Do all adults have authority over all children?

Hank77

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If teachers are my authority, and I'm a 23 year old man going to college, then what can teachers command me to do that I must do? What does that authority actually even look like?
If I wish to learn a subject...the professor isn't lord over me, and I can learn in the class anyways.
That prof. can permanently kick you out of his/her class if you break the class attendance rules and give you an incomplete for a class grade. Keep showing up late for class they can tell you to leave, see ya' next class.
You do not have authority over how they run their classroom or the rules that the school set up about class attendance.
 
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LovebirdsFlying

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On the authority of teachers at the college level, where the students are adults and in some cases may even be older than the teacher: There at least used to be a proprietary college around here, one of those "we don't care if you're college material or not; we'll take any student who can pay our high tuition fees" kind of places. I think it's been shut down; it was pretty badly run. I used to see commercials on TV where actors portrayed as students are talking how great it was that the class sizes were so small, and it's so much better than being in a big university with a professor who "could care less about whether you're listening or not."

And I thought, at that level of education, it's not the teacher's job to make the student listen! The student should, at that age, have enough maturity and self-discipline to know, "Hey, I'm paying for this education. If I don't want this to be a tremendous waste of time and money, besides ruining it for anybody else who might actually be here to learn, I'd better buckle down and take things seriously."

When the students are adults, I believe what the teacher/professor has authority over is the classroom and the way the education is presented. Now, having authority over the classroom *does* mean not allowing disruption. Anyone who won't listen, study, and do the assignments will get the natural consequence of a failing grade. No matter our age, we all face natural consequences of our actions. Anyone who is going to cause a problem with the learning environment can and should be booted out of class. But not made to write sentences, or put their heads down on their desks, or sit at the naughty table in the corner, or other things that would be appropriate if you're teaching children.
 
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Near

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That prof. can permanently kick you out of his/her class if you break the class attendance rules and give you an incomplete for a class grade. Keep showing up late for class they can tell you to leave, see ya' next class.
You do not have authority over how they run their classroom or the rules that the school set up about class attendance.
If I miss too many classes, and If I miss tests, I'll just get an F. It's really all up to me personally, and I get out what I put in. Can the prof. kick me out of the class for no good reason? Nope, he is subject to his employers will on that matter. It's more of a business decision, and the prof. isn't an authority over me personally. If I mess up, I'm kicking myself out, or failing myself. It still doesn't seem like the prof. is an authority, since I don't really have to do what they say, just because the prof. is the prof. There's no law that says "Professors must be obeyed or you get jail time". The professor is a servant. He gives us what we are paying for, lectures.
Also, I hope no one is thinking I'm some rebellious student. I'm not, it's just that I don't think professors are authorities over me personally. Maybe they're an authority over how the classroom runs, but not me personally.
 
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2PhiloVoid

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I don't see any reason to think that. The professor isn't my commander, or father-figure. If anything he's more like my employee. Perhaps my professor is an authority on the subject of math, but he certainly isn't an authority over me personally!

At secular, state run universities, like say, Ohio State University or Florida State University, etc., since these kinds of colleges are subsidized financially by the Government, and since the Government is actually paying about 75% of the supposed 'actual' cost of the student's tuition (hence the name, 'state university'), THEN the whole infrastructure of Faculty and Administration feel that they have the lion's share of 'authority' over who has the say as to what, when, where, and how things will be done.

So, if for instance you or I pay $1,500 for a typical 3-credit course, the professors aren't going to look at us as if WE are the employers and they the employees....no, they tend to see it as the other way around since our little $1,500 only represents 25% of the total cost of the education. Obviously, this doesn't sit well with students who are particularly autonomous in their outlook on life, but that is the institutional outlook maintained by state run universities.

Then, even the private universities try to 'hold it over' on students because, well, these are 'prestigious' schools "after all."

Anyway. It's a give and take social situation at each school.

Peace,
2PhiloVoid
 
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Ken Rank

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In your fear of secular indoctrination, you would probably scold a stranger for reminding your child to say "Please" and "Thank you" because it is YOUR GOD GIVEN RIGHT and not theirs, and heaven forbid we open the floodgates and let anything in that you haven't explicitly approved.

