real danger to any Christian. Cordially, Skip.

 

[Jane_the_Bane]

Freemasonry is a positive danger to any Christian because it offers a salvation-by-works philosophy covered with a thin Biblical veneer. To become a 'good' Mason is to allow it to dilute Christianity with a universalist doctrine that effectively neutralizes a man's Christian witness.

Just so we're clear: Are you saying that a world view that encourages people to be the best person they can be and leave the world a better place than you found it is a bad thing?

Furthermore, do you actually object to the notion that a benevolent deity will seek to save everybody from a terrible fate, and will succeed in that effort due to its divinity?

Personally, I'd hold that any ideology that needs to threaten non-adherents (or more precisely: potentially doubting adherents) with notions of a cosmic death camp especially reserved for unbelievers and other "evil" non-conformists is a world view that apparently cannot stand on its own.

 

[Skip Sampson]

I googled this and can't find anything about it. What is it?

Here's your chance, Simpleman. I've asked you to back it up with the facts and you refused to do so. Start a thread somewhere in this forum and state your case.

This will be a good lesson about the veracity of Masons on this forum. Cordially, Skip.

 

[awitch]

Freemasonry is a positive danger to any Christian because it offers a salvation-by-works philosophy covered with a thin Biblical veneer. To become a 'good' Mason is to allow it to dilute Christianity with a universalist doctrine that effectively neutralizes a man's Christian witness.

Can you cite Freemason material stating such requirements for "salvation"? I have never heard that performing good deeds is problematic to Christians before.

To join Freemasonry is to establish a partnership with god, whoever that might be, under Masonic auspices.

As per circuitrider, an actual member, it is to establish a relationship with the fraternity members. Belief in a god is a requirement for membership. Again, this is just like the Elks, of which I am a former member.

To undergo the ritual is to be transformed in the mental, moral and spiritual sense into something different.

The initiation ritual in the Elks was a dopey and over elaborate tradition. I've seen the Masonic ritual and, no offense to the Masons, but it seems the same.

Just what spirit does the transforming is never discussed, at least in Lodge degrees.

I propose that's because there isn't one.

To become a Freemason is to build out of your body a spiritual temple by making it morally and mentally spotless, meaning that the Masonic deity make itself at home in such a temple regardless of your religious beliefs, or even if you have any.

Does your god not approve of a healthy, moral mind?

The above is clearly taught in Masonic ritual, and is part of the reason I warned of the real danger to any Christian. Cordially, Skip.

I still don't see what the dangerous part is if they are doing good deeds, living moral lives, and being healthy.

 

[Skip Sampson]

Just so we're clear: Are you saying that a world view that encourages people to be the best person they can be and leave the world a better place than you found it is a bad thing?

That would depend on whether or not your question is phrased in the context of salvation. One would hope everyone, even atheists, would take pride in leaving this world a better place. We see groups pushing for that as good in the here and now, and their actions, if honest, worthy and noble. But on the personal level, such actions do not get one into heaven, according to Biblical Christianity. We believe they are the fruit of the believer, outward examples of an inward change. But works themselves do not save anyone. Our atheist can do all the good work he wants to, but is still lost.

Furthermore, do you actually object to the notion that a benevolent deity will seek to save everybody from a terrible fate, and will succeed in that effort due to its divinity?

I agree with the first half, which is what God did in sending his son Jesus to atone for all mankind's sins, and to provide a means to return to God after death. The second half I do object to, as it is disputed by the Bible. God, as powerful as he is, cannot force anyone to believe in him. He can certainly affect one's life in such a way as to lead to that goal, but it is up to the individual to make a choice. It is the free will God has given us, and he limited himself when he gave it to us.

God indeed wants to save all mankind, but one must acknowledge who he is and accept his gift of eternal life. From the moment of spiritual awareness, we are all lost, until we accept the gift of God, which is eternal life. But we must accept that gift to gain such a life, not assume it's already there just waiting for us when we die because God doesn't want to punish anyone. Those who do not accept that gift still have eternal life; it just won't be a pleasant one.

One might ask of the deity to whom you refer: why not just destroy the 'terrible fate'? If you don't want anyone to go there, why is it still there?

