Do masons build?

[Skip Sampson]

Ah, and naturally the anti-mason brigade shows up.

Still confused about the definition of the word "Cordially"?

1) It's actually anti-masonry if you are concerned about being factually correct. 2) Not at all. Cordially, Skip.

 

[Skip Sampson]

So show me that the Freemasons are stating these things in the 'context of salvation.'

Refer to my post #135 for your answer. Cordially, Skip.

 

[smaneck]

4. Their prayer at the start of the EA degree is that the candidate will dedicate his life in the service of God, using what he learns in Masonry. In this, he is said to be joining in a partnership with God under Masonic auspices.

That way you say 'partnership with God' seems to be some sort of accusation. That sounds strange to my ears because the pastor of the church I used to attend was always talking about partnership with God. Of course Muslims would have a problem with that phrase but for very different reasons.

 

[smaneck]

Refer to my post #135 for your answer. Cordially, Skip.

I saw one phrase which spoke of purity and conduct. Matthew 25 emphasizes works righteousness much more, IMO.

 

[smaneck]

Yes, but any god will do. If you trust in Satan as your god, you have met the requirement.

Masons on this list. Is it true you allow Satanists to join?

Me, I think the spirit behind the ritual is demonic in nature.

Ah, so that is your real issue. Besides Masons being too inclusive you think the devil is behind it!

 

[Skip Sampson]

You stated that "the Masonic deity make itself at home in such a temple." You also stated that Allah is not the same deity as God. The only way that is possible is if it there are multiple deities.

Not if all but one of them is false. The God of the Bible is the only God; all others are false. A man can take a tree as his deity, but that doesn't make the tree God. Hope this clarifies things, assuming you were serious.

Uh, only KJV has 'ye' and I was reading a more modern translation.

The version you use is immaterial, as the words as I described them maintain their meaning in any honest translation. Masons, by the way, generally use the KJV, and point to 3:16 as the source of their authority for the teaching. It remains true, as I've noted, that the verses Masons use to justify their 'spiritual temple' teaching are misidentified and misapplied in the process. The Church, collectively, is the Temple of God, not the individual believer.

Verse 6:19 agrees with 3:16 in that once one accepts Gods' gift of eternal life, he receives the Holy Spirit within him, which makes him, as Paul notes, a temple of the Spirit. You will note that Paul differentiates between the Spirit and God in the same verse.

So far you haven't persuaded me that they are the ones doing the distorting.

Sounds like a personal problem on your part. But, be of good cheer, the truth never hides from the seeker.

So your real problem is that Masons are too inclusive?

I've stated my problems with Freemasonry quite clearly in this thread. If you read them, you'll find that inclusiveness was not mentioned as one of them.

By your criteria Matthew 25 also supports salvation-by-works.

No criteria involved; merely pointing out exactly what Freemasonry teaches. It needs no further explanation.

That way you say 'partnership with God' seems to be some sort of accusation. That sounds strange to my ears because the pastor of the church I used to attend was always talking about partnership with God.

The comment makes sense in a church, or mosque for that matter. But you forget that Masons claim it's not a religion, only a fraternity of God-fearing men. Your question should have been: why would they be acting just like a religion that such a manner? And by what authority do they make such a claim?

Masons on this list. Is it true you allow Satanists to join?

Wrong question to ask. The real one is this: If a man chose Satan as his god, would that satisfy Masonry's requirement to believe in a Supreme Being?

The candidate must also pass muster with an examination committee, and it's my guess that not many Satanists would get their seal of approval. One never knows, of course, but that might be a god too far.

Ah, so that is your real issue.

That the transforming force behind their ritual is demonic? My real issue is otherwise stated, and it focuses very much on Christians, and Masonry's destructive power in their lives.

saw one phrase which spoke of purity and conduct.

Try considering the context all those comments fall into and you'll get the idea. Cordially, Skip.

