Do Jews still exist?

DamianWarS

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there has been a number of Jewish diasporas over the centuries, most notable the destruction of the temple in 70 AD and subsequent exile. A lot of time has passed and since then Hebrew has become a dead language since the 2nd century (now revived only a little over 100 years ago). Over this wide spread of people to distant lands, time and loss of identity is there really any such thing as a Jew today? or are we all Gentile?
 

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there has been a number of Jewish diasporas over the centuries, most notable the destruction of the temple in 70 AD and subsequent exile. A lot of time has passed and since then Hebrew has become a dead language since the 2nd century (now revived only a little over 100 years ago). Over this wide spread of people to distant lands, time and loss of identity is there really any such thing as a Jew today? or are we all Gentile?
I read somewhere that Palestinians are the closest relatives to biblical Israelites.

Today's Jews in Israel are mostly converts from Russia, Europe and other parts of the world.

Because the records of Israelite tribes lineages were destroyed in the Great Judgement in the first century, all such claims todays are just guesses or simply invented.
 
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My good friend I gather descends from the Levites. His last name is even a derivative of Levi. He did one of those DNA tests which confirmed majority Ashkenazi Jew. His cousins are still at odds with the Ishmaelites as was to be expected.
 
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DamianWarS

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I read somewhere that Palestinians are the closest relatives to biblical Israelites.

Today's Jews in Israel are mostly converts from Russia, Europe and other parts of the world.
So then are we all gentile? Have all original branches of the olive tree been broken off and only the grafted remain or are added to it?
 
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solid_core

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So then are we all gentile? Have all original branches of the olive tree been broken off and only the grafted remain or are added to it?
Because European and other nations accepted Christianity very quickly and are Christian, monotheistic nations for millenia, I would not call us Gentiles in the meaning "historically separated from God and from His covenant", but just nationally.

Right now, Gentiles are so called Jews, because they are without any covenant with God.
 
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DamianWarS

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My good friend I gather descends from the Levites. His last name is even a derivative of Levi. He did one of those DNA tests which confirmed majority Ashkenazi Jew. His cousins are still at odds with the Ishmaelites as was to be expected.
What is an "Ashkenazi Jew" and how pure is the blood line compared with Moses or Abraham?
 
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DamianWarS

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Because European and other nations accepted Christianity very quickly and are Christian, monotheistic nations for millenia, I would not call us Gentiles in the meaning "historically separated from God and from His covenant", but just nationally.

Right now, Gentiles are so called Jews, because they are without any covenant with God.
My question is more of genetics than of spiritual characteristics. If we are grafted in we are Christ's, and children of God, the rest of the labels don't matter.
 
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Scott Husted

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there has been a number of Jewish diasporas over the centuries, most notable the destruction of the temple in 70 AD and subsequent exile. A lot of time has passed and since then Hebrew has become a dead language since the 2nd century (now revived only a little over 100 years ago). Over this wide spread of people to distant lands, time and loss of identity is there really any such thing as a Jew today? or are we all Gentile?

It would be interesting indeed to have the entire genetic map laid out before us of every human being to see what is what at the present time we are living in.

Once when I was talking to an Egyptian he had said to me We are all sons of Adam ... and he would not be incorrect according to the Bible ...
 
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solid_core

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My question is more of genetics than of spiritual characteristics. If we are grafted in we are Christ's, and children of God, the rest of the labels don't matter.
Palestinians and Palestinian Jews may be genetically close to biblical Jews, but surelly not 100% them. 2,000 years is 2,000 years. Todays French are also not 100% Celts.
 
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DamianWarS

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It would be interesting indeed to have the entire genetic map laid out before us of every human being to see what is what at the present time we are living in.

Once when I was talking to an Egyptian he had said to me We are all sons of Adam ... and he would not be incorrect according to the Bible ...
Such a genetic map probably is not possible. But if sons of Adam we are also sons of Noah as well.

Jesus lays out a lot of parables where Jews are rejected, perhaps this judgment was more serious and plans were set in motion to remove the pure blood line so all come as wild olive shoots regardless of what affinity group you connect with.
 
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What is an "Ashkenazi Jew" and how pure is the blood line compared with Moses or Abraham?

Have Jews intermarried? Of course. Wasn't King Solomon believed to have been with the Queen of Sheba, perhaps even getting her pregnant.

Here's wikipedia on the etymology of the word ashkenazi.
Etymology[edit]
From Hebrew אַשְׁכְּנַזִּי‎ ('ashk'nazí), from Biblical Hebrew אַשְׁכְּנַז‎ (ʾaškənaz). Biblical Ashkenaz was the son of Gomer, grandson of Japheth, and great-grandson of Noah. Ashkenaz's descendants were identified with Germans by medieval Jewish tradition. Ashkenaz was the name used for the Rhine river, which is was the starting point of central and eastern European settlement by Jews, who are thought to have arrived in the region from Italy, and then spread East as they fled violent oppression and followed more favorable ownership laws.
 
