Do masons build?

LoAmmi said:

Based upon my dealings with a few, it seems more like a social club at this point with some odd rituals.

Click to expand...

If there is a ritual and a liturgy, then that is a religión.

In fact the mere prescence of an altar means religión.

Alonso_Castillo said:

If there is a ritual and a liturgy, then that is a religión.

Click to expand...

I would disagree that those two somehow make it a religion. I can see why a Catholic would think that though.

Masons build through the construction of their lives. To be good men and members of society. Their is a lot of controversy in the Christian world over being a Mason. I was a member for a period of time but realized that it was to controversial to be a member and also active in the church and ministry. So I decided to leave the Masons. I thought it was fund and interesting and I did enjoy it. I believe that at one time there was a need for secret societies within the social structures that had no freedoms of speech or press. Even today it may be necessary to do things in secret for the better good. Jesus said do not cast your pearls before swine.

The Masons are real? I thought they were just some legend who popped up in an episode of The Simpsons...

Still, I've never had any interest whatsoever in Masons. Even the conspiracy theories surrounding them are boring.

Alonso_Castillo said:

If there is a ritual and a liturgy, then that is a religión.

In fact the mere prescence of an altar means religión.

Click to expand...

And what is this supposed to be a picture of?

Our religion has no altars, no liturgy and few rituals.

Supreme said:

The Masons are real? I thought they were just some legend who popped up in an episode of The Simpsons...

Still, I've never had any interest whatsoever in Masons. Even the conspiracy theories surrounding them are boring.

Click to expand...

That's because they're just a fraternal order. But everyone is scared of organizations, sometimes rightfully so, that keep their behaviors secret. Still, the masons became a popular target for conspiracy theories.

smaneck said:

And what is this supposed to be a picture of?

Click to expand...

A Masonic altar I guess... Assuming that is actually what it is!

light upon light said:

A Masonic altar I guess... Assuming that is actually what it is!

Click to expand...

It is the Hebrew writing I find surprising. The Masonic altars I've seen don't have that.

Alonso_Castillo said:

Yes somehow from my catholic prospective you have never been part of the body of Christ.

Click to expand...

That's interesting because I don't think that is the perspective of the Roman Catholic Church nor do I think it is the view of Pope Francis.

Be that as it may, if no one but Roman Catholics are part of the body of Christ why are you here hanging out with all of us non-catholics?

Alonso_Castillo said:

He is not going to change a fundamental truth, Masonry is a religión, a false one, so no catholic can join anothe religious movement out of the church unless that one wants to be excomunicated.

Click to expand...

The problem Alonso with this kind of statement is that you are making it based on no facts whatsoever that Freemasonry is a religion. Freemasonry never claims to be a religion, does not offer what religion offers, etc.

smaneck said:

And what is this supposed to be a picture of?

Our religion has no altars, no liturgy and few rituals.

Click to expand...

My best guess from other pictures I've seen is that it is the altar found in the lodge room in the Scottish Rite headquarters in Washington DC.

The purpose of an altar in Freemasonry does not make Freemasonry a religion because of what it is there to display. On the altar is displayed a volume of sacred law (or more than one) representing the religions that members of the lodge are a part of. So it represents not Freemasonry as a religion but instead it represents that men of all religions are welcome to be Freemasons.

The problem our Catholic friend here has is that he assumes that Masons think like Roman Catholics or that we define things the way Roman Catholics do when we don't.

If you look in a Protestant Church you'll see a communion table and not an altar. They look quite similar but the function isn't the same. Roman Catholics belief Christ is transubstantially re-sacrificed at Mass. Protestants either believe that Communion is a memorialization of Christs death and resurrection or, as United Methodists and members of the Anglican Communion believe, that Christ is present in our sharing the sacrament but not that Christ is re-sacrificed.

The table may look the same. The function is very different.

Supreme said:

The Masons are real? I thought they were just some legend who popped up in an episode of The Simpsons...

Still, I've never had any interest whatsoever in Masons. Even the conspiracy theories surrounding them are boring.

Click to expand...

Supreme, if you drive around the community you live or even look in the phone book likely you will run across a Masonic lodge. You will often see a square and compass displayed as our symbol and on an evening when we are having a lodge meeting often the square and compass sign is lit to let other Masons know a meeting is going on.