 

[smaneck]

Not if all but one of them is false. The God of the Bible is the only God; all others are false. A man can take a tree as his deity, but that doesn't make the tree God. Hope this clarifies things, assuming you were serious.

It sounded very much to me like you thought they were taking a demon as God.

The Church, collectively, is the Temple of God, not the individual believer.

Verse 6:19 agrees with 3:16 in that once one accepts Gods' gift of eternal life, he receives the Holy Spirit within him, which makes him, as Paul notes, a temple of the Spirit. You will note that Paul differentiates between the Spirit and God in the same verse.

I take it you don't believe in the Trinity.

Verse 6:19 clearly indicates that the Temple here is the human body whereas you insisted it was the Church. But I'm guessing your real objection is with the idea that the bodies of non-Christians might also be Temples. So once again, it is a problem with the Masons being too inclusive.

Sounds like a personal problem on your part. But, be of good cheer, the truth never hides from the seeker.

Rather than your lack of evidence? I think not. I read pretty carefully.

I've stated my problems with Freemasonry quite clearly in this thread. If you read them, you'll find that inclusiveness was not mentioned as one of them.

You may not have used that term but as with your accusation regarding their misuse of 1 Corinthians the problem seems to be that they made it more inclusive than your theology allows.

The comment makes sense in a church, or mosque for that matter. But you forget that Masons claim it's not a religion, only a fraternity of God-fearing men.

You do realize that most fraternities throughout history have had religious rituals? Doesn't make them separate religions.

If a man chose Satan as his god, would that satisfy Masonry's requirement to believe in a Supreme Being?

Okay. Let's let the Masons answer that question.

The candidate must also pass muster with an examination committee, and it's my guess that not many Satanists would get their seal of approval.

Or maybe not any?

My real issue is otherwise stated, and it focuses very much on Christians, and Masonry's destructive power in their lives.

LOL. I think you assume that Masons who are Christians take those rituals as seriously as you do. I'll bet there isn't a Shriner around who thinks they will get their eyeballs plucked out if they break their rules. As for works-righteousness, you've yet to establish how anything in their rituals goes beyond what Jesus says in Matthew 25.

 

[Simpleman25]

Masons on this list. Is it true you allow Satanists to join?



Ah, so that is your real issue. Besides Masons being too inclusive you think the devil is behind it!

I will say that it would be nearly impossible for a devil worshipper to join. Only of course if they lied.

My home lodge only takes Christians in as masons. It's been that way since the beginning of this lodge.

 

[americanvet]

No religious test is required of a candidate, other than that he shall believe in God, the Creator and Governor of the Universe.

Do you believe in the existence of one supreme and everlasting God, in some revelation of His will, and in the immortality of the soul?

Do you believe in the existence of one ever-living and true God?

The above are requirements for membership in a Masonic lodge.

My interpretation of this would be a Satanist would not qualify. FYI this reply is for the non-professional poster and not the professional anti-mason. I do not reply to them.

 

[awitch]

No religious test is required of a candidate, other than that he shall believe in God, the Creator and Governor of the Universe.

Do you believe in the existence of one supreme and everlasting God, in some revelation of His will, and in the immortality of the soul?

Do you believe in the existence of one ever-living and true God?

The above are requirements for membership in a Masonic lodge.

My interpretation of this would be a Satanist would not qualify. FYI this reply is for the non-professional poster and not the professional anti-mason. I do not reply to them.

The monotheistic requirement is interesting (at least 1 god was sufficient for the Elks). No restrictions against communists?

 

[Simpleman25]

Gee, what a surprise. Cordially, Skip.

Dear readers, I hope that this short exchange gives you some insight as to the way he and his cult go about business. As you can see I made numerous responses on a number of subjects only to have him disregard them.

This is part of their cultish playbook. This cult puppet known as skip has the playbook down.

