Do all liberals support abortion and LGBTQ+?

Do you believe in abortion and LGBTQ?

  • I support abortion

    Votes: 3 13.0%
  • I do not support abortion, but I support women’s rights to choose an abortion

    Votes: 7 30.4%
  • I do not support abortion at all

    Votes: 9 39.1%
  • I support LGBTQ

    Votes: 16 69.6%
  • I do not support LGBTQ

    Votes: 6 26.1%

  • Total voters
    23

Vesper_Jaye✝️

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I’m a conservative, but I understand the rules of this forum and I’ll be respectful of liberal Christians in this thread.

Do all liberals, specifically liberal Christians, support abortion and LGBTQ+?

Just wondering how much these issues are tied to politics.
 

justme6272

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I’m a conservative, but I understand the rules of this forum and I’ll be respectful of liberal Christians in this thread.

Do all liberals, specifically liberal Christians, support abortion and LGBTQ+?

Just wondering how much these issues are tied to politics.
Yes they do, by way of their support of the Democrat party and it's platform, regardless of what they say. And the God of the Bible that I know can't possibly be pleased, and such unrepentant people will not inherit the Kingdom of God. If I'm wrong, then the Bible is wrong. I'm believing what's in the Bible.
I was in a liberal church (claiming to be Baptist) just today where a man leading a prayer said 'we follow the teachings of Christ.' WRONG. They pick and choose what they want to follow.....SOME of the teachings, but not all. An openly gay person could serve on a committee, women can be deacons and preach sermons, and two men who believe they are somehow 'married' with matching 'wedding rings' are welcome just like anyone else.
It's called cafeteria style religion, where you go through the line (the Bible) and pick and choose what looks good to ya and leave the rest.
 
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friend of

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The full and true Christian position on abortion is pro-life. I would suggest any who are pro-choice here to seriously reconsider their opinion.

As far as LGBTQ, I support women's rights but I think recent trans activism has harmed the feminist movement. Feminism is also not what it once was.

I believe the bible is clear about homosexuality and such relationships. Anyone who identifies as gay and Christian should be practicing celibacy until they meet the Lord face to face.
 
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seeking.IAM

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Skipping the poll, but the answer is "no," all liberals do not support abortion and LGBTQ. There is not a liberal manifesto that liberals are obligated to follow. Some support one, some support both, and some support none.

Then there is the question of what does "support" mean?
 
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PloverWing

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I’m a conservative, but I understand the rules of this forum and I’ll be respectful of liberal Christians in this thread.

Do all liberals, specifically liberal Christians, support abortion and LGBTQ+?

Just wondering how much these issues are tied to politics.

I become more liberal the older I get, so I guess it's reasonable for me to answer here.

As @seeking.IAM said, Liberal Christians are not unanimous on these issues; you'll see different opinions from different people. So I'll speak only for myself. I draw heavily from my Christian faith as I consider these issues. I also respect that other Christians come to different conclusions.

I support the full inclusion of LGBTQ Christians in the church. I see abortion as a morally complicated question, without easy answers.

Both of these are ethical statements, not political statements. The question of how much of our Christian ethics should be implemented into law in a secular, multi-religious state such as the US is a separate question.
 
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SkyWriting

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Yes they do, by way of their support of the Democrat party and it's platform, regardless of what they say. And the God of the Bible that I know can't possibly be pleased, and such unrepentant people will not inherit the Kingdom of God. If I'm wrong, then the Bible is wrong. I'm believing what's in the Bible. I was in a liberal church (claiming to be Baptist) just today where a man leading a prayer said 'we follow the teachings of Christ.' WRONG. They pick and choose what they want to follow.....SOME of the teachings, but not all. An openly gay person could serve on a committee, women can be deacons, and two men who believe they are somehow 'married' with matching 'wedding rings' are welcome just like anyone else. It's called cafeteria style religion, where you go through the line (the Bible) and pick and choose what looks good to ya and leave the rest.

Democrats are more diverse and a good percentage vote more independent rather than straight party line.
 
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SkyWriting

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I’m a conservative, but I understand the rules of this forum and I’ll be respectful of liberal Christians in this thread.Do all liberals, specifically liberal Christians, support abortion and LGBTQ+?Just wondering how much these issues are tied to politics.

Liberals are well known to have far more diverse opinions than the other groups. In the case of abortions, a more progressive stand is to allow people to think independently and make their own choices. As for supporting alternative love interests, again liberals lean toward letting people choose their own living partners rather than asking the tribe to choose for them.
 
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SkyWriting

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Yes they do, by way of their support of the Democrat party and it's platform, regardless of what they say. And the God of the Bible that I know can't possibly be pleased, and such unrepentant people will not inherit the Kingdom of God. If I'm wrong, then the Bible is wrong. I'm believing what's in the Bible.
I was in a liberal church (claiming to be Baptist) just today where a man leading a prayer said 'we follow the teachings of Christ.' WRONG. They pick and choose what they want to follow.....SOME of the teachings, but not all. An openly gay person could serve on a committee, women can be deacons, and two men who believe they are somehow 'married' with matching 'wedding rings' are welcome just like anyone else.
It's called cafeteria style religion, where you go through the line (the Bible) and pick and choose what looks good to ya and leave the rest.

We don't stone children who disobey their parents anymore, so I'm glad the church has made progress.

Deuteronomy 21
"This son of ours is stubborn and rebellious; he will not obey our voice; he is a glutton and a drunkard." Then all the men of his city shall stone him to death with stones; so you shall put away the evil from among you, and all Israel shall hear and fear.
 
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angelsaroundme

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Some don't support LGBT at all and some support gays but not transgender people. Others support transgender people but not the surgeries. There is a lot of variation.