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DamianWarS

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Palestinians and Palestinian Jews may be genetically close to biblical Jews, but surelly not 100% them. 2,000 years is 2,000 years. Todays French are also not 100% Celts.
I am relating this to Romans 11 describing an olive tree with natural and grafted in branches. 2000 years will off course be genetic suicide for the pure blood, especially in more modern eras however something that would have exponential effect would be wide scattering across the face of the earth, something Jews certainly have claim to on multiple occasions.

So what then is the pedigree of a natural branch as per Romans 11? Is it genetics and how pure does one have to be?
 
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solid_core

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So what then is the pedigree of a natural branch as per Romans 11? Is it genetics and how pure does one have to be?

It cannot be genetics, because people in those times had no idea about genetics. Paul had the state of being historically in the covenant with God in mind.

All this was done with in the judgement delivered by Titus.
 
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Scott Husted

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Such a genetic map probably is not possible. But if sons of Adam we are also sons of Noah as well.

Jesus lays out a lot of parables where Jews are rejected, perhaps this judgment was more serious and plans were set in motion to remove the pure blood line so all come as wild olive shoots regardless of what affinity group you connect with.

Perhaps we are all the living testament of God coming to this consensus ...
 
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DamianWarS

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Have Jews intermarried? Of course. Wasn't King Solomon believed to have been with the Queen of Sheba, perhaps even getting her pregnant.

Here's wikipedia on the etymology of the word ashkenazi.
Etymology[edit]
From Hebrew אַשְׁכְּנַזִּי‎ ('ashk'nazí), from Biblical Hebrew אַשְׁכְּנַז‎ (ʾaškənaz). Biblical Ashkenaz was the son of Gomer, grandson of Japheth, and great-grandson of Noah. Ashkenaz's descendants were identified with Germans by medieval Jewish tradition. Ashkenaz was the name used for the Rhine river, which is was the starting point of central and eastern European settlement by Jews, who are thought to have arrived in the region from Italy, and then spread East as they fled violent oppression and followed more favorable ownership laws.
Christ himself is mixed blood, such as Ruth and Rehab and perhaps that alone is a large enough deviation. Certainly spiritual speaking the point seems to be the slightest amount has effect on the whole and can't be separated. But not being quite that strict and still considering the disciples to all be natural branches of Rom 11 how much mix blood must take place to no longer be what was 2000 years ago? Or does it matter? Are natural branches more about cultural and religious distinctions than genetic?
 
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DamianWarS

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It cannot be genetics, because people in those times had no idea about genetics. Paul had the state of being historically in the covenant with God in mind.

All this was done with in the judgement delivered by Titus.
Perhaps not on a DNA level but a bloodline was important and I think the Samaritans are a testament to how bloodlines can be rejected.

But you bring up an interesting point, if a covenant is the identiy and it has passed, does this remove the credentials needed to be a natural branch with it?
 
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solid_core

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But you bring up an interesting point, if a covenant is the identiy and it has passed, does this remove the credentials needed to be a natural branch with it?

Jesus is the natural tree. Jews were growing from this tree "naturally", because they were in a covenant with Him. After they killed Him and disbelived Him, they were cut off from the tree and Gentiles were put on the tree instead.

The judgement over Israel, Jerusalem and temple in the first century made end to the Jewish era. I do not think that Jews (lets call them so, for the sake of argument) today are natural branches, after such events and time.

Simply, I do not think it makes sense today, to read the letter of Paul and apply it to todays reality.
 
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What is an "Ashkenazi Jew" and how pure is the blood line compared with Moses or Abraham?
Just ask yourself do you suppose Jesus looked like a European? That's what an Ashkenazi Jew is. I don't think Moses or Abraham looked like Europeans.
 
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DamianWarS

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Simply, I do not think it makes sense today, to read the letter of Paul and apply it to todays reality.
It however seems to be a popular application. Perhaps identifying "Jews" in this way was in poor taste on my part and I don't mean to attack anyone's heritage or come across as antisemitic. Prejudice is not my focus but rather how we should look at the natural branches applied today or if we should at all. Implications of course affect how we view the world in a spiritual context and who our mission is and how we should be supporting that mission.
 
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DamianWarS

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Just ask yourself do you suppose Jesus looked like a European? That's what Ashkenazi Jew is. I don't think Moses or Abraham looked like Europeans.
Do you consider a "mostly" Ashkenazi Jew (today) as a natural branch as described in Romans 11?
 
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