Personally, I'd hold that any ideology that needs to threaten non-adherents (or more precisely: potentially doubting adherents) with notions of a cosmic death camp especially reserved for unbelievers and other "evil" non-conformists is a world view that apparently cannot stand on its own.

You have every right to any personal opinion you wish to state, but I'd say that Christianity has stood on its own for quite some time.

Not sure I'd characterize Christianity as an ideology, but it's a minor objection. Christianity, as a belief system, has several specific and key doctrines, among them is salvation by faith in Jesus Christ. All people who accept it's main doctrines are saved. Compare that with a denomination, such as Mormonism, Catholicism, Baptists, etc, who might claim that salvation is only open to its members. They would be wrong, and very much deserving of our criticism, as it puts man between us and God. To be a Christian is to be saved by faith in Jesus Christ, and I'm sure there are Christian members of all religions.

There is either a God or there is not; he either wants something or he doesn't. Our role is to use our talents to answer those questions and to live our lives accordingly. In that we seek out the truth, weigh the criticisms and make our decisions. In the end we will know the truth. Cordially, Skip.

 

[smaneck]

Freemasonry is a positive danger to any Christian because it offers a salvation-by-works philosophy covered with a thin Biblical veneer.

I wasn't aware that the Freemasons were in the business of selling fire insurance, unlike a lot of religions.

To become a Freemason is to build out of your body a spiritual temple by making it morally and mentally spotless, meaning that the Masonic deity make itself at home in such a temple regardless of your religious beliefs, or even if you have any.

Hmmm. Sounds like you believe in more than one god. Or maybe it is rather like Romans 12:

"I appeal to you therefore, brothers, by the mercies of God, to present your bodies as a living sacrifice, holy and acceptable to God, which is your spiritual worship. Do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewal of your mind, that by testing you may discern what is the will of God, what is good and acceptable and perfect"

Perhaps you have trouble with the Boy Scout Oath as well which vows "To keep myself physically strong, mentally awake and morally straight."
But I think the idea of the body being a spiritual temple is biblical. You know 1 Corinthians 3:16, etc.

To live a life spotless moral conduct is to make you acceptable to god, whoever that is, and pretty much guarantees you entrance into heaven at your death.

Where does it say that? I don't think there is any such thing as a "pretty much" guarantee.

 

[Skip Sampson]

Sounds like you believe in more than one god.

No, and I can't imagine why you would reached such a strange conclusion.

But I think the idea of the body being a spiritual temple is biblical. You know 1 Corinthians 3:16, etc.

It is indeed, but you have fallen for the bait & switch that Freemasonry has used. I noted before that Freemasonry covers a rotten viewpoint with a thin veneer of Biblical references, and this is a perfect case of just that view.

I Cor 3:16-17 reads:

Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you? If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are.” (KJV)

The Masonic interpretation completely distorts the meaning of the verse. Had you studied them, you'd have seen that the 'ye' is plural, while 'you' is singular. What it actually says is that the Body of Christ, or the totality of Christians, collectively, is the temple of God, and that each individual believer has the indwelling Spirit. Masonry totally distorts this by claiming that each Mason, regardless of belief structure, is a temple of God, in whom God might come and dwell if he is good enough, which the verses do not indicate. Thus, Masonry not only misinterprets the verses, but misapplies them to non-Christians. Such distortions of the Bible are common among Masonic ritual and practice, and a sign of how little it is regarded among Masons.

Where does it say that?

Here's one of the more obvious proofs:

The lamb has in all ages been deemed an emblem of innocence; by the lambskin, the Mason is, therefore, reminded of that purity of life and conduct which is so essentially necessary to his gaining admission into the celestial Lodge above, where the Supreme Architect of the Universe presides. (SC GL, Ahiman Rezon, 2010, pg. 86)

The Apron is at once an emblem of purity and the badge of a Mason. By purity is meant clean thinking and clean living, a loyal obedience to the laws of the Craft and sincere good will to the brethren; the badge of a Mason signifies that Masons are workers and builders, not drones and destructionists. (SC GL, The LSME for SC Lodges, 2006, pg. 31)

Notice that the SC ritual (AR) says that 'purity of life' is necessary for salvation, but it's training materials (LSME) note that the 'purity' mentioned is 'clean thinking and clean living,' and obedience to the laws of the GL, all of which supports the salvation-by-works contention. My view is that a GL's training material is the real source of what a GL actually teaches, as this section shows. Cordially, Skip.

