Do all adults have authority over all children?

[LovebirdsFlying]

I'm not talking about in extreme situations. I hope it's obvious, nobody would expect a child to obey when some creepazoid says, "Get in my car and go for a ride with me."

Under ordinary circumstances, though, how much authority do adults have, simply by virtue of being adults? Teachers, scout leaders, etc., that's one thing, but perfect strangers? Would you issue a command to a child you don't know, and expect obedience? Or would you say it instead as a suggestion or request, but not as a command? Would it make a difference if there is a safety risk involved, IE telling them to stay away from that growling stray dog, as opposed to telling them to watch their language? At what times would you require your own children to obey the word of adults, just because they are adults? For that matter, does respect always involve obedience, or is it possible to respectfully decline to obey? And how long does this continue? In other words, is obedience to all adults still required of teenagers?

 

[CodyFaith]

I'm not a parent, but if I had children I wouldn't expect them to have to obey adults simply because their adults.

For that matter I would both expect and demand that adults don't assume authority over my child.

I'll give an example. Say I was at a local pool with my child. And an adult sees my child running and says "Careful, you don't want to slip and hurt yourself!". That would be fine, even if the person was a stranger. But the moment an adult says "Stop running!" in an authoritative way and they had no actual position of authority in that pool (wasn't a lifeguard or anything) - they've crossed the line and I'd definitely be angered.

Only parents/family/whoever the parents give permission to have those rights over their children are entitled to say things like that.

 

[Near]

I saw two little kids playing at the mall. I didn't see their parents around. They were trying to climb on a marble wall-like segment 5 feet above the ground that divides a set of stairs and a ramp. It seemed pretty dangerous so I told them to get down from there since it wasn't safe. I was actually surprised no one else did that...
The kids got down, and I think I did the right thing.
I don't think the issue is whether people are adults, but rather people telling other people what to do. We adults can tell kids what is the right thing to do, and that's okay. We should expect their parents however, to tell them before anyone else has to. If their parents are not good, others would have to lead by example.
I don't think it's about authority, rather it's about responsibility to share wisdom, and help the people and kids around us.

 

[Near]

"Stop running!" in an authoritative way and they had no actual position of authority in that pool (wasn't a lifeguard or anything) - they've crossed the line and I'd definitely be angered.

What if an adult said, "Hey kids, that's dangerous, please don't run around here you could slip on the water!"
I think saying "stop running", is a brief way to get that across. Of course kids will do what they'll do, and parents have the right to tell others not to issue commands to their kids, but I think the reason for strangers stepping in really has to be taken into consideration.

 

[CodyFaith]

What if an adult said, "Hey kids, that's dangerous, please don't run around here you could slip on the water!"
I think saying "stop running", is a brief way to get that across. Of course kids will do what they'll do, and parents have the right to tell others not to issue commands to their kids, but I think the reason for strangers stepping in really has to be taken into consideration.

Hm. I don't even like how that is worded, because "please don't" often implies the person has some sort of authority - like they're telling them flat-out "don't run around the water". It's like you're saying to kids that you have some form of authority over them because kids often wouldn't understand the difference between someone saying that and someone saying a blunt "STOP THAT NOW". Authority is authority often in the eyes of a child - children are fearful of adults.

Attitude goes a long way too, it's not always what's being said but how it's being said. "Please don't" can be said two different ways. One, a plead, or two, a command.

Like I said though if an adult said "careful guys you don't want to hurt yourself" it wouldn't be an issue.

 

[LovebirdsFlying]

I've seen some variation on the issue. To some people, all adults can tell all children what to do, and it's not taking authority over them. They wouldn't have a problem with telling some kid they don't know at the pool, "Hey, stop running!" To them, it's not taking authority until you try to dish out a punishment. "If you don't stop running, you'll have to sit in a chair until I say you can get up," and you're not the lifeguard and you don't know that kid from a sack of sunflower seeds. That's when it's crossing the line.

I don't think I agree. I think even issuing the command is presuming authority.

 

[CodyFaith]

I saw two little kids playing at the mall. I didn't see their parents around. They were trying to climb on a marble wall-like segment 5 feet above the ground that divides a set of stairs and a ramp. It seemed pretty dangerous so I told them to get down from there since it wasn't safe. I was actually surprised no one else did that...
The kids got down, and I think I did the right thing.
I don't think the issue is whether people are adults, but rather people telling other people what to do. We adults can tell kids what is the right thing to do, and that's okay. We should expect their parents however, to tell them before anyone else has to. If their parents are not good, others would have to lead by example.
I don't think it's about authority, rather it's about responsibility to share wisdom, and help the people and kids around us.