I think many are single-issue voters. It means they primarily vote for a candidate for one thing and may not agree with any other position they have.
 
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justme6272

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We don't stone children who disobey their parents anymore, so I'm glad the church has made progress.

Deuteronomy 21
"This son of ours is stubborn and rebellious; he will not obey our voice; he is a glutton and a drunkard." Then all the men of his city shall stone him to death with stones; so you shall put away the evil from among you, and all Israel shall hear and fear.
That's not a legitimate analogy, but rather just another lame excuse for sin in a long list of excuses. There's a big difference between stoning the stubborn and rebellious child and giving them leadership positions in the church. Paul taught to not even allow the blatantly immoral adult to fellowship with the rest of the church until they repented of their sin and stopped doing what they were doing. To give such people inclusion in leadership is abhorrent. I've sat in church services where they are allowed to get up in the pulpit and pray on behalf of the congregation. People close their eyes and go along as if they have no doubts that God is listening.
 
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justme6272

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Some don't support LGBT at all and some support gays but not transgender people. Others support transgender people but not the surgeries. There is a lot of variation.

I think many are single-issue voters. It means they primarily vote for a candidate for one thing and may not agree with any other position they have.
Some support disobedience to God and God can't possibly be pleased. Hence, they can't possibly care about pleasing God with their vote.
 
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SkyWriting

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That's not a legitimate analogy, but rather just another lame excuse for sin in a long list of excuses. There's a big difference between stoning the stubborn and rebellious child and giving them leadership positions in the church. Paul taught to not even allow the blatantly immoral adult to fellowship with the rest of the church until they repented of their sin and stopped doing what they were doing. To give such people inclusion in leadership is abhorrent. I've sat in church services where they are allowed to get up in the pulpit and pray on behalf of the congregation. People close their eyes and go along as if they have no doubts that God is listening.
There are no bad reasons for prayer....(except praying for non-believers to be forgiven.)
 
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SkyWriting

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Paul taught to not even allow the blatantly immoral adult to fellowship with the rest of the church until they repented of their sin and stopped doing what they were doing. To give such people inclusion in leadership is abhorrent.

Paul was writing his letters to infant churches. Premie churches actually.
He was writing to churches what were not grown up and not one person had a copy of the Bible to read.

Now that we all have a copy, we don't need Paul to guide the church body at all.
Churches are grown up enough to make their own decisions. Mostly because we
have the actual teachings of Jesus, whom Paul never met or ever heard directly speak. We don't even have Pauls written permission to reprint his letters to the individual churches.
 
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hedrick

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There are problems with the poll. First, it's never been clear whether this group is for political or theological liberals. Second, there's no way to be sure that peope voting in it are actually liberal.

I think among either political or theological liberals a majority would favor full inclusion of LGBT. Indeed that's assumed in the ground rules for this forum, and was supported by a vote. For that vote, moderators verified that the people participating seemed to be regular contributors to this group.

I don't know how a vote on abortion would come out among people who actually identify as liberal. I'm guessing a majority would not favor laws against it, but that's just a guess.
 
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hedrick

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Paul was writing his letters to infant churches. Premie churches actually.
He was writing to churches what were not grown up and not one person had a copy of the Bible to read.

Now that we all have a copy, we don't need Paul to guide the church body at all.
Churches are grown up enough to make their own decisions. Mostly because we
have the actual teachings of Jesus, whom Paul never met or ever heard directly speak. We don't even have Pauls written permission to reprint his letters to the individual churches.
That wasn't the primary role for Paul. First, I don't think unavailability of Scripture was an issue. The first Christians were Jews, and they definitely had Scripture available. Gentile Christians probably came from Gentiles who hung around the synagogues. They would have had access as well.

Paul's primary role seems to have been to help the Church decide what Christianity meant for Gentiles. Jesus, after all, had targeted Jews. Paul had to deal with questions like circumcision, the Sabbath, and eating meat sacrificed to idols. Romans is a great book, but it’s not abstract theology. It was written in order to deal with the question of whether you had to become Jewish to be Christian.

The issues he dealt with would not have been solved by better access to Scripture (which for them would be the OT).

When Paul thought about questions, he could be pretty radical. But there’s no reason to think he thought about people who couldn’t have the kind of relationship with the opposite sex that we currently expect in marriage, but wanted to have that kind of relationship with members of their own sex. He mentioned same-gender sex in the course of making a completely different point, and possibly (I still think it’s not clear what the words meant) in a list of sins. It’s not fair to Paul to take those off-hand references to current Jewish standards as eternal law.

Indeed one of he primary differences between conservative and liberal Christians is that liberal Christians think that Christ is not tied down to the particular Jewish culture in which he appeared. Jesus gave the Church the right and responsibility to settle questions like this. (That’s what the power of the keys is.) I believe conservative churches are refusing to do what he charged us with doing.

Paul actually provides an example of the proper use of this authority, in helping Gentile Christians decide what did and what did not apply from the Old Testament. We should follow that example.
 
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SkyWriting

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That wasn't the primary role for Paul. First, I don't think unavailability of Scripture was an issue.

What I meant was Jesus was a far better teacher about Christianity since Paul had little of His record to work with. So I usually study what Jesus said and how Jesus acted and ignore Paul. It's very un- Paulien of me. I don't think a single thing Paul said should get any attention over what we can learn from Jesus' ministry first. So many people are rabid about Paul's teachings which seem to be the pivot point of endless arguments. Even though such arguments are themselves discouraged by Paul.
 
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MOD HAT ON

350015_0f282d4b538245f7d5ab333c90dad940.jpeg


We should always tread lightly as a guest in a dedicated forum. The OP took the right approach in the preamble to the OP.

MOD HAT OFF
 
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