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Do "good" atheists go to heaven?

StevenMerten

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What about Pope Pious X?
Pope Leo XIII ?
Pope Pious IV?

You named 3 Popes who were contemporaries of each other
Pope Francis was made a Bishop by Pope John Paul II
So yes the last three Popes have had some ideas about salvation outside the Church
Let’s look back 100 years, 200 years, 300 years, 400 years, 500 years, 600 years
You see markedly different views
It seems the vast majority of Popes had a different idea about heretics and atheists

Hello Rhamiel,

I know, Right!

I have my collection of books from St. Thomas Aquinas, St. Augustine, St. Bede, St. Robert Bellarmine, buried in the backyard. When Pope Francis dispatches his Church Teaching Security Forces, to search and destroy, all semblance of those who do not fit his reformed ‘new understanding’ of Church Teaching, which is basically any Church Teaching before 1978, my books will be safe.

Ooops! I probably should not have said that on the internet. Well, it’s a nice day. I guess I will be out digging and relocating my Church Teaching collection of books.

No Salvation Outside the (Catholic) Church

Pope St. Pius X (1903–1914), Encyclical Jucunda sane: "It is our duty to recall to everyone great and small, as the Holy Pontiff Gregory did in ages past, the absolute necessity which is ours, to have recourse to this Church to effect our eternal salvation."

Pope Leo XIII (1878–1903), Encyclical Annum ingressi sumus: "This is our last lesson to you; receive it, engrave it in your minds, all of you: by God's commandment salvation is to be found nowhere but in the Church." idem, Encyclical Sapientiae christianae: "He scatters and gathers not who gathers not with the Church and with Jesus Christ, and all who fight not jointly with Him and with the Church are in very truth contending against God."

Pope Pius XII (1939–1958), Encyclical Humani Generis, August 12, 1950: "Some reduce to a meaningless formula the necessity of belonging to the true Church in order to gain eternal salvation."

Saint Thomas Aquinas (died A.D. 1274):
"There is no entering into salvation outside the Church, just as in the time of the deluge there was none outside the ark, which denotes the Church." (Summa Theologiae)

Saint Augustine (died A.D. 430):
"No man can find salvation except in the Catholic Church. Outside the Catholic Church one can have everything except salvation. One can have honor, one can have the sacraments, one can sing alleluia, one can answer amen, one can have faith in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Ghost, and preach it too, but never can one find salvation except in the Catholic Church." (Sermo ad Caesariensis Ecclesia plebem)

Saint Fulgentius (died A.D. 533):
"Most firmly hold and never doubt that not only pagans, but also all Jews, all heretics, and all schismatics who finish this life outside of the Catholic Church, will go into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels." (Enchiridion Patristicum)

Saint Bede the Venerable (died A.D. 735):
"Just as all within the ark were saved and all outside of it were carried away when the flood came, so when all who are pre-ordained to eternal life have entered the Church, the end of the world will come and all will perish who are found outside." (Hexaemeron)

Saint Peter Canisius (died A.D. 1597):
"Outside of this communion – as outside of the ark of Noah – there is absolutely no salvation for mortals: not for Jews or pagans who never received the faith of the Church, nor for heretics who, having received it, corrupted it; neither for the excommunicated or those who for any other serious cause deserve to be put away and separated from the body of the Church like pernicious members…for the rule of Cyprian and Augustine is certain: he will not have God for his Father who would not have the Church for his mother." (Catechismi Latini et Germanici)

Saint Robert Bellarmine (died A.D. 1621):
"Outside the Church there is no salvation…therefore in the symbol [Apostles Creed] we join together the Church with the remission of sins: `I believe in the Holy Catholic Church, the communion of Saints, the forgiveness of sins’…For this reason the Church is compared with the ark of Noah, because just as during the deluge, everyone perished who was not in the ark, so now those perish who are not in the Church." (De Sacramento Baptismi)

Fourth Lateran Council (1215): "There is but one universal Church of the faithful, outside which no one at all is saved."

Council of Florence, Cantate Domino (1441): "The most Holy Roman Church firmly believes, professes and preaches that none of those existing outside the Catholic Church, not only pagans, but also Jews and heretics and schismatics, can have a share in life eternal; but that they will go into the "eternal fire which was prepared for the devil and his angels" (Matthew 25:41), unless before death they are joined with Her; and that so important is the unity of this ecclesiastical body that only those remaining within this unity can profit by the sacraments of the Church unto salvation, and they alone can receive an eternal recompense for their fasts, their almsgivings, their other works of Christian piety and the duties of a Christian soldier. No one, let his almsgiving be as great as it may, no one, even if he pour out his blood for the Name of Christ, can be saved, unless he remain within the bosom and the unity of the Catholic Church." The same council also ruled that those who die in original sin, but without mortal sin, will also find punishment in hell, but unequally: "But the souls of those who depart this life in actual mortal sin, or in original sin alone, go down straightaway to hell to be punished, but with unequal pains."