If you convinced them to get down with words, that's fine, but if you commanded them - that's not appropriate in my opinion no matter how well-intentioned.

 

[CodyFaith]

I've seen some variation on the issue. To some people, all adults can tell all children what to do, and it's not taking authority over them. They wouldn't have a problem with telling some kid they don't know at the pool, "Hey, stop running!" To them, it's not taking authority until you try to dish out a punishment. "If you don't stop running, you'll have to sit in a chair until I say you can get up," and you're not the lifeguard and you don't know that kid from a sack of sunflower seeds. That's when it's crossing the line.

I don't think I agree. I think even issuing the command is presuming authority.

I agree.

 

[EmmaCat]

Perhaps maybe teachers and scout leaders and youth leaders do perhaps have a code of conduct. When children misbehave, deal with it and report it to the parents.

Children need to be taught rules. Otherwise, they end up in the back of my husband's patrol car.

 

[SgtBen]

Perhaps maybe teachers and scout leaders and youth leaders do perhaps have a code of conduct. When children misbehave, deal with it and report it to the parents.

Children need to be taught rules. Otherwise, they end up in the back of my husband's patrol car.

I agree, and yes, I'm her husband who drives the patrol car. When a kid gets mad at rules and beats his Mom with a golf club and I have to take the kid to juvenile detention, it makes for a bad day for both of us.

 

[LovebirdsFlying]

Oh, of course, but I wasn't referring to teachers and scout leaders, who obviously do have authority. I mean some random guy on the street that a kid doesn't even know. When safety is involved, and somebody could get hurt, I think a case can be made for speaking up. But should we expect obedience from somebody not actually in our charge? I don't think so.

There was a time in past generations, any adult could even spank any child, whether they knew the child or not, and the parent would just ask, "Well, did you learn your lesson? Don't do that again."

 

[LovebirdsFlying]

I agree, and yes, I'm her husband who drives the patrol car. When a kid gets mad at rules and beats his Mom with a golf club and I have to take the kid to juvenile detention, it makes for a bad day for both of us.

There is a difference between children being made to follow established rules, and children being expected to answer to any and all adults, at any and all times. Are you saying that even strangers have the right to discipline somebody else's children? Because that's what I'm asking about.

 

[SgtBen]

There is a difference between children being made to follow established rules, and children being expected to answer to any and all adults, at any and all times. Are you saying that even strangers have the right to discipline somebody else's children? Because that's what I'm asking about.

A stranger can indeed step in when it comes to safety; i.e. when a child gets into the deep side of the pool and starts to drown and the lifeguard dives in to get him away to safety, but disciplining, no. That comes under the purview of the parents.

A stranger has no right to touch any child or discipline any child. He can ask the parents to control a child who is behaving badly and disturbing others, and he can report abuse from parents as he sees fit, but I never said a stranger can discipline anyone else's child.

 

[LovebirdsFlying]

Thank you for clarifying.

It was brought to mind after remembering some adolescent baggage. I remember being told I had to listen to so-and-so because so-and-so is an adult, when so-and-so was nothing to me.

 

[SgtBen]

Thank you for clarifying.

It was brought to mind after remembering some adolescent baggage. I remember being told I had to listen to so-and-so because so-and-so is an adult, when so-and-so was nothing to me.

You too? I was spanked by a babysitter. She left welts on my rear.

I understand, and I wasn't trying to be rude. Please forgive me.

 

[LovebirdsFlying]

Forgive me also. Emotional reaction.

 

[squirrel123]

I believe any adult has the right to tell a child to follow established rules. (Even other children have that right, although that's unlikely to happen!)
eg. If the pool has a "no running" rule, yes - by all means tell children to stop running.

I don't believe that an adult has the right to tell a child to do anything based merely on what he/she wants.
eg. If there are no rules re. running, but you consider it dangerous, tough luck - it's not your kids, not your responsibility to keep them safe. You can, as posted before, explain the danger to them, but that's it.

I also don't believe that I have the right to enforce rules, punish other people's children, etc. If I tell a child that something isn't allowed, and he/she ignores me, the only thing I can do about it is speak to the child's parents.

If it gets extreme - like a situation we had, where children from the neighborhood repeatedly played on our property while we were at work and caused damage, and the parents refuse to do anything about it, I can go to the police, and have them charged with trespassing / vandalism. (Fortunately their landlord kicked them out before it got that far, and they moved away - phew!)

Spanking them was very tempting, but we knew that that would be going too far, and opening ourselves up for a lawsuit.

