Do Jews still exist?

[Dave L]

there has been a number of Jewish diasporas over the centuries, most notable the destruction of the temple in 70 AD and subsequent exile. A lot of time has passed and since then Hebrew has become a dead language since the 2nd century (now revived only a little over 100 years ago). Over this wide spread of people to distant lands, time and loss of identity is there really any such thing as a Jew today? or are we all Gentile?

When Jesus abolished Jewish ritual circumcision on the cross, he made it impossible for one to become a physical biblical Jew or Israelite. Today Jews are those who practice Judaism. Just as Christians are those who practice Christianity.

 

[DamianWarS]

When Jesus abolished Jewish ritual circumcision on the cross, he made it impossible for one to become a physical biblical Jew or Israelite. Today Jews are those who practice Judaism. Just as Christians are those who practice Christianity.

I don't recall Christ abolishing circumcision... fulfilling yes, but those two are not the same thing.

 

[Dave L]

I don't recall Christ abolishing circumcision... fulfilling yes, but those two are the same thing.

Read it again along with Paul's take on it.

 

[JacksBratt]

there has been a number of Jewish diasporas over the centuries, most notable the destruction of the temple in 70 AD and subsequent exile. A lot of time has passed and since then Hebrew has become a dead language since the 2nd century (now revived only a little over 100 years ago). Over this wide spread of people to distant lands, time and loss of identity is there really any such thing as a Jew today? or are we all Gentile?

Yes, people of the Hebrew tribes exist. They have even traced members of the Levites who are pure and can carry the ark of the covenant.

The Tribes Today - Kohens, Levis & Yisraels


"Today, Leviim are believed to be the direct patrilineal descendents of Levi,"

 

[Dave L]

Yes, people of the Hebrew tribes exist. They have even traced members of the Levites who are pure and can carry the ark of the covenant.

The Tribes Today - Kohens, Levis & Yisraels


"Today, Leviim are believed to be the direct patrilineal descendents of Levi,"

But they arent biblical Israel unless they accept Christ.

 

[JacksBratt]

But they arent biblical Israel unless they accept Christ.

What?

Accepting or denying Christ does not change your DNA... or your RNA....

There are no less than 144,000 real true honest to goodness Hebrew Jews that will convert in the end...

 

[Dave L]

What?

Accepting or denying Christ does not change your DNA... or your RNA....

There are no less than 144,000 real true honest to goodness Hebrew Jews that will convert in the end...

DNA has nothing to do with it. Circumcision made bloodline and gentiles Jews alike. Avoiding circumcision meant ex-communication, bloodline included.

 

[JacksBratt]

DNA has nothing to do with it. Circumcision made bloodline and gentiles Jews alike. Avoiding circumcision meant ex-communication, bloodline included.

 

[Jack Terrence]

There are no less than 144,000 real true honest to goodness Hebrew Jews that will convert in the end...

This is wrong. The 144,000 are called "the firstfruits unto God." This means that they were converted in the beginning, not the end. They were saved in the first century. The firstfuits are the first to be saved, not the last to be saved.

 

[lsume]

There are multiple dimensions to Christ's prophecy. A massive Jewish diaspora was the result of the destruction of the temple or scattering of each brick, with no brick left standing. If bricks are Israel and the diaspora them being thrown down what does it look like if we are talking about a tree? Where all natural branches broken off too as all bricks were thrown down or as all Jews scattered across the earth?

The only way that anyone can hear The Word is for Christ to open the ears to hear. I have found that there is a physical manifestation and a Spiritual manifestation of any given Truth.

 

[DamianWarS]

Read it again along with Paul's take on it.

what's nailed to the cross is our debt not the ritual of circumcision. I'm not suggesting physical circumcision is a requirement or a proponent of salvation but it certainly isn't abolished and if it was it would be a little odd for Paul to say it's abolished then tell Timothy to get circumcised.

 

[DamianWarS]

Yes, people of the Hebrew tribes exist. They have even traced members of the Levites who are pure and can carry the ark of the covenant.

The Tribes Today - Kohens, Levis & Yisraels


"Today, Leviim are believed to be the direct patrilineal descendents of Levi,"

would these Leviim be called the natural branches of Rom 11 then? I think also we need to define what "pure" really means (biblical speaking as it pertains to the natural branches of Rom 11) as tracing only your Father's line back to a Levite doesn't demand you are very Jewish at all.