All quotes from: Extra Ecclesiam nulla salus - Wikipedia​
 
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StevenMerten

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Saint Bede the Venerable (died A.D. 735):
"Just as all within the ark were saved and all outside of it were carried away when the flood came, so when all who are pre-ordained to eternal life have entered the Church, the end of the world will come and all will perish who are found outside."

JESUS, THE DIVINE MERCY, by St.Faustina

Jesus looked at me and said, Souls perish in spite of My bitter Passion. I am giving them the last hope of salvation; that is, the Feast of My Mercy. If they will not adore My mercy, they will perish for all eternity. Secretary of My mercy, write, tell souls about this great mercy of Mine, because the awful day, the day of My justice, is near. (Diary 965)

The Blessed Virgin Mary :

... you have to speak to the world about His great mercy and prepare the world for the Second Coming of Him who will come, not as a merciful Savior, but as a just Judge. Oh, how terrible is that day! Determined is the day of justice, the day of divine wrath. The angels tremble before it. Speak to souls about this great mercy while it is still the time for [granting] mercy. If you keep silent now, you will be answering for a great number of souls on that terrible day. ... (635)

Saint Robert Bellarmine (died A.D. 1621):
"Outside the Church there is no salvation…therefore in the symbol [Apostles Creed] we join together the Church with the remission of sins: `I believe in the Holy Catholic Church, the communion of Saints, the forgiveness of sins’…For this reason the Church is compared with the ark of Noah, because just as during the deluge, everyone perished who was not in the ark, so now those perish who are not in the Church."

Jesus and the Blessed Mother are begging Catholics to bring as many people into the Catholic Sacrament of Baptism and Reconciliation, Divine Mercy Sunday, and The Catholic Chaplet of Divine Mercy, before the great day of God's Wrath comes. The Catholic Church is the Ark, (specifically those Catholics who have immersed themselves in Jesus' Divine Mercy), you want to be in when the day Jesus Comes, in His Second Coming, as Just Judge. Not many are going to make it through the Second Coming of Jesus. The Blessed Mother tells us that whole nations will be lost. If there ever were a time to be screaming to the world, 'NO SALVATION OUTSIDE THE CATHOLIC CHURCH', it is right now!

Isaiah 26:20 DAY OF THE lORD: REWARD AND PUNISHMENT
Go, my people, enter your chambers, and close the doors behind you; Hide yourselves for a brief moment, until the wrath is past. See, the LORD goes forth from his place, to punish the wickedness of the earth’s inhabitants;
The earth will reveal the blood shed upon it, and no longer conceal the slain.

Isaiah 66
The LORD’s power shall be revealed to his servants, but to his enemies, his wrath. For see, the LORD will come in fire, his chariots like the stormwind; To wreak his anger in burning rage and his rebuke in fiery flames. For with fire the LORD shall enter into judgment, and, with his sword, against all flesh; Those slain by the LORD shall be many. Those who sanctify and purify themselves to go into the gardens, following one who stands within

Just as the new heavens and the new earth which I am making Shall endure before me—oracle of the LORD—so shall your descendants and your name endure. From new moon to new moon, and from sabbath to sabbath, All flesh shall come to worship before me, says the LORD. They shall go out and see the corpses of the people who rebelled against me; For their worm shall not die, their fire shall not be extinguished; and they shall be an abhorrence to all flesh.

Jerimiah 25:11
The LORD roars from on high, from his holy dwelling he raises his voice; Mightily he roars over the range, a shout like that of vintagers over the grapes. To all who inhabit the earth to its very ends the uproar spreads; For the LORD has an indictment against the nations, he is to pass judgment upon all mankind: The godless shall be given to the sword, says the LORD. Thus says the LORD of hosts: Lo! calamity stalks from nation to nation; A great storm is unleashed from the ends of the earth. On that day, those whom the LORD has slain will be from one end of the earth to the other.

Malachi 3:1
Lo, I am sending my messenger to prepare the way before me; And
suddenly there will come to the temple the LORD whom you seek, And the messenger of the covenant whom you desire. Yes, he is coming, says the LORD of hosts. But who will endure the day of his coming? And who can stand when he appears? For he is like the refiner’s fire, or like the fuller’s lye. He will sit refining and purifying (silver), and he will purify the sons of Levi, Refining them like gold or like silver that they may offer due sacrifice to the LORD.