 

[Greg J.]

Legitimate authority has to be granted by one who has the authority to do that. The alternative would be to believe that a person can grant himself authority. In fact, Scripture tells us straight out that all (legitimate) authority comes from God, but some of it is through other people or entities. God has granted humans all kinds of authority, but note that when God grants authority, the power to act on it, and to be responsible accompany it. (In fact if God grants the power, it comes with authority and responsibility; if God grants responsibility, authority and power come with it.) Just because someone has legitimate authority doesn't mean they can do whatever they want. God places boundaries on that (sometimes known as not sinning).

Parental authority over their children is from God. God also grants the legitimate government certain authority ("rights"), but that doesn't mean God has granted them the right to do anything. A city's gets some of its authority from the Federal government, state government, county government, and the city's government. While the population may elect the city's top government, the average citizen has limited authority from the city. For example, they cannot give orders to the police, but in some circumstances they may be able to legally order someone off their property.

There is the tacit granting of authority through our culture. For example, if you choose to send your child to a school, you don't necessarily have to sign over the authority to hold your child accountable for their behavior while at school. It is a right that is accepted as implicit through sending the child there. There are also various rights granted over the child because they are on someone else's property. What exactly the schools' rights are regarding how they may punish the child has been a news topic for a long time, because each parent wants to decide for themselves what is acceptable, except it is not the norm for all the parents to go into detail about what is acceptable and what is not for their child. (This is part of the source of loss of respect in our culture.)

Perhaps it is easy to see how "lines of authority" need to be established, that is, agreement among individuals what exactly each person's rights and responsibilities are. It is complicated, especially because some of the rules of how it all works are not written down.

Most of the authority given to parents by the government over their children change when the child turns 18 y.o., but there is no such change in the authority granted by God, except where God accepts our choices for granting authority. (God granted authority to govern this sort of thing to the government, and we have implicitly ceded to the government about it, so God will hold us accountable for obey the governmental authority). Certain rights are retained by parents of adult children such as if the child is in an accident and a medical decision needs to be made and there is no closer legal relative (such as a spouse). In lieu of a legitimate family member, the authority defaults to the primary doctor treating the patient (granted by the government).

God and the government grant different rights and responsibilities over one's spouse. God says a women leaves her family and becomes joined with her husband, and that neither her or her husband's bodies belong to only themselves, but have a type of shared ownership matters (and God always has full ownership over everything as the creator of all), but the rights between wife and husband that are granted by the government defines rights in its own ways, not necessarily in agreement with God.

Perhaps you can see why we (in America, at least) are blessed to have once been a "Christian nation." Our culture has all kinds of authority-related facets that exist as a residual effect. Some countries (like Japan) don't have that residual Christian effect in their culture (one effect being that less than 2% of the citizens are Christian, even though they have been evangelized to for a long time).

 

[marineimaging]

Hm. I don't even like how that is worded, because "please don't" often implies the person has some sort of authority - like they're telling them flat-out "don't run around the water". It's like you're saying to kids that you have some form of authority over them because kids often wouldn't understand the difference between someone saying that and someone saying a blunt "STOP THAT NOW". Authority is authority often in the eyes of a child - children are fearful of adults.

Attitude goes a long way too, it's not always what's being said but how it's being said. "Please don't" can be said two different ways. One, a plead, or two, a command.

Like I said though if an adult said "careful guys you don't want to hurt yourself" it wouldn't be an issue.

I grew up with parents who told me that If I got in trouble from another adult, I was in trouble when I got home. It made me realize that we all have a duty to the integrity of our community and that with responsibility comes authority. To say that another adult has no legitimate authority for the world or the community or the church is to deny Biblical teaching. The elders of the community, of the church, have the DUTY to be the authority according to God. He put them in charge and expected them to behave so. Even they are to police themselves. So, to do nothing while a child misbehaves is of no help to them or the world.

 

[LovebirdsFlying]

There's still a confused teenager inside me, wondering who the heck my authority figures were supposed to be. I come from a highly unstable upbringing, and I'm diagnosed with PTSD as a result of it. My mother (married nine times, not including the live-in relationships she never made it to the altar with) expected me to obey some man she'd been dating for all of a day or two, as if he were my father. And then next year, a different one. If I questioned or resisted, her angry response was that he was an adult, and I was going to do as he says. This extended to giving him permission to punish as he saw fit, up to and including beating. Again, I'm talking about men we barely knew.

It was just mind boggling to me. If I was supposed to obey all men as if they were my father, then what was so special about my father? Why did God single out, obey your parents, if you're supposed to obey all adults anyway?