 

[DamianWarS]

DNA has nothing to do with it. Circumcision made bloodline and gentiles Jews alike. Avoiding circumcision meant ex-communication, bloodline included.

but what about the branches on the olive tree of Rom 11? are the uncircumcised natural branches broken off because they are uncircumcised or are there other criteria?

 

[JacksBratt]

This is wrong. The 144,000 are called "the firstfruits unto God." This means that they were converted in the beginning, not the end. They were saved in the first century. The firstfuits are the first to be saved, not the last to be saved.

The 144,000, 12,000 from each tribe, will convert during the tribulation... There may have been 144,000 conversions earlier as well... but the final 144,000 will populate the millennial age after the Great Tribulation.

If you want to argue or debate that.. best start another thread... It is not the topic of this one.

 

[JacksBratt]

would these Leviim be called the natural branches of Rom 11 then? I think also we need to define what "pure" really means (biblical speaking as it pertains to the natural branches of Rom 11) as tracing only your Father's line back to a Levite doesn't demand you are very Jewish at all.

From what I understand.. their robes are made, the temple implements are made, the plans for the temple are drawn, the pure red heifer has been born... They are ready to go with valid Levite priests.

 

[Jack Terrence]

what's nailed to the cross is our debt not the ritual of circumcision. I'm not suggesting physical circumcision is a requirement or a proponent of salvation but it certainly isn't abolished and if it was it would be a little odd for Paul to say it's abolished then tell Timothy to get circumcised.

You are contradicting yourself. If our debt was nailed to the cross, then all the ceremonial rituals were nailed to the cross too for the ceremonial rituals were a reminder of sin.

Luke says that Paul circumcised Timothy because of the unbelieving Jews. They would not allow an uncircumcised man to teach in their synagogues. Paul wanted Timothy to assist him in preaching. It was for the sake of the gospel Paul circumcised him. "To the Jew I became a Jew that I might gain the Jew." Paul was carrying the decrees from the apostles and elders which stated that circumcision was no longer binding. You should comment on Paul's actions in their historical context. I find your commentary to be very shallow.

 

[Gup20]

Abraham was a Gentile when God made the covenant of faith with him in Genesis 12-17. He was not circumcised until after the covenant of faith was ratified in the latter half of Genesis 15.

[Gal 3:16 NASB] 16 Now the promises were spoken to Abraham and to his seed. He does not say, "And to seeds," as [referring] to many, but [rather] to one, "And to your seed," that is, Christ.

[Gen 15:5-6 NASB/KJV] 5 And He took him outside and said, "Now look toward the heavens, and count the stars, if you are able to count them." And He said to him, "So shall your seed be." 6 Then he believed in the LORD; and He reckoned it to him as righteousness.

[Gen 17:4-10 NASB/KJV] 4 "As for Me, behold, My covenant is with you, And you will be the father of a multitude of nations. 5 "No longer shall your name be called Abram, But your name shall be Abraham; For I have made you the father of a multitude of nations. 6 "I will make you exceedingly fruitful, and I will make nations of you, and kings will come forth from you. 7 "I will establish My covenant between Me and you and your seed after you throughout their generations for an everlasting covenant, to be God to you and to your seed after you. 8 "I will give to you and to your seed after you, the land of your sojournings, all the land of Canaan, for an everlasting possession; and I will be their God." 9 God said further to Abraham, "Now as for you, you shall keep My covenant, you and your seed after you throughout their generations. 10 "This is My covenant, which you shall keep, between Me and you and your seed after you: every male among you shall be circumcised.

[Rom 4:9-13, 16-17 NASB/KJV] 9 Is this blessing then on the circumcised, or on the uncircumcised also? For we say, "FAITH WAS CREDITED TO ABRAHAM AS RIGHTEOUSNESS." 10 How then was it credited? While he was circumcised, or uncircumcised? Not while circumcised, but while uncircumcised; 11 and he received the sign of circumcision, a seal of the righteousness of the faith which he had while uncircumcised, so that he might be the father of all who believe without being circumcised, that righteousness might be credited to them, 12 and the father of circumcision to those who not only are of the circumcision, but who also follow in the steps of the faith of our father Abraham which he had while uncircumcised. 13 For the promise to Abraham or to his seed that he would be heir of the world was not through the Law, but through the righteousness of faith. ... 16 For this reason [it is] by faith, in order that [it may be] in accordance with grace, so that the promise will be guaranteed to all the descendants, not only to those who are of the Law, but also to those who are of the faith of Abraham, who is the father of us all, 17 (as it is written, "A FATHER OF MANY NATIONS HAVE I MADE YOU") in the presence of Him whom he believed, [even] God, who gives life to the dead and calls into being that which does not exist.