Just for the record, I don't have any fear, including that of secular indoctrination. The topic is authority, and God Himself has set certain things in order. It is not up to Hillary's "Village" to raise all of the children, God gave authority to those who procreated to raise their children up according to their understanding of His ways. So it isn't secular indoctrination, it is adults who mistakenly think they have authority over my children that I am protective against. I allow them to be exposed to facets of the world so that they know what it all is and are not overwhelmed by it when they go out on their own. :)
 
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akmom

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Well, I'm a tax payer, so I think the collective of the tax payers pay his salary.
I still don't see how he is an authority over me. He's just a guy sharing information that falls in line with what the state and respective departments require.

What exactly do you think authority means? As a professor, he has authority over his classroom, and that includes how you conduct yourself in his classroom and how you perform on his assignments inside and outside the classroom. He can enforce his authority by removing you from the classroom, or the class entirely, and by adjusting your grades to reflect how well you met his expectations. How is that not authority? By contrast, you as a student cannot demand your professor leave or quit, or even that another student leave class or un-enroll. You lack that authority.

You're suggesting that the only form of "authority" is one in which a person can control and any and all aspects of your life, and enforce it by jail time. That's silly. All authority figures are subject to limitations on what they can demand, and also limitations on how they can enforce it. Even a police officer, generally considered to have authority in society, has pretty strict limitations on how he can use it. All authority comes within a limited scope. Unless it is the military or prison or a parent-child relationship, there is rarely the scope of authority you describe. I'm pretty sure LovebirdsFlying was not referring to total control when she posed the question.
 
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Near

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What exactly do you think authority means? As a professor, he has authority over his classroom, and that includes how you conduct yourself in his classroom and how you perform on his assignments inside and outside the classroom. He can enforce his authority by removing you from the classroom, or the class entirely, and by adjusting your grades to reflect how well you met his expectations. How is that not authority?
Well, how I conduct myself is up to me, not the professor. Professors make plans, and in order to get good grades we go along with those plans, but it isn't authoritative. How I preform is up to me, the professor has no control over that. As for grading, the Prof. seems more like a servant, and the same is true of giving lectures. There doesn't seem to be anything "controlling" over me or any students in that regard. As for kicking students out of class, it isn't the case that the professor can simply kick a student out of class. A student kicks him or herself out by being disruptive, or failing to adhere to policies that were mutually assumed to be agreed on when in college. The professor isn't some tall powerful figure of authority casting a shadow over the class. The professor is a servant.
I don't have to do anything the professor says just because he says it. I only do what I need to do so I can personally succeed.
You're suggesting that the only form of "authority" is one in which a person can control and any and all aspects of your life, and enforce it by jail time.
Well, control is one thing, or the right to control. Professors, from what I can tell, lack that, generally speaking. I go to a community college, and it'd be pretty weird if we had to do something in college simply because a person said so. All of what I do in college is just a business decision, and I have the freedom to do what I think is good enough. A professor is not a commanding officer.
 
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marineimaging

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All good answers so far. This one especially resonates because I do have leftover problems with even my own authority sometimes. In my younger years, I was never allowed to make a decision for myself. May the Lord have mercy on me if I acted on my own and did the wrong thing. Therefore, I was conditioned to wait to be told what to do. That set me up perfectly for a first marriage to an abusive, controlling, drug-addicted man. It was just more of the same thing I was already used to.

As you might imagine, I had a lot of trouble with raising my children. I never could quite grasp the fact that I was allowed to make a decision. Sometimes my family even outright overruled me, such as when I told my children they couldn't watch some TV show that I didn't think was morally fit for kids. Just to spite me, family members would then have a laugh while making sure they did watch it. When I'd object, "Oh, it didn't hurt anything. You're being unreasonable." They'd compare me to my father, who had mental health issues and was reputed to be very controlling and micromanaging. They didn't do that to anybody else. They singled me out for it. Anybody else in the family who had kids was allowed to raise their own children. If those children also weren't allowed to watch that same show, it got respected, and not interfered with. A rule was only unreasonable if I made it.

That marriage is over, I have little to no contact with most of my childhood family, and God has given me a loving Christian husband. Nowadays, I don't work for a living. I am disabled for both mobility and psychiatric reasons, and my husband supports me. As such, sometimes I don't even feel right telling the cats what to do. "Get off the table." "No, you're not going outside. It's raining." And some little voice echoes in my head, "Well, listen to you trying to be the boss. Just who are you, miss high and mighty?"
Soooooo, much of your last resonates in my head too. I can hear my mom.... "And some little voice echoes in my head, "Well, listen to you trying to be the boss. Just who are you, (MR) high and mighty?" And even my own kids later when I would try to be guiding and level headed with the grandkids, "when I told my GRANDchildren they couldn't watch some TV show that I didn't think was morally fit for kids. Just to spite me, family members would then have a laugh while making sure they did watch it. When I'd object, "Oh, it didn't hurt anything. You're being unreasonable." Hummmm, I wonder if we have the same family?
 