Here in the city where I live in this part of Iowa there are at least half a dozen Masonic lodges, a Scottish Rite center, and a Shrine center. In Iowa there are about 20,000 Freemasons and about 1.3 Million in the US.

Masonic Membership Statistics

smaneck said:

And what is this supposed to be a picture of?

Our religion has no altars, no liturgy and few rituals.

Click to expand...

First answer:
That is a masonic Altar,

Second reply,
Your statement also gives me the reason, even if yous group has not altar nor rituals and not liturgy, and you can call it religión, with more reason that one movement wich also has altar liturgy and rituals. dahhh

circuitrider said:

That's interesting because I don't think that is the perspective of the Roman Catholic Church nor do I think it is the view of Pope Francis.

Be that as it may, if no one but Roman Catholics are part of the body of Christ why are you here hanging out with all of us non-catholics?

Click to expand...

Aswer to your first statement:

Pope Francis has not rejected The Catechism of The Catholic Church.


Answering your second question:

Because I want to convert all of you to the catholic church.

circuitrider said:

The problem Alonso with this kind of statement is that you are making it based on no facts whatsoever that Freemasonry is a religion. Freemasonry never claims to be a religion, does not offer what religion offers, etc.

Click to expand...

Religión comes from Latin "Religare" wich means "bond again" bond with what With the councience of the divine, and no atheist can join Masonry, and in masonry The Great Arrchitect of The Universe is the God to which masons are taught to be religated.

Alonso_Castillo said:

Aswer to your first statement:

Pope Francis has not rejected The Catechism of The Catholic Church.


Answering your second question:

Because I want to convert all of you to the catholic church.

Click to expand...

Interesting Alonso. Did you read much that your Holy Father puts out in the media? Last I read it indicated that atheists may be saved by their righteous works. If that is the case why would he exclude Methodists? I doubt he would. It does sound like Pope Francis, whom by the way I have a deep respect for.

I'm not at all sure you represent what your Pope is currently teaching.

Also I'm not at all sure that you aren't violating forum rules if you intend to convert me. Give it a try though. The odds are basically zero. At least until your church ordains women as allows married priests among other things.

Alonso_Castillo said:

Religión comes from Latin "Religare" wich means "bond again" bond with what With the councience of the divine, and no atheist can join Masonry, and in masonry The Great Arrchitect of The Universe is the God to which masons are taught to be religated.

Click to expand...

And Great Architect of the Universe is a title for God like "The Almighty." The first person to use "Great Architect of the Universe" as a descriptor of God that I'm aware of was John Calvin who founded Presbyterianism.

I guess now you'll suggest that Presbyterians worship a different God than you do. Or, will you be inconsistent.

Men created a fraternity called Freemasonry. It was created as a fraternity and not a religion. Yet despite the fact that the fraternity never claims to be a religion, offers no sacraments and no path to salvation, heaven, or eternity you think that you have the right to tell others what is and isn't their religion.

Do you know of any other religion that says it is not a religion and yet is a religion in your view?

Do you think the Boy Scouts are a religion? You have to believe in God to be a boy scout. What about Alcoholics Anonymous? You have to believe in a "higher power" to be in AA. Is that a religion?

To all:
This has been an interesting thread, but I want to expand on a few issues raised by Masons and non-Masons. So you know, I am a critic of Freemasonry and maintain the position that it is inconsistent with Biblical Christianity.

Point 1 - What hasn't been covered so far is what Masons actually build. In Freemasonry, the individual has a primary task of building a spiritual temple of his body, so it can become a fit dwelling place for God, whoever that might be. Here's a Masonic description of it:

Three times has man tried to build a temple wherein the Creator might dwell; three times he has failed. You now start to build the fourth temple, wherein God may reside, but this one is different, this one will be built in your heart. There God may finally dwell and rest - in your heart, and this temple shall never be destroyed, unless you destroy it - what an awesome responsibility. So stand there in the Northeast corner, where you were placed and where all buildings are begun and begin to build your own temple, a temple which may only be built with the help of Freemasonry. (IL GL, Intender Program - EA Guidebook, 2003, pg. 17)

So, this is the belief of Freemasonry. Your body will die, but we know with a sure and certain hope that the soul will live and while it lives by and through the principles and philosophy of Freemasonry it will, by reason of your building the Fourth Temple in your heart, be the home of GAOTU on earth and allow Him to bring his Kingdom into the world. (IL GL, Intender Program - MM Guidebook, 2003, Pg. 18)

Click to expand...