[Eph 1:13-14 NASB] 13 In Him, you also, after listening to the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation--having also believed, you were sealed in Him with the Holy Spirit of promise, 14 who is given as a pledge of our inheritance, with a view to the redemption of [God's own] possession, to the praise of His glory.
​

So we see that - from the beginning and held within the Torah itself - salvation by faith alone apart from works and the law is initiated. This covenant of faith was given to Abraham and always meant to be to all the nations (God promises he would be the father of many nations), not just to one nation. This God then immediately promises this eternal covenant will be inherited by his "seed" right after saying that he would be the "father of many nations." This strongly indicates many will be adopted children.

[Isa 54:1 NASB] 1 "Shout for joy, O barren one, you who have borne no [child;] Break forth into joyful shouting and cry aloud, you who have not travailed; For the sons of the desolate one [will be] more numerous Than the sons of the married woman," says the LORD.​

We see also that Abraham was made righteous for his faith in the gospel of Jesus Christ (according to Galatians 3:8, 16). Those with the same faith in the gospel of Jesus Christ that Abraham had are considered his children and heirs according to the promise.

Next we see that Abraham was made righteous for his faith while he was an uncircumcised Gentile, and that circumcision was the seal of the righteousness of faith. In Ephesians 1:13-14 we see that the Holy Spirit is now the seal of the righteousness of faith... therefore we can conclude that cicumcision is an Old Testament foreshadow of the indwelling gift of the Holy Spirit.

[Rom 2:28-29 NASB] 28 For he is not a Jew who is one outwardly, nor is circumcision that which is outward in the flesh. 29 But he is a Jew who is one inwardly; and circumcision is that which is of the heart, by the Spirit, not by the letter; and his praise is not from men, but from God.​

We can see from the Torah that circumcision of the flesh always had this endgame in mind:

[Deu 30:6 NASB] 6 "Moreover the LORD your God will circumcise your heart and the heart of your descendants, to love the LORD your God with all your heart and with all your soul, so that you may live.​

As for the scattering of the Jews from their promised eternal possession this is also Biblical. It is anti-Semitic to consider the Jews themselves cursed... it is important to note that it is not the Jews who were cursed, but the land which was cursed.

[Gal 3:13 NASB] 13 Christ redeemed us from the curse of the Law, having become a curse for us--for it is written, "CURSED IS EVERYONE WHO HANGS ON A TREE"--

[Deu 21:23 NASB] 23 his corpse shall not hang all night on the tree, but you shall surely bury him on the same day (for he who is hanged is accursed of God), so that you do not defile your land which the LORD your God gives you as an inheritance.​

Remember that at Jesus death the sky turned dark for 3 hours. Jesus was not buried before this eclipse ended, so this brought a great curse on the promised land for 2000 years... therefore, were God's chosen people, the Jews, scattered from it.

Jesus became a curse so that the descendants of Abraham would not. After such a great sacrifice of the Lord of taking the curse on Himself to save His people, it is a shame people still say the Jews were cursed.

 

[DamianWarS]

From what I understand.. their robes are made, the temple implements are made, the plans for the temple are drawn, the pure red heifer has been born... They are ready to go with valid Levite priests.

by whose authority?

 

[JacksBratt]

by whose authority?

The same authority that allowed Israel to be re born as a nation and the language to be reborn.. and who saved them at their inception as a nation during the six day war.

Simple test... Only the priests of the tribe of Levi... can carry the ark.. so... when they find it.. and these guys carry it.. it will be solidly proven.

 

[JacksBratt]

You are contradicting yourself. If our debt was nailed to the cross, then all the ceremonial rituals were nailed to the cross too for the ceremonial rituals were a reminder of sin.

Luke says that Paul circumcised Timothy because of the unbelieving Jews. They would not allow an uncircumcised man to teach in their synagogues. Paul wanted Timothy to assist him in preaching. It was for the sake of the gospel Paul circumcised him. "To the Jew I became a Jew that I might gain the Jew." Paul was carrying the decrees from the apostles and elders which stated that circumcision was no longer binding. You should comment on Paul's actions in their historical context. I find your commentary to be very shallow.

I like your moving avatar... nice.....