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RDKirk

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I see expressed in this thread a general attitude of being stiffnecked and asserting the right to teach one's children to be stiffnecked as well. That is, an upfront attitude of refusing to submit to anyone who does not have the physical power to force submission, which is actually not an attitude of submission at all. A whole lot of people are essentially saying, "I'm stiff-necked and proud of it!"

Yet the New Testament requires up front an attitude of submission, and not just to Jesus Himself. We can split all kinds of hairs about whether this person or that person "deserves" our submission, but that is never an issue in the New Testament. Rather, scripture asserts that submission even to a "froward" master is still expected. The point is: Do you have a submissive spirit--because it also says over and over that God despises a stiff-necked person.

"Oh, but I obey God, not man."

The problem is, how can one really think he obeys Who he can't see when he won't obey anyone he can see? If someone has never practiced true and voluntary submissiveness to any other person, what makes him think is truly and voluntarily submissive to Christ?

So what is the problem with being submissive to anyone who is actually directing the correct thing?
 
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akmom

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I see expressed in this thread a general attitude of being stiffnecked and asserting the right to teach one's children to be stiffnecked as well. That is, an upfront attitude of refusing to submit to anyone who does not have the physical power to force submission, which is actually not an attitude of submission at all. A whole lot of people are essentially saying, "I'm stiff-necked and proud of it!"

This! Some of these positions are rather juvenile. Reminds me of the Key & Peele skit "Turbulence," with a stiff-necked passenger challenging a flight attendant's authority with similar ridiculousness. YouTube link here:
 
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RDKirk

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This! Some of these positions are rather juvenile. Reminds me of the Key & Peele skit "Turbulence," with a stiff-necked passenger challenging a flight attendant's authority with similar ridiculousness. YouTube link here:

"Is it against the law?" That is so much the question Christ gets asked so often.
 
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LovebirdsFlying

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Those people are known commonly as Rules Lawyers. Who cares if it's morally right, or it hurts somebody else? As long as it's within the letter of the law, they'll do it, by gum, and woe to those who try to tell them they shouldn't. There was an infamous troll tracked down, somewhere in the UK, who had been going to memorial sites and posting mean-spirited things about the deceased. He didn't even know those people. When asked about it, his whole stance was, "Did I break the law?" Technically he didn't... but what a jerk.
 
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Daniel Marsh

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I'm not talking about in extreme situations. I hope it's obvious, nobody would expect a child to obey when some creepazoid says, "Get in my car and go for a ride with me."

Under ordinary circumstances, though, how much authority do adults have, simply by virtue of being adults? Teachers, scout leaders, etc., that's one thing, but perfect strangers? Would you issue a command to a child you don't know, and expect obedience? Or would you say it instead as a suggestion or request, but not as a command? Would it make a difference if there is a safety risk involved, IE telling them to stay away from that growling stray dog, as opposed to telling them to watch their language? At what times would you require your own children to obey the word of adults, just because they are adults? For that matter, does respect always involve obedience, or is it possible to respectfully decline to obey? And how long does this continue? In other words, is obedience to all adults still required of teenagers?

When Children are doing something wrong, I do correct them politely.

I say something like, 'how would you like someone treating you like you are treating that pet?' Most people in my Neighborhood know I am a retired Teacher. I am very well known because of helping around the hood. In stores, I do tell children stop running you could hurt someone.

If I see a Child doing something dangerous, I do step in and let them know that is dangerous and how it can hurt them. I do put myself between them a dangerous animal. It is how you conduct yourself that gets respect and listening. In all my centuries on earth, I only had one mother object, I said, "if you want your child playing in traffic, I am still not going to let them do it" and walked away without arguing with her. And, that was the situation. At an old KMart in my area, there was a blind corner that teens would race around in their car. Minutes after I started walking away. that is exactly what happened. I tend to speak with the authority of a grand parent.
 
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marineimaging

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I like that you asked, you listened, you talked, and you cared. I would see our roles as adults with authority being withing the body of Christ (the church) and that we should be responsible in caring for the children in our congregation. And with that comes the necessity to be reasonable and stern, but loving and intelligent in how we discipline as well how we instruct.
 
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