 

[Simpleman25]

Here's your chance, Simpleman. I've asked you to back it up with the facts and you refused to do so. Start a thread somewhere in this forum and state your case.

This will be a good lesson about the veracity of Masons on this forum. Cordially, Skip.

The veracity of masons? Aren't you the person that posted about how awful masons were concerning the arrest made Michigan? Turned out they rented their lodge and those in attendance were arrested. Not one off them a mason.

Then again the tactics taught to you by your keepers didn't include a class in total honesty.

You see people, this is one of his cults favorite tactics. They claim they want open and honest discussion. When masons state facts that they don't BELIEVE it's right, then suddenly all masons are liars. Our their favorite tactic being that the mason doesn't know his own craft.

This from an armchair mason like skip. He claims Masonic superiority based on what he has READ. All the while dismissing what very learned masons have lived.

I've posted the evidence that you are a puppet for your cult, as well as a member on more than one occasion. I'm not in the business in doing your homework for you.

 

[Skip Sampson]

Aren't you the person that posted about how awful masons were concerning the arrest made Michigan?

As a matter of fact, I wasn't.

I've posted the evidence that you are a puppet for your cult, as well as a member on more than one occasion.

Then post the link so all here can review it. I'm betting you won't, mainly because you can't. Cordially, Skip.

 

[Simpleman25]

As a matter of fact, I wasn't.

Then post the link so all here can review it. I'm betting you won't, mainly because you can't. Cordially, Skip.

I could be wrong about the state, but I'm not wrong about your blunder. Non masons on this site took you to task for your glaring mistake.

As far as holding your hand? Not doing it. I posted it and even linked you to it after you failed to comment. I'm not playing your games with you.

 

[Skip Sampson]

Not doing it.

Gee, what a surprise. Cordially, Skip.

 

[Zstar]

If there is a ritual and a liturgy, then that is a religión.

In fact the mere prescence of an altar means religión.

Cool pic!

Altar and religion seems synonymous...

Maybe just a fraternity group identifying with God from their native beliefs of God from their churches?

You think they have secret knowledge?

Does the stars line up with their monuments?

What does it mean to us?

 

[americanvet]

I am late to the game. Like my two brothers (SM and CR) I am also a Freemason. I will do what I can to assist from this point forward.

 

[Skip Sampson]

Altar and religion seems synonymous...

Maybe just a fraternity group identifying with God from their native beliefs of God from their churches?

Here are some facts to consider:
1. They claim their lodges are erected to God, and dedicated to the Saints John. Their lodgerooms are characterized as 'holy grounds' and a sacred place of gathering.
2. They often refer to their altar as 'holy.'
3. They demand that their candidates take their obligations in the presence of God, kneeling before the altar, holding a VSL (usually the Bible) upon which a square & compasses rest. He is required to close his obligation calling upon God to help in keeping it.
4. Their prayer at the start of the EA degree is that the candidate will dedicate his life in the service of God, using what he learns in Masonry. In this, he is said to be joining in a partnership with God under Masonic auspices.
5. The lodge is seen as symbolic of King Solomon's Temple, and the Master Mason lodge is seen as symbolic of the Holy of Holies, or the earthly dwelling place of God.
6. The candidate is taught that moral purity is necessary for salvation.
7. The candidate is taught that his objective is to clear his mind so that he may become a spiritual stone in a heavenly temple, using the lessons applied from Masonry.
8. Some GL's declare that the candidate was groping in darkness and ignorance before Almighty God led him to the lodge.
9. The candidate is told to walk as an upright Mason before man and God.
10. The candidate is told that all good Masons hope to arrive in heaven by the means of faith in God, hope in immortality and charity towards all mankind.
11. The candidate is told to achieve a state of perfection by a virtuous education, our own endeavors and the blessing of God.
12. The candidate is told that he must become morally pure so that God will come and dwell within him, and that such perfection will lead to his becoming a building stone in that heavenly temple.
13. The lodge members themselves are assembled in the name of God and God is said to be among them as they assemble.
14. A prayer in the Master Mason degree notes that Masons hope to continue to serve God in heaven after their demise, as they have done here on earth.
15. The new Master Mason is often told to pattern his life after the fictional Masonic messiah, Hiram Abif.