Isaiah 4:2 JERUSALEM PURIFIED
On that day, The branch of the LORD will be beauty and glory, and the fruit of the land will be honor and splendor for the survivors of Israel. Everyone who remains in Zion, everyone left in Jerusalem Will be called holy: everyone inscribed for life in Jerusalem. When the Lord washes away the filth of the daughters of Zion, And purges Jerusalem’s blood from her midst with a blast of judgment, a searing blast


Isaiah 13
Howl, for the day of the LORD is near; as destruction from the Almighty it comes. Therefore all hands fall helpless, every human heart melts, and they are terrified, Pangs and sorrows take hold of them, like a woman in labor they writhe; They look aghast at each other, their faces aflame. Indeed, the day of the LORD comes, cruel, with wrath and burning anger; To lay waste the land and destroy the sinners within it! The stars of the heavens and their constellations will send forth no light; The sun will be dark at its rising, and the moon will not give its light. Thus I will punish the world for its evil and the wicked for their guilt. I will put an end to the pride of the arrogant, the insolence of tyrants I will humble. I will make mortals more rare than pure gold, human beings, than the gold of Ophir. For this I will make the heavens tremble and the earth shall be shaken from its place, At the wrath of the LORD of hosts on the day of his burning anger.


 
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LivingWordUnity

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One question

Has anyone actually returned from heaven and told us ?
We know from the divine teaching authority of the Church that those in heaven see the beatific vision of God. So it would make no sense for someone to be in heaven while remaining an atheist.
 
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StevenMerten

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When we read Jesus' Gospel, the Blessed Mother's First Secret of Fatima, or Old Testament prophesy about the Second Coming of Christ, described by God the Father, they all are warning us to repent for fear of going to hell. Catholic leaders refuse to repeat these messages from Jesus, the Blessed Mother and God the Father. I don't know, I guess Church leaders want a worldly look of being more loving and forgiving than Jesus, the Blessed Mother and God the Father, so they simply deny the reality of where unrepentant love ones actually go. Just because Church leaders do not follow the lead of Jesus, the Blessed Mother and God the Father, and warn the world to repent or burn in hell, does not change the reality of the masses of unrepentant wicked who are going to be hurled into hell upon Jesus, soon to come, Second Coming. If a disciple of Jesus wants to actually love his fellow man, these disciples of Jesus are going to be screaming to the world to repent or burn in hell; At our present era of time especially.

Matthew 13:36
Then, dismissing the crowds, he went into the house. His disciples approached him and said, "Explain to us the parable of the weeds in the field." He said in reply, "He who sows good seed is the Son of Man, the field is the world, the good seed the children of the kingdom. The weeds are the children of the evil one, and the enemy who sows them is the devil. The harvest is the end of the age, and the harvesters are angels. Just as weeds are collected and burned (up) with fire, so will it be at the end of the age. The Son of Man will send his angels, and they will collect out of his kingdom all who cause others to sin and all evildoers. They will throw them into the fiery furnace, where there will be wailing and grinding of teeth. Then the righteous will shine like the sun in the kingdom of their Father. Whoever has ears ought to hear."


The First Secret of Fatima

Well, the secret is made up of three distinct parts, two of which I am now going to reveal.

The first part is the vision of hell.

Our Lady showed us a great sea of fire which seemed to be under the earth. Plunged in this fire were demons and souls in human form, like transparent burning embers, all blackened or burnished bronze, floating about in the conflagration, now raised into the air by the flames that issued from within themselves together with great clouds of smoke, now falling back on every side like sparks in a huge fire, without weight or equilibrium, and amid shrieks and groans of pain and despair, which horrified us and made us tremble with fear. The demons could be distinguished by their terrifying and repulsive likeness to frightful and unknown animals, all black and transparent. This vision lasted but an instant. How can we ever be grateful enough to our kind heavenly Mother, who had already prepared us by promising, in the first Apparition, to take us to heaven. Otherwise, I think we would have died of fear and terror.

We then looked up at Our Lady, who said to us so kindly and so sadly:

“You have seen hell where the souls of poor sinners go.
Quoted from: The Message of Fatima

Isaiah 13
Howl, for the day of the LORD is near; as destruction from the Almighty it comes. Therefore all hands fall helpless, every human heart melts, and they are terrified, Pangs and sorrows take hold of them, like a woman in labor they writhe; They look aghast at each other, their faces aflame. Indeed, the day of the LORD comes, cruel, with wrath and burning anger; To lay waste the land and destroy the sinners within it! The stars of the heavens and their constellations will send forth no light; The sun will be dark at its rising, and the moon will not give its light. Thus I will punish the world for its evil and the wicked for their guilt. I will put an end to the pride of the arrogant, the insolence of tyrants I will humble. I will make mortals more rare than pure gold, human beings, than the gold of Ophir. For this I will make the heavens tremble and the earth shall be shaken from its place, At the wrath of the LORD of hosts on the day of his burning anger.