He has been shown more than once the post I made concerning how he and his operators are indeed a cult obsessed with freemasonry. Forcing him to read it is not something I would do. It's on him.

Instead of reading it and beginning some form of debate, he scurried away and claimed I've never shown it to him.

Nice try armchair.

 

[Zoness]

Sketchy stuff...

 

[Skip Sampson]

The monotheistic requirement is interesting

Some GL's imply a monotheistic god, but that is the minority. Here are a few examples of GL requirements as to belief:

Oklahoma: Do you believe in God? No atheist can be a Mason. Masons do not care what your individual faith is -- that is a question between you and your God -- but we do require that a that a man believe in a Supreme Being.

Btw, Simpleman25 claims to be an Oklahoma Mason. Note that his GL states that that a man's faith is of no concern to Masons, but one of his lodges restricts membership to only Christians. More hypocrisy.

Iowa: You must believe in a Supreme Being.

(The Iowa statement is that most commonly used among U.S. GL's.)

Kentucky: A belief in God.

South Carolina: a believer in the existence of a Supreme Being.

Pennsylvania: The primary requirement of a Freemason is a belief in a Supreme Being, whether He be called God or Allah or Jehovah or any of the names by which the Supreme Architect of the Universe may be designated.

A review of such criteria reveals that there is no requirement for that supreme being to be monotheistic. Were GL's to demand such a thing would be considered an innovation. Too, it would prohibit Mormons from joining.

Given the generality of the requirements, Satan could easily qualify; however, as I noted, a Satanist would be unlikely to get passed the investigation committee, even though most GL's proclaim that a man's individual religious beliefs are not a concern of the Lodge or GL.

No restrictions against communists?

Where Masonic training manuals have addressed the subject, they conclude that no communist can be made a Mason due to its atheistic nature. Cordially, Skip.

 

[Skip Sampson]

He has been shown more than once the post I made concerning how he and his operators are indeed a cult obsessed with freemasonry.

Feel free to post it here so the other readers can read it, or tell them where you posted it. After all, one other was interested in it. To my knowledge, you've never backed up the charge with facts.

As has been pointed out to you, I'm not a member of EMFJ, so I can hardly be called a 'cult member' thereof.

It might also be useful for you to define just what a 'cult' is and to show how you have concluded that either of them meets that definition.

As you can see I made numerous responses on a number of subjects only to have him disregard them.

Oh, I've answered your serious questions. I do admit to avoiding much of the nonsense you post, though I have made an exception in this instance. Cordially, Skip.

 

[Skip Sampson]

No religious test is required of a candidate, other than that he shall believe in God, the Creator and Governor of the Universe.

Yet your brother, Simpleman25, belongs to a lodge that discriminates against non-Christians. Perhaps you should admonish him about that, privately, of course. Cordially, Skip.

 

[Skip Sampson]

It sounded very much to me like you thought they were taking a demon as God.

And now you know otherwise.

I take it you don't believe in the Trinity.

You take it wrong.

Verse 6:19 clearly indicates that the Temple here is the human body whereas you insisted it was the Church.

It does no such thing. Paul differentiates between the actions of God and of the Holy Spirit. More to the point, if 6:19 supports the Masonic view that the individual is the Temple of God, that would make it contradictory to 3:16. Paul was a far more careful writer than to make an error like that. Bottom line remains: the Temple of God is the Church, made up of the body of believers. It is the Holy Spirit that is within us, a deposit, so to speak, guaranteeing what is to come.

But I'm guessing your real objection is with the idea that the bodies of non-Christians might also be Temples.

No, the real issue is Freemasonry's insistence that a non-Christian can be endowed with the spirit just as can a Christian. Thus, a Christian that supports Masonry's teaching is a hypocrite of the worst kind.

So once again, it is a problem with the Masons being too inclusive.

I wouldn't phrase it that way, as 'too inclusive' really doesn't capture the objections which I have articulated, nor does it carry any precision.