There is more, but one can see that it is more than just a fraternity.

You think they have secret knowledge?

No. Cordially, Skip.

 

[Skip Sampson]

Sorry for the delay in responding to your note.

Can you cite Freemason material stating such requirements for "salvation"?

A key masonic symbol is the apron they wear. As I've noted elsewhere, that apron is presented as a symbol of the moral and mental purity required to get into heaven. It's part of their salvation-by-works philosophy. In some jurisdictions, that purity is defined as adherence to Masonic laws and rules, which is an interesting thing to say.

I have never heard that performing good deeds is problematic to Christians before.

They are not, as the logical fruits of salvation by faith in Jesus. But salvation by works is expressly rejected by the Bible; see Ephesian 2:8 - 10 for the discussion. See also John 3:16.

Belief in a god is a requirement for membership.

Yes, but any god will do. If you trust in Satan as your god, you have met the requirement.

The initiation ritual in the Elks was a dopey and over elaborate tradition. I've seen the Masonic ritual and, no offense to the Masons, but it seems the same.

I would not agree with you there. Properly done, the Masonic ritual is a moving experience.

I propose that's because there isn't one.

I think there is, as do many Masons. Mason often refer to Freemasonry as an initiatic group, and talk about the spirit or energy that transforms its members into worthy Masons. Many of these men are deadly serious about that transformation and not afraid to talk about it. Me, I think the spirit behind the ritual is demonic in nature.

Does your god not approve of a healthy, moral mind?

Yes, but not as a means of salvation. Were it so, the thief on the cross would not now be in heaven. God accepts us as we are when we come to him via Jesus. If we let him, he'll shape us into the tool he requires us to be. One does not need Freemasonry to make him into a better man; God as already done that by his indwelling spirit.

I still don't see what the dangerous part is if they are doing good deeds, living moral lives, and being healthy.

It is because it rejects Jesus as the only means of salvation. It uses Bible verses by distorting them and it turns the average man into a cross between a peacock and a parrot. Aside from that, .... Cordially, Skip.

 

[smaneck]

That would depend on whether or not your question is phrased in the context of salvation.

So show me that the Freemasons are stating these things in the 'context of salvation.'

 

[morningstar2651]

Some of the rituals are quite strange, and the secrecy is incredible. It makes one wonder what they are protecting or afraid-of to go to those lengths.

What secrecy? You can find all the rituals online.

They have public websites.

 

[morningstar2651]

Ah, and naturally the anti-mason brigade shows up.

Still confused about the definition of the word "Cordially"?

 

[smaneck]

No, and I can't imagine why you would reached such a strange conclusion.

You stated that "the Masonic deity make itself at home in such a temple." You also stated that Allah is not the same deity as God. The only way that is possible is if it there are multiple deities.

The Masonic interpretation completely distorts the meaning of the verse. Had you studied them, you'd have seen that the 'ye' is plural, while 'you' is singular.
What it actually says is that the Body of Christ, or the totality of Christians, collectively, is the temple of God, and that each individual believer has the indwelling Spirit.

Uh, only KJV has 'ye' and I was reading a more modern translation. The problem with your thesis is that later on in the same epistle Paul goes back to the subject of the body as the temple, and here it is quite clear he is speaking of the human body, not the Church as the body of Christ:

"Flee from sexual immorality. Every other sin[e] a person commits is outside the body, but the sexually immoral person sins against his own body. 19 Or do you not know that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit within you, whom you have from God?" I Corinthians 6

Masonry totally distorts this

So far you haven't persuaded me that they are the ones doing the distorting.

by claiming that each Mason, regardless of belief structure, is a temple of God, in whom God might come and dwell

So your real problem is that Masons are too inclusive?

Here's one of the more obvious proofs:Notice that the SC ritual (AR) says that 'purity of life' is necessary for salvation, but it's training materials (LSME) note that the 'purity' mentioned is 'clean thinking and clean living,' and obedience to the laws of the GL, all of which supports the salvation-by-works contention.

Actually it is only the first passage speaking of purity of life and conduct which is given any association with salvation. By your criteria Matthew 25 also supports salvation-by-works.