 
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StevenMerten

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I think most of the masses of unrepentant wicked actually see the Devil as the most loving and forgiving being in the universe.

Genesis 3
Now the snake was the most cunning of all the wild animals that the LORD God had made. He asked the woman, “Did God really say, ‘You shall not eat from any of the trees in the garden’?” it is only about the fruit of the tree in the middle of the garden that God said, ‘You shall not eat it or even touch it, or else you will die.’” But the snake said to the woman: “You certainly will not die!
 
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StevenMerten

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So what if the boy told Pope Francis, 'I am just kidding. My father is an atheist who never did a good thing in his life! My dad is still alive and he is standing right over there. I still love my dad, though.'

In this case, would Pope Francis have brought up St. Jacinta to the young boy? St. Jacinta was seven years old when she was out trying to bring people to Jesus for the salvation of their souls. St. Jacinta died when she was ten years old. St. Jacinta was terrified by the vision of hell that the Blessed Mother showed her. Because of this, St. Jacinta, a seven year old, would walk right up to adults and tell them to repent of from the sins she saw them committing. St. Jacinta packed a great deal of sainthood into her short three years of life, from seven to ten years old. You, little boy, are about St. Jacinta's age. You can take up your work as Christ's disciple and bring your father to Jesus for the salvation of his soul. What a great reward this would be in heaven to have your dear father at your side, and him thanking you for all eternity, for bringing him to Jesus.
 
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Davidnic

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Maybe he would say that hopefully the father would look at the previous response and the love of Christ that was shown to him. And if in his past experience, in interactions with those who claimed the name but not the actions of Christians face to face or online, he did not see the love of Christ...he would now. And invite him to experience Christ through the real teachings of the Catholic Church and not the perception of others. And that he would use the love of his son as a guide. Maybe the Pope would have said that.

I don't know what the Pope would have said and I am reluctant to reduce the tears of the child to a hypothetical what if. But if you want an answer maybe the above.
 
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StevenMerten

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Maybe he would say that hopefully the father would look at the previous response and the love of Christ that was shown to him. And if in his past experience, in interactions with those who claimed the name but not the actions of Christians face to face or online, he did not see the love of Christ...he would now. And invite him to experience Christ through the real teachings of the Catholic Church and not the perception of others. And that he would use the love of his son as a guide. Maybe the Pope would have said that.

I don't know what the Pope would have said and I am reluctant to reduce the tears of the child to a hypothetical what if. But if you want an answer maybe the above.

Hello Davidic,
Are you saying that it was unchristlike for St. Jacinta, a seven year old, to confront an adult, to repent of their sins, as she explains the vision of hell that the Blessed Mother showed her?
 
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StevenMerten

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Nope not saying that at all. If that is how you read it, do so again.
Hello Davidic,
So if an abortionist is crying, and in deep pain, as she goes into the operating room to kill her child, should you comfort her with Jesus forgives you, or should you tell her about the Blessed Mother's vision of hell? Which would Jesus do?

Genesis 3
Now the snake was the most cunning of all the wild animals that the LORD God had made. He asked the woman, “Did God really say, ‘You shall not eat from any of the trees in the garden’?” it is only about the fruit of the tree in the middle of the garden that God said, ‘You shall not eat it or even touch it, or else you will die.’” But the snake said to the woman: “You certainly will not die!
 
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Davidnic

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Logical fallacy, appeal to emotion and irrelevant to the current discussion.

Also it's not an either-or situation. You can present her with God's forgiveness but tell her forgiveness requires an action to turn the heart to Christ. But you can't weep in pain then go kill. You can also present the vision of hell as the End Road of even sorrowfully maintaining error.

But that isn't related to what the pope said.
 
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Rhamiel

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pretty much not.

So Abraham, Noah (the list goes on) aren't in Heaven? What an....interesting viewpoint.

read 1rst Peter 3:19–20

the prophets of the Old Testament had faith that the Messiah would save them
do not put words in my mouth, if you do not understand what I mean, feel free to ask me to clarify, but oversimplifying my views to the point of absurdity is uncharitable
 
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bill5

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I didn't "put words in your mouth," I made a reasonable conclusion based on your response to "So does everyone who is not a christian go to hell" as you said "pretty much so." The oversimplification was yours, which is my point. The real answer to the orig question is obviously "no."
 
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mark46

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I note that this analysis implies that God's Mercy requires two actions from man, and is therefore limited.

They would have to repent of their atheism and beg God for mercy.

They can't go into Heaven as an atheist.
 
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