Dispensationalism Refuted

keras · May 8, 2019

This issue of who is the real genetic Israel, has degenerated into a ping pong match.
What needs to be realized by both sides, is that most cannot know for sure as it is God's Plan and He does not make His plans known to all and sundry.

Mathematically, every person alive today will have at least a smidgen of Abrahams genes.
But the Prophesies constantly reiterate that the majority of the people who take part in the second exodus, are those people who are Redeemed, restored to their homeland and their sins are expiated by their long exile. People whom God foreknew and has kept track of throughout the ages. Jeremiah 16:17
Therefore, I refuse to agree to the belief that any and every faithful Christian is automatically one of genetic Israel.
Although Jesus came to save the Lost House of Israel, He made Salvation open to all who would accept it and now all must be grafted into the Tree of life and many from other genetic descents have joined the Israel of God. But the majority of faithful Christian believers, bearing the fruit of the Spirit, evangelizing and good works, is still the Western, Caucasian peoples, the actual descendants of the 10 tribes taken into exile by Assyria, circa 722-716 BC, and spread among the nations, exactly as prophesied.

jgr · May 8, 2019

Jerryhuerta said:
When you make unlearned comments like Hosea 2:23 doesn't pertain to Ephraim

Here is a list of commentaries on Hosea 2:23.

The word "Ephraim" is not to be found.

All of the commentators must therefore be "unlearned".

I'm in good company.

FireDragon76 · May 8, 2019

I'm more bothered how Dispensationalism destroyed the social witness of Evangelicalism in the US and turned Christianity into little more than a fearful cargo cult.

Grip Docility · May 8, 2019

JM said:
A good resource for those battling against the false view of Dispensationalism.
_______________________________________

Dispensationalism

A Return to Biblical Theology

or

Pseudo Christian Cult

"What is indisputably, absolutely, and uncompromisingly essential to the Christian religion is its doctrine of salvation... If Dispensationalism has actually departed from the only way of salvation which the Christian religion teaches, then we must say it has departed from Christianity. No matter how many other important truths it proclaims, it cannot be called Christian if it empties Christianity of its essential message. We define a cult as a religion which claims to be Christian while emptying Christianity of that which is essential to it. If Dispensationalism does this, then Dispensationalism is a cult and not a branch of the Christian church. It is as serious as that. It is impossible to exaggerate the gravity of the situation."

By John H. Gerstner Wrongly Dividing the Word of Truth: A Critique of Dispensationalism

What is Dispensationalism?

Dispensationalism is a form of premillennialism originating among the Plymouth Brethren in the early 1830's. The father of dispensationalism, John Nelson Darby, educated as a lawyer and ordained Anglican priest, was one of the chief founders of the Plymouth Brethren movement, which arose in reaction against the perceived empty formalism of the Church of England. To the Brethren the true "invisible" church was to come out of the apostate "visible" Church, rejecting such forms as priesthood and sacraments.

Dispensational theology centers upon the concept of God's dealings with mankind being divided into (usually) seven distinct economies or "dispensations", in which man is tested as to his obedience to the will of God as revealed under each dispensation.

Dispensationalists see God as pursuing two distinct purposes throughout history, one related to an earthly goal and an earthly people (the Jews), the other to heavenly goals and a heavenly people (the church).Dispensationalists believe that in the Old Testament God promised the Jewish people an earthly kingdom ruled by Messiah ben David, and that when Christ came He offered this prophesied kingdom to the Jews. When the Jews of the time rejected Christ and the earthly kingdom, the promise was postponed, and the "mystery form" of the kingdom - the church - was established.

The church, according to dispensational doctrine, was unforeseen in the Old Testament and constitutes a "parenthesis" in God's plan for Israel. In the future, the distinction between Jew and Gentile will be reestablished and will continue throughout all eternity. The "parenthesis", or church age, will end at the rapture when Christ comes invisibly to take all believers (excepting OT saints) to heaven to celebrate the "marriage feast of the Lamb" with Christ for a period of seven years.God's program for the Jews then resumes with the tribulation, Antichrist, bowls of wrath, 144,000 Jews preaching the Gospel of the Kingdom, and Armageddon.