You do realize that most fraternities throughout history have had religious rituals? Doesn't make them separate religions.

It's a matter of degree. Do the Elks make statements such as Freemasonry makes about themselves? See my post #135.

Too, it's a matter of definition. Just how is 'religion' defined? And would Masonry meet that definition?

Okay. Let's let the Masons answer that question.

They won't. They'll rephrase it many different ways, but they will not answer it as I pose it.

I think you assume that Masons who are Christians take those rituals as seriously as you do.

I make no such conclusion, for reasons addressed elsewhere. My point remains: such rituals are approved by the GL's and their content, as with that of their training documentation, constitute the doctrine under which all Masons are subject, whether they like it or not. When Masonic doctrine claims that moral and mental purity are required for admission to heaven, the Christian must note the contradiction and act upon it. He must choose between the lessons of Masonry and those of his Lord and Savior.

As for works-righteousness, you've yet to establish how anything in their rituals goes beyond what Jesus says in Matthew 25.

Matthew 25 concerns itself with Jesus' return, not salvation. John 3:16 and Ephesian 2:8-10 are the key verses that specify what one must do to be saved. Cordially, Skip.

 

[Simpleman25]

Yet your brother, Simpleman25, belongs to a lodge that discriminates against non-Christians. Perhaps you should admonish him about that, privately, of course. Cordially, Skip.

Your concern is duly noted. Vet and I have discussed this.

 

[smaneck]

Some GL's imply a monotheistic god, but that is the minority. Here are a few examples of GL requirements as to belief:
Btw, Simpleman25 claims to be an Oklahoma Mason. Note that his GL states that that a man's faith is of no concern to Masons, but one of his lodges restricts membership to only Christians. More hypocrisy.

He lives in a state that openly violates the Constitution by discriminating against Muslims by passing legislation against the Shariah.

Sounds like it is not just the Masons who are guilty of hypocrisy here.

 

[smaneck]

You take it wrong.

It does no such thing. Paul differentiates between the actions of God and of the Holy Spirit.

If you make a distinction between God and the Holy Spirit you are admitting that the Holy Spirit is not God.

More to the point, if 6:19 supports the Masonic view that the individual is the Temple of God, that would make it contradictory to 3:16.

Or maybe the Masons are right and it is 6:19 which should guide our interpretation of 3:16.

No, the real issue is Freemasonry's insistence that a non-Christian can be endowed with the spirit just as can a Christian.

Sounds right to me.

Thus, a Christian that supports Masonry's teaching is a hypocrite of the worst kind.

Because Christians are obliged to deny our experience of the Holy Spirit?

I wouldn't phrase it that way, as 'too inclusive' really doesn't capture the objections which I have articulated, nor does it carry any precision.

Oh, it sure does for me!

Too, it's a matter of definition. Just how is 'religion' defined? And would Masonry meet that definition?

I generally allow religions to define themselves.

They won't.

They did.

Matthew 25 concerns itself with Jesus' return, not salvation.

It distinguishes who will be let into the Kingdom and who will go into the everlasting fire. And somehow faith never even gets mentioned there.

John 3:16 and Ephesian 2:8-10 are the key verses that specify what one must do to be saved. Cordially, Skip.

Regardless, it still looks as though Christ has contradicted them at least as much as the Masons!

 

[Simpleman25]

He lives in a state that openly violates the Constitution by openly discriminating against Muslims by passing legislation against the Shariah.

Sounds like it is not just the Masons who are guilty of hypocrisy here.

Perhaps some clarification will make it clearer to those that don't understand howhow these things go in a lodge. That would include those that only know freemasonry by what they've read.

There is an investigation committee for each new prospect. Once the investigation has concluded the committee reports to the lodge. After the report and discussion a vote is taken. The vote has to be unanimous.

In my home lodge, if a man isn't a Christian, he will not be voted in. Period. Call it whatever you want. At least I'm being honest.