All GL's refer to this building project to one degree or another, but the goal is the same in all U.S. jurisdictions, at least. It's goal is physical, moral and spiritual perfection so that 'god' will make his body a dwelling place. If the Mason does good work on his earthly temple, he will be used in the construction of the heavenly one, where he will be gladly accepted as a living stone for that temple. The view of the Masonic Spiritual Temple is one of the many ways in which Freemasonry offers salvation to its members.

Point 2 - It has been said that Freemasonry is not a religion, but the topic is much deeper than that. Masonic authors tend to differentiate between 'religion' and 'a religion.' The former refers to the fact that Masonry carries the fundamental elements of God's teachings to man, but leaves it to men to determine their meaning in his life. "A religion" refers to an organized religion, such as Baptists, Mormons, Catholics. They deny the latter characterization, but accept the former.

Deeper than this is whether or not they meet the fundamental definition of the word 'religion.' Masons generally refuse to provide a definition, for the obvious reason, but my analysis of Masonic teachings indicate it is indeed 'a religion' because it meets the definition of one.

Point 3 - A question was asked why the Shriners used so much Islamic symbolism, and it was answered that it was more Arabic than Islamic. This explanation papers over the fact that the Shriner initiation has the man swearing his acceptance of his obligations in Allah's name. The Allah of the Koran is not the God of the Bible, and those who can calmly swear on such an entity are in real ignorance of what they are doing.

Point 4 - Circuitrider made this statement:

It is true that Prince Hall was started because years ago Masonry was like many churches, racially divided, that has changed in most jurisdictions in the US.

Click to expand...

While true, it misses the point, which is: Christian churches never denied people access to Jesus Christ and salvation on the basis of their skin color, while Masonry did deny the 'benefits' of membership on exactly that basis. Despite Masonry's motto "The Brotherhood of Man under the Fatherhood of God," their active racism gave lie to the motto itself by showing how hollow it really was. Of note, the racism therein continued well into the 20th Century, with South Carolina, for example, limiting membership to white men only through 1975, if not later.

Point 5 - Yet another significant comment from Circuitrider:

I know a number of Masons who are practicing Roman Catholics.

Click to expand...

Just what kind of Catholic ignores the teaching of his church to participate in an organization that has been found to reject Catholic doctrine? It's very much typical of Masons, who really put Freemasonry above the churches they attend. Cordially, Skip.

Skip Sampson said:

Point 3 - A question was asked why the Shriners used so much Islamic symbolism, and it was answered that it was more Arabic than Islamic. This explanation papers over the fact that the Shriner initiation has the man swearing his acceptance of his obligations in Allah's name. The Allah of the Koran is not the God of the Bible, and those who can calmly swear on such an entity are in real ignorance of what they are doing.

Click to expand...

In that case all of the Christian Arabs in the world are in trouble because they too address God as Allah.

Point 4 - Circuitrider made this statement:While true, it misses the point, which is: Christian churches never denied people access to Jesus Christ and salvation on the basis of their skin color, while Masonry did deny the 'benefits' of membership on exactly that basis. Despite Masonry's motto "The Brotherhood of Man under the Fatherhood of God," their active racism gave lie to the motto itself by showing how hollow it really was. Of note, the racism therein continued well into the 20th Century, with South Carolina, for example, limiting membership to white men only through 1975, if not later.

Click to expand...

The fact remains that the Church is the most segregated institution in America.

Just what kind of Catholic ignores the teaching of his church to participate in an organization that has been found to reject Catholic doctrine?

Click to expand...

An American Catholic. 98% of sexually active Catholic women in America practice birth control while 78% of American Catholics think a 'good Catholic" can reject the Church's teachings on such matters.

Be aware that skip is a professional antimason.