Then, the Second (third, if you count the preTrib rapture) Coming, the instantaneous conversion of the entire nation of Israel, the resurrection of the Tribulation and Old Testament saints, and the "sheep and goats" judgment. The "goats" will be cast into hell, the "sheep" and the believing Jews will enter the millennium in natural human bodies, marrying, reproducing, and dying. The "mystery church" and the resurrected Tribulation and Old Testament saints will live in the heavenly Jerusalem suspended above the earthly city. This millennium will be a time of great peace and prosperity, with Christ ruling on David's throne. After 1,000 yrs. Satan will be released from the chain with which he had been bound at the beginning of the millennium and many of the children born to the "sheep" and the Israelites will follow him in revolt against Christ.

The King will again destroy His enemies, followed by another resurrection of the righteous, another resurrection of the unrighteous, a final judgment, and at last the New Heavens and the New Earth.

Although premillennial thought has been recorded in the early church, dispensational theology and its pursuant eschatology are new, as even the father of the system admitted -"I think we ought to have something more of direct testimony as to the lord's coming, and its bearing also on the state of the church: ordinarily, it would not be well to have it so clear, as it frightens people. We must pursue it steadily; it works like leaven, and its fruit is by no means seen yet; I do not mean leaven as ill, but the thoughts are new, and people's minds work on them, and all the old habits are against their feelings - all the gain of situation, and every worldly motive; we must not be surprised at its effect being slow on the mass, the ordinary instruments of acting upon others having been trained in most opposite habits." - LETTERS OF J.N.D., vol.1 pg.25-26

The new doctrine was widely accepted in America, due to popular prophetic meetings such as the Niagara Bible Conferences. C.I. Scofield promulgated dispensational thought in his Scofield Reference Bible. Dispensational Bible institutes by the hundreds have sprung up across the continent - notably Moody Bible Institute and Dallas Theological Seminary.

Media evangelists such as Jerry Fallwell, Dave Hunt, Howard Conder, Charles Capps, Pat Robertson, Jack Van Impe, and Hal Lindsey popularize dispensational eschatology today. Most likely you have heard these doctrines taught over Christian radio programs, and yes, from your own church's pulpit, though probably no one defined the theological system as dispensationalism nor the origination as Darby circa 1832.Dispensationalists view the teaching as a return to Biblical theology, after nearly 1,800 years of darkness.

But, since the day Darby began to preach the doctrine, Godly men have opposed.Many books have been published exposing the flaws in the intricate system. Most hack away at the branches, arguing peripheral issues. We intend to lay the axe to the root of the tree."My brother, I am a constant reader of my Bible, and I soon found that what I was taught to believe (by Darby's doctrine) did not always agree with what my Bible said. I came to see that I must either part company with John Darby, or my precious Bible, and I chose to cling to my Bible and part from Mr. Darby." - George Müeller, a contemporary and one time supporter of Darby quoted by Robert Cameron in his book SCRIPTURAL TRUTH ABOUT THE LORD'S RETURN, pp.146-7

http://dispensationalismrefuted.blogspot.ca/2006/05/heresy-of-dispensationalism.html

If you believe in two Covenants, you are a minor dispensationalist.

Dispensation means God works on timelines.

As for a shotgun statement to refute Dispensational theology, it ain’t gonna happen, as Dispensational theology is so widely varied in approaches, that no blanket statement can address it all.

Jerryhuerta · May 8, 2019

jgr said:
God cannot contradict Himself. As the Author of genetics and mathematics, what He tells us through those disciplines cannot contradict what He tells us through Scripture. Therefore, genetics and mathematics must reinforce and confirm what Scripture declares.

And they do.

They therefore qualify to bear worthy witness and testimony to the truths of Scripture.

2 Timothy 3
16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.

It is the scriptures that we are to use for doctrine and to correct and to instruct. Do you read anything about genetics and mathematics? Again, when you make unlearned comments like Hosea 2:23 doesn't pertain to Ephraim I'm gratified to keep the issues confined to the scriptures.

jgr · May 8, 2019

Grip Docility said:
If you believe in two Covenants, you are a minor dispensationalist.

Dispensation means God works on timelines.

As for a shotgun statement to refute Dispensational theology, it ain’t gonna happen, as Dispensational theology is so widely varied in approaches, that no blanket statement can address it all.

Every "ism" which relies on racialism to sustain itself has immediately invalidated itself.

Every variant of dispensationalism does and has.

Every variant of dispensationalism is therefore self-refuting.

