The freedom to do stupid things is really no freedom at all. It is merely a sexy form of slavery to carnality.
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The freedom to do stupid things is really no freedom at all. It is merely a sexy form of slavery to carnality.
That prof. can permanently kick you out of his/her class if you break the class attendance rules and give you an incomplete for a class grade. Keep showing up late for class they can tell you to leave, see ya' next class.If teachers are my authority, and I'm a 23 year old man going to college, then what can teachers command me to do that I must do? What does that authority actually even look like?
If I wish to learn a subject...the professor isn't lord over me, and I can learn in the class anyways.
If I miss too many classes, and If I miss tests, I'll just get an F. It's really all up to me personally, and I get out what I put in. Can the prof. kick me out of the class for no good reason? Nope, he is subject to his employers will on that matter. It's more of a business decision, and the prof. isn't an authority over me personally. If I mess up, I'm kicking myself out, or failing myself. It still doesn't seem like the prof. is an authority, since I don't really have to do what they say, just because the prof. is the prof. There's no law that says "Professors must be obeyed or you get jail time". The professor is a servant. He gives us what we are paying for, lectures.That prof. can permanently kick you out of his/her class if you break the class attendance rules and give you an incomplete for a class grade. Keep showing up late for class they can tell you to leave, see ya' next class.
You do not have authority over how they run their classroom or the rules that the school set up about class attendance.
I like your sense of responsibility for your own actions and the consequences of those actions.If I mess up, I'm kicking myself out, or failing myself.
I don't see any reason to think that. The professor isn't my commander, or father-figure. If anything he's more like my employee. Perhaps my professor is an authority on the subject of math, but he certainly isn't an authority over me personally!
In your fear of secular indoctrination, you would probably scold a stranger for reminding your child to say "Please" and "Thank you" because it is YOUR GOD GIVEN RIGHT and not theirs, and heaven forbid we open the floodgates and let anything in that you haven't explicitly approved.
Well, I'm a tax payer, so I think the collective of the tax payers pay his salary.
I still don't see how he is an authority over me. He's just a guy sharing information that falls in line with what the state and respective departments require.
Well, how I conduct myself is up to me, not the professor. Professors make plans, and in order to get good grades we go along with those plans, but it isn't authoritative. How I preform is up to me, the professor has no control over that. As for grading, the Prof. seems more like a servant, and the same is true of giving lectures. There doesn't seem to be anything "controlling" over me or any students in that regard. As for kicking students out of class, it isn't the case that the professor can simply kick a student out of class. A student kicks him or herself out by being disruptive, or failing to adhere to policies that were mutually assumed to be agreed on when in college. The professor isn't some tall powerful figure of authority casting a shadow over the class. The professor is a servant.What exactly do you think authority means? As a professor, he has authority over his classroom, and that includes how you conduct yourself in his classroom and how you perform on his assignments inside and outside the classroom. He can enforce his authority by removing you from the classroom, or the class entirely, and by adjusting your grades to reflect how well you met his expectations. How is that not authority?
Well, control is one thing, or the right to control. Professors, from what I can tell, lack that, generally speaking. I go to a community college, and it'd be pretty weird if we had to do something in college simply because a person said so. All of what I do in college is just a business decision, and I have the freedom to do what I think is good enough. A professor is not a commanding officer.You're suggesting that the only form of "authority" is one in which a person can control and any and all aspects of your life, and enforce it by jail time.
Soooooo, much of your last resonates in my head too. I can hear my mom.... "And some little voice echoes in my head, "Well, listen to you trying to be the boss. Just who are you, (MR) high and mighty?" And even my own kids later when I would try to be guiding and level headed with the grandkids, "when I told my GRANDchildren they couldn't watch some TV show that I didn't think was morally fit for kids. Just to spite me, family members would then have a laugh while making sure they did watch it. When I'd object, "Oh, it didn't hurt anything. You're being unreasonable." Hummmm, I wonder if we have the same family?All good answers so far. This one especially resonates because I do have leftover problems with even my own authority sometimes. In my younger years, I was never allowed to make a decision for myself. May the Lord have mercy on me if I acted on my own and did the wrong thing. Therefore, I was conditioned to wait to be told what to do. That set me up perfectly for a first marriage to an abusive, controlling, drug-addicted man. It was just more of the same thing I was already used to.
As you might imagine, I had a lot of trouble with raising my children. I never could quite grasp the fact that I was allowed to make a decision. Sometimes my family even outright overruled me, such as when I told my children they couldn't watch some TV show that I didn't think was morally fit for kids. Just to spite me, family members would then have a laugh while making sure they did watch it. When I'd object, "Oh, it didn't hurt anything. You're being unreasonable." They'd compare me to my father, who had mental health issues and was reputed to be very controlling and micromanaging. They didn't do that to anybody else. They singled me out for it. Anybody else in the family who had kids was allowed to raise their own children. If those children also weren't allowed to watch that same show, it got respected, and not interfered with. A rule was only unreasonable if I made it.
That marriage is over, I have little to no contact with most of my childhood family, and God has given me a loving Christian husband. Nowadays, I don't work for a living. I am disabled for both mobility and psychiatric reasons, and my husband supports me. As such, sometimes I don't even feel right telling the cats what to do. "Get off the table." "No, you're not going outside. It's raining." And some little voice echoes in my head, "Well, listen to you trying to be the boss. Just who are you, miss high and mighty?"
I see expressed in this thread a general attitude of being stiffnecked and asserting the right to teach one's children to be stiffnecked as well. That is, an upfront attitude of refusing to submit to anyone who does not have the physical power to force submission, which is actually not an attitude of submission at all. A whole lot of people are essentially saying, "I'm stiff-necked and proud of it!"
This! Some of these positions are rather juvenile. Reminds me of the Key & Peele skit "Turbulence," with a stiff-necked passenger challenging a flight attendant's authority with similar ridiculousness. YouTube link here:
I'm not talking about in extreme situations. I hope it's obvious, nobody would expect a child to obey when some creepazoid says, "Get in my car and go for a ride with me."
Under ordinary circumstances, though, how much authority do adults have, simply by virtue of being adults? Teachers, scout leaders, etc., that's one thing, but perfect strangers? Would you issue a command to a child you don't know, and expect obedience? Or would you say it instead as a suggestion or request, but not as a command? Would it make a difference if there is a safety risk involved, IE telling them to stay away from that growling stray dog, as opposed to telling them to watch their language? At what times would you require your own children to obey the word of adults, just because they are adults? For that matter, does respect always involve obedience, or is it possible to respectfully decline to obey? And how long does this continue? In other words, is obedience to all adults still required of teenagers?