Grip Docility · May 8, 2019

jgr said:
Every "ism" which relies on racialism to sustain itself has immediately invalidated itself.

Every variant of dispensationalism does and has.

Every variant of dispensationalism is therefore self-refuting.

Huh?

Semitic Semantics?

And the price of Bacon in Islamic Regions matters why?

Look, this still rings true... “If you believe in two Covenants, you are a minor dispensationalist.

Dispensation means God works on timelines.

As for a shotgun statement to refute Dispensational theology, it ain’t gonna happen, as Dispensational theology is so widely varied in approaches, that no blanket statement can address it all.”

Jerryhuerta · May 8, 2019

jgr said:
Here is a list of commentaries on Hosea 2:23.

The word "Ephraim" is not to be found.

All of the commentators must therefore be "unlearned".

I'm in good company.

Here's a list of websites of greater learned men who have dug deeper into the OT and agree with me.
A
B
C

Jerryhuerta · May 8, 2019

jgr said:
Every "ism" which relies on racialism to sustain itself has immediately invalidated itself.

Every variant of dispensationalism does and has.

Every variant of dispensationalism is therefore self-refuting.

Here is the RISEN SAVIOR BIBLE CHURCH DOCTRINAL STATEMENT at: here

Regarding the theological status of modern day Jewish people Covenantalism is often called “Supersessionism or Replacement Theology.” Supersessionism is the traditional Christian belief that Christianity is the fulfillment of Old Testament Judaism, and therefore the Jews who deny that Jesus is the Messiah fall short of their calling as God’s chosen people. Thus, according to supersessionism, the Jews are either no longer considered to be God’s chosen people, or their proper calling is frustrated pending their acceptance of Jesus as the promised Messiah…. What were promises of land, many descendants, and blessing in the Old Testament to Israel has been converted to spiritual blessings for the Church in the New Testament. Those who hold to Covenant Theology also do not interpret prophecy in a normal sense. (emphasis added)

Supersessionism clearly relies on racialism. Clearly, supersessionist’s perceptions that Israel failed and was replaced is in defiance with Paul in Romans.

I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid. For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin. God hath not cast away his people which he foreknew… Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace…. For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance. Romans 11:1-2, 5, 29

jgr · May 8, 2019

Jerryhuerta said:
Here's a list of websites of greater learned men who have dug deeper into the OT and agree with me.
A
B
C

And not a one born before 1800.

Classic cultic modernism.

Jerryhuerta · May 8, 2019

jgr said:
And not a one born before 1800.

Classic cultic modernism.

Actually, progressive revelation. The problem with supersessionists is that they know little to nothing about the OT, seeing that they believe that Israel's promises were conditioned upon works, which reveals how poorly they comprehend the OT.

jgr · May 9, 2019

Jerryhuerta said:
2 Timothy 3
16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.

It is the scriptures that we are to use for doctrine and to correct and to instruct. Do you read anything about genetics and mathematics? Again, when you make unlearned comments like Hosea 2:23 doesn't pertain to Ephraim I'm gratified to keep the issues confined to the scriptures.

So the genetics and mathematics that God created are nowhere to be found in Scripture?

Then God must have created OT Ephraim without using His genetics.

Matthew 18
21 Then came Peter to him, and said, Lord, how oft shall my brother sin against me, and I forgive him? till seven times?
22 Jesus saith unto him, I say not unto thee, Until seven times: but, Until seventy times seven.

Jesus must have been referring to something other than mathematical multiplication.

We are indebted to BI/RB/BS for these insights.

jgr · May 9, 2019

Jerryhuerta said:
Here is the RISEN SAVIOR BIBLE CHURCH DOCTRINAL STATEMENT at: here

Regarding the theological status of modern day Jewish people Covenantalism is often called “Supersessionism or Replacement Theology.” Supersessionism is the traditional Christian belief that Christianity is the fulfillment of Old Testament Judaism, and therefore the Jews who deny that Jesus is the Messiah fall short of their calling as God’s chosen people. Thus, according to supersessionism, the Jews are either no longer considered to be God’s chosen people, or their proper calling is frustrated pending their acceptance of Jesus as the promised Messiah…. What were promises of land, many descendants, and blessing in the Old Testament to Israel has been converted to spiritual blessings for the Church in the New Testament. Those who hold to Covenant Theology also do not interpret prophecy in a normal sense. (emphasis added)

Supersessionism clearly relies on racialism. Clearly, supersessionist’s perceptions that Israel failed and was replaced is in defiance with Paul in Romans.

I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid. For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin. God hath not cast away his people which he foreknew… Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace…. For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance. Romans 11:1-2, 5, 29

The gifts and the calling are terms associated exclusively with those who have put their faith in Christ: His Church.

Upon whom does God bestow His gifts?

Romans 12:6
Having then gifts differing according to the grace that is given to us, whether prophecy, let us prophesy according to the proportion of faith;

1 Corinthians 12:1
Now concerning spiritual gifts, brethren, I would not have you ignorant.

1 Corinthians 12:4
Now there are diversities of gifts, but the same Spirit.

1 Corinthians 12:9
To another faith by the same Spirit; to another the gifts of healing by the same Spirit;

1 Corinthians 12:28
And God hath set some in the church, first apostles, secondarily prophets, thirdly teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, governments, diversities of tongues.

1 Corinthians 14:12
Even so ye, forasmuch as ye are zealous of spiritual gifts, seek that ye may excel to the edifying of the church.

God's gifts were not, and are not, bestowed upon those of Paul's countrymen according to the flesh who are enemies of the gospel.
They are bestowed exclusively upon God's "all Israel" remnant of His Holy Chosen People: His Church.
To them, and to no others, His gifts are irrevocable.

To whom is God's calling directed?

1 Corinthians 1:26
For ye see your calling, brethren, how that not many wise men after the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble, are called:

1 Corinthians 7:20
Let every man abide in the same calling wherein he was called.

Ephesians 1:18
The eyes of your understanding being enlightened; that ye may know what is the hope of his calling, and what the riches of the glory of his inheritance in the saints,

Ephesians 4:4
There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling;

2 Thessalonians 1:11
Wherefore also we pray always for you, that our God would count you worthy of this calling, and fulfil all the good pleasure of his goodness, and the work of faith with power:

2 Timothy 1:9
Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,

Hebrews 3:1
Wherefore, holy brethren, partakers of the heavenly calling, consider the Apostle and High Priest of our profession, Christ Jesus;

2 Peter 1:10
Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall:

God's calling was not, and is not, directed to those of Paul's countrymen according to the flesh who are enemies of the gospel.
It is directed exclusively to God's "all Israel" remnant of His Holy Chosen People: His Church.
To them, and to no others, His calling is irrevocable.

Under no conditions or circumstances can unbelievers, enemies of the gospel, ever be the recipients of God's gifts and calling.

jgr · May 9, 2019

jgr · May 9, 2019

Jerryhuerta said:
Actually, progressive revelation. The problem with supersessionists is that they know little to nothing about the OT, seeing that they believe that Israel's promises were conditioned upon works, which reveals how poorly they comprehend the OT.

Cultism's indispensable camouflage: "progressive revelation"

Jude disagrees.

Jude 3 New American Standard Bible (NASB)
Beloved, while I was making every effort to write you about our common salvation, I felt the necessity to write to you appealing that you contend earnestly for the faith which was once for all handed down to the saints.

Paul disagrees.

Galatians 1
8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.
9 As we said before, so say I now again, if any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.

keras · May 9, 2019

jgr said:
Under no conditions or circumstances can unbelievers, enemies of the gospel, ever be the recipients of God's gifts and calling.

Did anyone say otherwise?
What you fail to grasp, is that it is the people whom God had chosen, who originally failed to be worthy of their task, but whose descendants; that ARE identifiable by historical, archeological, heraldic and linguistic proofs, are mainly the ones who have accepted the Gospel.
This amazing Plan of God has been successful and we Western Christians are the fruition of it.

jgr said:
God's calling was not, and is not, directed to those of Paul's countrymen according to the flesh who are enemies of the gospel.
It is directed exclusively to God's "all Israel" remnant of His Holy Chosen People: His Church.
To them, and to no others, His calling is irrevocable.

I agree. What are we arguing about?

jgr · May 9, 2019

Jerryhuerta said:
Here's a list of websites of greater learned men who have dug deeper into the OT and agree with me.
A
B
C

Yes indeed.

Greater than Adam Clarke.
Greater than Albert Barnes.
Greater than John Gill.
Greater than John Wesley.
Greater than John Calvin.
Greater than Matthew Henry.
Greater than Charles Spurgeon.

Riiiiiiiiiight.

What did you say their names are again?

jgr · May 9, 2019

keras said:
Did anyone say otherwise?
What you fail to grasp, is that it is the people whom God had chosen, who originally failed to be worthy of their task, but whose descendants; that ARE identifiable by historical, archeological, heraldic and linguistic proofs, are mainly the ones who have accepted the Gospel.
This amazing Plan of God has been successful and we Western Christians are the fruition of it.

I agree. What are we arguing about?

We aren't arguing.

Others are.

Jerryhuerta · May 9, 2019

jgr said:
So the genetics and mathematics that God created are nowhere to be found in Scripture?

Then God must have created OT Ephraim without using His genetics.

Matthew 18
21 Then came Peter to him, and said, Lord, how oft shall my brother sin against me, and I forgive him? till seven times?
22 Jesus saith unto him, I say not unto thee, Until seven times: but, Until seventy times seven.

Jesus must have been referring to something other than mathematical multiplication.

We are indebted to BI/RB/BS for these insights.

I'm still waiting for the scriptures that tell us mathematics and genetics are profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction and instruction in righteousness.

Jerryhuerta · May 9, 2019

jgr said:
The gifts and the calling are terms associated exclusively with those who have put their faith in Christ: His Church.

Upon whom does God bestow His gifts?

Romans 12:6
Having then gifts differing according to the grace that is given to us, whether prophecy, let us prophesy according to the proportion of faith;

1 Corinthians 12:1
Now concerning spiritual gifts, brethren, I would not have you ignorant.

1 Corinthians 12:4
Now there are diversities of gifts, but the same Spirit.

1 Corinthians 12:9
To another faith by the same Spirit; to another the gifts of healing by the same Spirit;

1 Corinthians 12:28
And God hath set some in the church, first apostles, secondarily prophets, thirdly teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, governments, diversities of tongues.

1 Corinthians 14:12
Even so ye, forasmuch as ye are zealous of spiritual gifts, seek that ye may excel to the edifying of the church.

God's gifts were not, and are not, bestowed upon those of Paul's countrymen according to the flesh who are enemies of the gospel.
They are bestowed exclusively upon God's "all Israel" remnant of His Holy Chosen People: His Church.
To them, and to no others, His gifts are irrevocable.

To whom is God's calling directed?

1 Corinthians 1:26
For ye see your calling, brethren, how that not many wise men after the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble, are called:

1 Corinthians 7:20
Let every man abide in the same calling wherein he was called.

Ephesians 1:18
The eyes of your understanding being enlightened; that ye may know what is the hope of his calling, and what the riches of the glory of his inheritance in the saints,

Ephesians 4:4
There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling;

2 Thessalonians 1:11
Wherefore also we pray always for you, that our God would count you worthy of this calling, and fulfil all the good pleasure of his goodness, and the work of faith with power:

2 Timothy 1:9
Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,

Hebrews 3:1
Wherefore, holy brethren, partakers of the heavenly calling, consider the Apostle and High Priest of our profession, Christ Jesus;

2 Peter 1:10
Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall:

God's calling was not, and is not, directed to those of Paul's countrymen according to the flesh who are enemies of the gospel.
It is directed exclusively to God's "all Israel" remnant of His Holy Chosen People: His Church.
To them, and to no others, His calling is irrevocable.

Under no conditions or circumstances can unbelievers, enemies of the gospel, ever be the recipients of God's gifts and calling.

Supersessionists certainly do have a problem with context! (You delude yourself in proceeding as if I’m a dispensationalist, which I’m not.) Paul makes it clear that only a partial hardening of Israel has occurred that cannot be construed as Israel being casting off, confirmed in verses 1-5. Only a remnant will be saved (just as in the case of the gentiles)! Many are called but few are chosen.

And Isaiah cries out concerning Israel: "Though the number of the sons of Israel be as the sand of the sea, only a remnant of them will be saved. Romans 9:27

It is to THIS remnant that the gifts and calling are irrevocable when one maintains the said context. This remnant represents the tribes of Jacob/Ephraim that the Servant, Christ, is tasked to raise when he is made a light to the gentiles in Isaiah 49:6. Judah is the nation that abhors the Servant in verse 7. The tribes of Jacob and the gentiles ARE the church. Supersessionists are for the most part inept in the OT.

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